Christ glorified God as the Rock, not Peter

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I don't know. Could be?

“that you shall set apart to the LORD all that open the womb, that is, every firstborn that comes from an animal which you have; the males shall be the LORD’s. But every firstborn of a donkey... (Exodus 13:12-13)​

The words in green are the Hebrew word peter, meaning firstborn.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
He called Peter the little stone and said on this bedrock I will build my church. The bedrock was the confession, or more directly the doctrine, that Jesus was the Christ.
 

marhig

Well-known member
He called Peter the little stone and said on this bedrock I will build my church. The bedrock was the confession, or more directly the doctrine, that Jesus was the Christ.
I believe that the rock is the revelation that Peter received from God that Jesus is the Christ. And that's how he builds his church, upon that rock, when we receive the revelation from God that he's the Christ then his church begins to build.

So the revelation of Christ is our rock, he is our cornerstone, ready for his church to be built upon
 

Bard_the_Bowman

New member
A name change is not unique to Peter. Yes - Peter was the only one to be named "Peter" specifically - but that doesn't mean anything in of itself.

No. I agree with you that a name change is not unique to Peter. But some names are changed because God changes the person's name. Even that isn't unique to Peter. But when God changes a name...it means something. For Peter and all of the others that He did that for. It basically means they are being given a new and special role. So it does mean something in and of itself.


Saul was the only one to be named "Paul." Sarai was the only one record to be renamed "Sarah," etc. You can't draw from that that he was therefore establishing a papacy for the church.

But the big difference is that God didn't change Saul's name to Paul. Some of the apostles were known by more than one name, too. But God didn't change their names. I think people back them may have been known by their Hebrew or Aramaic name but then also by a Greek name which may have been a different name.

But that is all different than God changing your name.

Jesus changed Simon's name to Peter.

Jesus didn't change Saul's name to Paul.

Peter's role that Jesus gave to Him can be seen in more passages such as John 21. Here Jesus restores Peter after his triple denial....but Jesus also specifically singles out Peter among all of the others to "feed His sheep" and "feed His lambs" etc.

Jesus singled out Peter.

Also, Jesus singled out Peter to receive the "keys to the kingdom of heaven" in Matthew 16. All of the other apostles received a similar authority later....but only one..Peter...was given the keys. Why?

Well, we'd have to look at Isaiah 22 to get some answers to that but basically...in the Davidic Kingdom, there were ministers to the King. But there was only one Prime Minister to the King. Jesus is establishing Peter as His prime minister.


No special role there. He is a rock of the church just as we all are.

I disagree. Clearly a special role and we see Peter acting in it at the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, for example, and elsewhere in the N.T.

He is a rock of the church just as we all are....however, unlike all of us:

Peter alone got the keys (nobody else did),
Peter alone got the name change to rock (nobody else did),
Peter alone was asked specifically by Christ to tend His sheep etc. (nobody else did),

Definitely a special role given to Peter. I don't think that that all can be lumped into "Peter is just like everybody else."

Thanks for the discussion, csuguy. I wish I could continue this with you.

But I have to be offline for a few days and I know how these public threads can get after a few days. So I probably will be out of the loop by the time I get back on.

Maybe some other time.

Peace.
 

CherubRam

New member
In 1 Peter 2, Peter makes clear that THE living stone, proper, is Christ. He also notes that we are like living stones ourselves, and that we, together, are being built into a spiritual house and priesthood. He makes not special mention of himself, but clearly defers to Christ and considers himself part of the latter group along with us - LIKE living stones, but not THE living stone.

God is repeatedly called The Rock, and Christ is repeatedly called The Stone.
 

jamie

New member
LIFETIME MEMBER
God is repeatedly called The Rock, and Christ is repeatedly called The Stone.

Really?

and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
(1 Corinthians 10:4)​

Really?
 

CherubRam

New member
Really?

and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
(1 Corinthians 10:4)​

Really?

For sure Christ was there, but the Old Testament says that God the Father followed the Jews and that He caused water to come forth from the rock.
 

CherubRam

New member
Please demonstrate and document your claim that "Catholics tampered with the Scriptures." Post your proof.

Back to Post #25 above.

“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.” Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

“We hold upon this earth the place of God almighty.” — Pope Leo XIII, Encyclical Letter, June 20, 1894.

“The Pope is not only the representative of Jesus Christ, but he is Jesus Christ, Himself, hidden under the veil of human flesh.” — Catholic National, July 1895.

“The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth.” — Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, “Cities Petrus Bertanous.”

“When confronted with heresy, she (Catholic Church) does not content herself with persuasion, arguments of an intellectual and moral order appear to her insufficient, and she has recourse to force, to corporal punishment, to torture.” — The Rector of the Catholic Institute of Paris, H.M.A. Baudrillart, quoted in The Catholic Church, The Renassance, and Protestantism,p 182-183.

“The church may by divine right confiscate the property of heretics, imprison their person, and condemn them to flames. In our age, the right to inflict the severest penalties, even death, belongs to the church. There is no graver offense than heresy, therefore it must be rooted out.” — Public Eccliastical, Vol. 2, p.142.

“The priest has the power of the keys, or the power of delivering sinners from hell, of making them worthy of paradise and of changing them from the slaves of Satan into the children of God. And God himself is obliged to abide by the judgment of His priests. … ‘The Sovereign Master of the universe only follows the servant by confirming in heaven all that the latter decides upon earth.” – “Dignity and Duties of the Priest,” St. Alphonsus de Liguori, pp. 27, 28. New York: Benziger Brothers, 1888.

Pope Innocent III (1198-1216) wrote: “We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.” (1 Book of Gregory 9 Decret. c.3)

Pope Nicholas said of himself: “I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God, what do you make of me but God? Again, if prelates of the Church be called of Constantine for gods, I then being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be above all gods. Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ.” (Decret. par. Distinct 96 ch. 7 edit. Lugo 1661)

The RC New York catechism states: “The Pope takes the place of Jesus Christ on earth…by divine right the Pope has supreme and full power in faith, in morals over each and every pastor and his flock. He is the true vicar, the head of the entire church, the father and teacher of all Christians. He is the infallible ruler, the founder of dogmas, the author of and the judge of councils; the universal ruler of truth, the arbiter of the world, the supreme judge of heaven and earth, the judge of all, being judged by no one, God himself on earth.”

The title “Lord God the Pope” – these words appeared in the Canon Law of Rome. “To believe that our Lord God the Pope has not the power to decree as he is decreed, is to be deemed heretical.” (The Gloss extravagances of Pope John XXII ***. Inter, tit XIV Ad Callem Sexti Decretalium, Paris, 1685)

“To pardon a single sin requires all the omnipotence of God…The Jews justly said: ‘Who can forgive sins but God alone?’ But what only GOD can do by His omnipotence, the PRIEST can ALSO do by saying ‘Ego te absolvo a peccatis tuis’ [I absolve you from your sin].” — Alphonsus de Liguori, Dignity and Duties of the Priest, pages 34-35.

“Unlike the rest of the children of Adam, the soul of Mary was never subject to sin. “Faith of Our Fathers,” Cardinal Gibbons, pp. 203, 204. Baltimore: 1885.

The Sainted Doctor Alphonsus de Liguori says: “The merits of Jesus, shall be dispensed through the hands and by the intercession of Mary. “Glories of Mary,” p. 180, New Revised Edition. New York: P. J. Kenedy and Sons, 1888.

“God has chosen to bestow no grace upon us but by the hands of Mary.” – Id., p. 180.

“Whoever asks and wishes to obtain graces without the intercession of Mary, attempts to fly without wings.’ – Id., p. 189.

“All those who are saved, are saved solely by means of this divine mother; … the salvation of all depends upon preaching Mary” – Id., pp. 19, 20.
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]Catholics Claim "Keys" To Heaven[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Catholic Church claims That Peter passed on the keys to the gates of Heaven, and that no one can enter into God’s presence unless that Catholic Church opens the gates. The word "Cardinal" means "hinge." The Cardinals of the Roman Church are the “hinges” upon which the “gate,” whom is the Pope, is able to open. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][12th century. Via French < Latin [/FONT][FONT=&quot]cardinalis[/FONT][FONT=&quot] < [/FONT][FONT=&quot]cardin-[/FONT][FONT=&quot] "hinge"][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NASB[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
Mat 4:18 Now as Jesus [Yahshua] was walking by the Sea of Galilee, He saw two brothers, Simon who was called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea; for they were fishermen.

Simon already had the nick name [Peter/Rock] before Yahshua met him. Therefore Yahshua did not name him Rock, but was only calling him by his nick name. That would mean that Yahshua was speaking of the Father being that Rock, which is used often in scriptures.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Vatican cave was a Mithraeum: a temple of the Roman God Mithras[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]"The cave of the Vatican belonged to Mithra until 376 A.D., when a city prefect suppressed the cult of the rival Savior and seized the shrine in the name of Christ, on the very birthday of the pagan god, December 25."
Barbara G. Walker (The Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Paul says, 'They drank from that spiritual rock and that rock was Christ' (I Cor. 10:4).[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]These are identical words to those found in the Mithraic scriptures, except that the name Mithra is used instead of Christ.

The Vatican hill in Rome that is regarded as sacred to Peter, the Christian rock, was already sacred to Mithra. Many Mithraic remains have been found there. The merging of the worship of Attis into that of Mithra, then later into that of Jesus, was effected almost without interruption.


The Book Your Church Doesn't Want You to Read (various authors)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The throne in the Vatican Mithraeum[/FONT][FONT=&quot], upon which the Pater Patrum ("Father of Fathers", the head priest of Mithraism) was customarily seated, was also taken. It is now the throne of St. Peter, though it is adorned by Mithraic carvings and is older than the later Vatican Church. Seated upon it now is the Bishop of Rome, also known as the Pope (from Papa meaning father, late vulgarization of Latin Pater). [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Christian Bishops of Rome pre-empted the Mithraic high priest's title of Pater Patrum, which became Papa, or Pope.[/FONT]
[h=1][FONT=&quot]"oracles" that breathed the fumes from fumaroles of volcanoes before pontificating.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"'The oracle of Delphi functioned in a specific place, the adyton, or "no entry" area of the temple's core, and through a specific person, the Pythia, who was chosen to speak, as a possessed medium, for Apollo, the god of prophecy."

The temple was constructed over an area of rock in which there were fissures and cracks leading from a deep cavern; the fissures allowed vapors of gases contained in an underground stream to seep up through the rock. The Pythia - an initiated female priestess who had undergone extensive training and conditioning that included fasting - would sit in the adyton, breathe the vapors to induce a trancelike state, and prophesize to those who waited to hear her words outside. The prophecies were obscure and cryptic - in fact, one synonym for the word "cryptic" is "Delphic" - and open to very wide interpretation. The gases were "sweet and perfume-y" according to Plutarch - a known statesman and historian, and one of the two Priests of Delphi - and they did not affect the uninitiated in the same way that they would the priestess. Plutarch also noted that the gases were beginning to lessen and dissipate even during his time (in the first century BC.) The Oracle fell out of use in the 4th century AD with the onset of Roman Christianity, and until very recent times the existence of the gases and even the underground spring was in doubt; modern science has revealed that the legend could have indeed been fact.'"
[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Vatican[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]City[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Vatican[/FONT][FONT=&quot]. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The[/FONT][FONT=&quot] word vaticinor means "foretell, prophesy" from vatis "poet, teacher, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]oracle[/FONT][FONT=&quot]".[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]History:[/FONT][FONT=&quot] The origin of the word Vatican is shrouded in as much mystery as the place itself. It was used simply as the name of a hill in Rome, Mons Vaticanus "the Vatican Hill". The Latin word vaticinor means "foretell, prophesy" from vatis "poet, teacher, oracle". This suggests that the original hill was the location of an oracle, a place where high priests communicated with the Roman gods. Thus the name reflects a long history of contact with spiritual powers.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Vaticinor[/FONT][/h] [FONT=&quot]Definition from Wiktionary, the free dictionary[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]From [/FONT][FONT=&quot]vātēs[/FONT][FONT=&quot] (“soothsayer, prophet”).[/FONT]
 

CherubRam

New member
Pope Gregory and Paganism.
The attitude of the Catholic Church toward paganism is best summed up by Pope Gregory the Great, in his words to a missionary: “You must not interfere with any traditional belief or religious observance that can be harmonized with Christianity.”
Not only were the Congregations divided by Gnosticism, but enticed by philosophy and paganism also, and there were geographic divisions as well.
Pope Gregory 540 – 12 March 604.

What were the Pagan beliefs harmonized with Christianity? Maybe the answer can be found by comparing Orthodox Judaism to Paganism.
 

CherubRam

New member
[FONT=&quot]“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.” Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

[/FONT]
 

Cruciform

New member
[FONT=&quot]“We confess that the Pope has power of changing Scripture and of adding to it, and taking from it, according to his will.” Roman Catholic Confessions for Protestants Oath, Article XI, (Confessio Romano-Catholica in Hungaria Evangelicis publice praescripta te proposita, editi a Streitwolf), as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.[/FONT]
Post the URL to this source, please.
 
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