Can man posses a libertarian freewill when his creator, God, does not?

[JudgeRightly]

The answer to your query is a resounding yes.

Yes as in, "yes, I (TheDarkSideOfTheMoon), believe that God, before the foundation of the world, predestined all things (including the lying spirit coming with his lie)," OR yes as in, "yes, I (TheDarkSideOfTheMoon), do not believe that God, before the foundation of the world, predestined all things (including the lying spirit coming with his lie)"?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Who is the individual entity, who's mind conceived, both the lie, and the method to propagate it?

It was not the mind of God.

God is sovereign over the creation and knows all things.
No entity has more depth of knowledge regards the tree of the knowledge of good and evil than he who created it and placed it in the garden.
Of course the minute detail of the complexities conceived in the lying mind of the lying spirit was known, and always known, by God.
That fact is not in dispute but acknowledged, at least in my understanding.

Out of one side of your mouth you utter that God did not conceive of the lie that the spirit uttered, and out of the other side, you say God not only knew of it, but commanded the spirit to do so.

Do you not see the problem?

Positions that are self contradictory are false. You need to reexamine your beliefs.

 

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

Yes as in, "yes, I (TheDarkSideOfTheMoon), believe that God, before the foundation of the world, predestined all things (including the lying spirit coming with his lie)," OR yes as in, "yes, I (TheDarkSideOfTheMoon), do not believe that God, before the foundation of the world, predestined all things (including the lying spirit coming with his lie)"?

Now that you put it that way, yes.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Now that you put it that way, yes.

Which is it? The former, or the latter?

Try reading through the entire post (#41) before responding this time.

 

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

Out of one side of your mouth you utter that God did not conceive of the lie that the spirit uttered, and out of the other side, you say God not only knew of it, but commanded the spirit to do so.

Do you not see the problem?

Positions that are self contradictory are false. You need to reexamine your beliefs.

I do see the problem - you are refusing to accept the inspired words recorded in scripture that reads - "it is impossible for God to lie".

Are you denying that statement is true?
.

 

[TheDarkSideOfTheMoon]

Which is it? The former, or the latter?

Try reading through the entire post (#41) before responding this time.

Hey man its no big deal - you can choose

 

[JudgeRightly]

Hey man its no big deal - you can choose

Hmm... I chooooooose........ Ban hammer.

Bye troll!

 

[Clete]

You display the character traits of an impudent brat who throws a tantrum when his intellectual cowardice is uncovered.

And you teach blasphemy to your church, pretend to be intellectual honest while completely ignoring arguments, present literal stupidity as good doctrine, get offended when someone calls you out on it and then accuse them of doing what you do all day every day.

It is hilarious watching the open theist insisting God must be a liar to support their aberrant view of libertarian freewill.
.

God is no liar! Not in the blasphemous sense you just stated it!! God deceives His enemies. You included, it would seem.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-13

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Notice the dichotomy there? (No, of course you don't.)

On the one hand you have the "working of Satan" with "all "UNRIGHTEOUS deception" and God, in righteous (just) response, turning them over to "strong delusion".

The deception of an evil enemy IS NOT SIN!!! It is Godly wisdom!


Now, let's all sit back and watch to see whether this hypocrite will ignore this argument for a second time.....

 

[Clete]

Rather than breaking down your post piecemeal I'll respond to all your questions and explain myself a bit more with the following rant.

You need to look up the definition of the word rant. You clearly have it wrong.

God is sovereign over the creation and knows all things.

Your definition of the word "sovereign" is also wrong. God is sovereign but it doesn't mean that He's a control freak like your Neo-platonic doctrine teaches.

No entity has more depth of knowledge regards the tree of the knowledge of good and evil than he who created it and placed it in the garden.

LOL!!!!

You literally have no idea what you're talking about!!!


LOL!!!

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was not an evil tree.

Of course the minute detail of the complexities conceived in the lying mind of the lying spirit was known, and always known, by God.
That fact is not in dispute but acknowledged, at least in my understanding.

That is not a fact at all. What exactly was the point of having the conference and God asking the question, if God already knew since eternity past, and indeed (according to your doctrine) predestined and immutably foreordained would be in the mind of the counsel members?

That is not the issue raised by the opening post.

Yes, it was. (indirectly)

The opening post is concerned with maintaining the belief in the words the Holy Spirit has caused to be recorded and preserved in the 66 books of the bible; the bible being the only source of objective truth.

The scripture reads "it is impossible for God to lie"

A point that has been directly responded to more than once, all of which you have intentionally ignored.

General statements cannot rightly be applied to every specific.

Put another way....

The exception proves the rule.

How are we to understand that clear statement in light of the fact that God has always known the connivence of the mind of that lying spirit?

That "fact" is a false premise and it is only Calvinistic Christians that have such a ridiculous dilemma to solve.

That is an interesting question - but it can not be resolved by insisting it is possible for God to lie, when scripture says otherwise.
.

Of course it can because the bible repeatedly teaches that God deceives evil enemies as has been repeatedly established without substantive response from you.

 

[Halster]

It's a tricky question. If we go by that verse, it suggests that God’s nature is fixed and unchanging, which might imply that God doesn’t have libertarian freewill in the way we think about it. However, humans are different, our freewill isn't constrained by an unchangeable nature like God's.

 

[JudgeRightly]

It's a tricky question. If we go by that verse, it suggests that God’s nature is fixed and unchanging, which might imply that God doesn’t have libertarian freewill in the way we think about it.

Why?

Just because God's nature doesn't change does not mean He isn't free.

However, humans are different, our freewill isn't constrained by an unchangeable nature like God's.

If God is free, then the future is not settled.

 

[Clete]

It's a tricky question. If we go by that verse, it suggests that God’s nature is fixed and unchanging, which might imply that God doesn’t have libertarian freewill in the way we think about it. However, humans are different, our freewill isn't constrained by an unchangeable nature like God's.

I assume you're referring to the verse cited in the opening post.

Where in that verse does it say anything about God having "an unchangeable nature"?

Indeed, where in all of scripture does it say anything about God having "an unchangeable nature"?

Revelation 1:18a I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore.​