You're welcome.
Lying being a sin is determined by the context
Lying is a sin in X circumstances.
Lying is NOT a sin in Y circumstances.
Sure you can.
Like I said, it takes wisdom.
If you were a Hebrew observer in the time of that Pharaoh, and you observed the midwives, first in saving the male children alive, and then later, as they stand before Pharaoh, lying to him regarding their saving of the children, would you say that they maintained their integrity by lying to Pharoah?
No one is saying to lie all the time.
Or, as Paul put it:
And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say. Their condemnation is just. - Romans 3:8
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:8&version=NKJV
And:
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? - Romans 6:1-2
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans6:1-2&version=NKJV
See, this is where the legalism is rearing its ugly head.
Being "honest to a fault" is NOT a good thing! (See Paul's words above)
Again, I point out, had the Hebrew midwives told Pharaoh the truth, he would have simply disposed of them for disobeying him, and put midwives in place who would obey his command. That would not be wise on their part, and if we apply your position on this matter, in not lying (lying being evil according to your position), they would have caused harm to the innocent, and brought about their deaths, those of the midwives, and those of the little baby boys who would have been born.
If you only ever speak the truth, and never lie, then the enemy will, repeat WILL take advantage of you!
Being a man of integrity is more than just always telling the truth.
If telling the truth (this supposed 'you shall not tell a lie' "law" that you have set up) will get in the way of doing what is right, then which "law" is supposed to give? The law against lying, or the law requiring you to do what is right?
Let me put it this way:
Symbolic ordinances given to Israel would often come into conflict with other symbolic ordinances and even moral laws that were given to Israel.
Those symbolic ordinances were arbitrarily set up by God (as in, they do not have any foundation in the laws of morality), and because they were arbitrary, God expected the Israelites, to put it bluntly, to, in the cases where these ordinances came into conflict, use their heads, and do what was right, rather than following the law, which would have been legalism had they done so, and the result of NOT doing the right thing was often being instantly killed by God or the people. There are a few instances of this in the Bible, for example, David and his men were on the run from Saul, and came to the tabernacle of Nob, and asks for food from Ahimelech, who has nothing but the showbread, which was only supposed to be used in the Tabernacle, it being reserved specifically and exclusively for the descendants of Aaron. Ahimelech gave David the bread, in direct violation of the law. David, in eating that bread, broke the law. Was what Ahimelech did, "the right thing to do"?
Yes. UNEQUIVOCALLY, YES!
How does this apply to lying?
You (and others) have come up with a law against lying, calling it evil in any circumstance, and that you shouldn't lie no matter what, while also affirming the need to do what is right.
The problem is that your law comes up against and conflicts with the "law" (figuratively speakign) to do what is right in some circumstances. And when those circumstances arise, you would rather uphold your law against lying, and claim it's the right thing to do, when in fact, you are only bringing harm to the innocent, and dishonoring God. It's legalism, holding rigidly to laws that do not take precedence over doing what is right.
The other half of this is that moral laws NEVER conflict with each other. There is never a circumstance where you must murder in order to avoid theft. There is never a circumstance where you must commit adultery in order to avoid bearing false witness.
The moral laws DO NOT CONFLICT EVER! Thus, when it comes to whether one should lie in order to avoid killing the innocent, then CLEARLY "lying is always a sin" (a claim of absoluteness) is wrong, for God's moral commands are ABSOLUTES, and will NEVER come into conflict with each other. Thus, if the choice is to violate God's command against harming the innocent, or to lie, then the ONLY rational and moral solution is to lie! Not because "it's the lesser of two evils" but because lying isn't always a sin! If lying was alwas a sin, then the better option would be to do NOTHING, because we SHOULD NOT DO EVIL THAT GOOD MAY COME OF IT!
Did Ahimelech, in the example above, have integrity, by breaking the law to feed David and his men?
It's not "either you tell lies all the time or you never tell a lie," Derf!
No one is advocating that anyone become a liar.
I'm simply stating that it's sometimes okay to lie, because it's the right thing to do!
Rather, they weren't known as liars.
That's my entire point, Derf!
Lying should not be a regular occurrence, let alone to the point where someone becomes known as a liar!
But that doesn't mean it should NEVER be done!
This is conjecture. We have no idea how many lies the midwives told prior to this.
We don't even know if Pharaoh had had any interaction with them prior to his commanding of them to slay the male children but leave the female children alive.
Hasty generalization fallacy.
Pointing out one example of a bad lie does not make all lying bad!
Evil is evil, no matter how great or small.
You inherently do, by saying "All lying is wrong."
Just replace "lying" with "doing wrong" in your sentence!
"I'm not saying they did wrong in [doing wrong] in the circumstances."
You're literally contradicting yourself, Derf!
This inherently requires that there was something evil about the lie they told. It's begging the question, does it not?
DO NOT DO EVIL THAT GOOD MAY COME OF IT!
Consider:
You're the head of a country, about to go to war (a war in which you are in the right, and your enemy is the evil side). You meet in the war room with your best military advisors, but you know you have a mole within this circle of advisors, and you even know who it is, but you don't want to let the mole know that you know. So you lie to your advisors, giving them commands to do something that you have no intention of making your military do. You are LYING to the mole, and by deceiving him, you lead your enemy into the trap that you discussed with your loyal general before the meeting.
That's what the Hebrew midwives did. They deceived the enemy. The enemy, in case it wasn't obvious, was Pharaoh, because He wanted to have the innocent killed, and wanted them to do it.
That's Romans 6:1-2. That's three chapters AFTER the verse I'm talking about, Romans 3:8.
And in lying to Pharaoh, they were wisely protecting their positions, so that they could CONTINUE saving lives.
Yes, He did, Derf!
It literally says so!
And the midwives said to Pharaoh, “Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women; for they are lively and give birth before the midwives come to them.”Therefore God dealt well with the midwives, and the people multiplied and grew very mighty.And so it was, because the midwives feared God, that He provided households for them. - Exodus 1:19-21
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus1:19-21&version=NKJV
Because they feared God (and not Pharaoh), they lied to Pharaoh about why they were not killing the innocent, and kept their positions, so that they could continue saving lives!
If that's not "fearing and obeying God rather than men," I don't know what IS!
The rewards was "because the midwives feared God," not "because the midwives saved the children alive."
Saying it doesn't make it so!
No, I'm saying that your standard of "lying is always a sin" is legalism, the same kind that Jesus condemned!
And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. - Mark 2:27
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark2:27&version=NKJV
You have placed the law that you hold to, "lying is always wrong" on the same pedestal as the Pharisees placed the Sabbath!
If lying is necessary EVEN ONCE, it disproves the idea that lying is always wrong.
Don't you get that?
If lying is necessary in order to defend the innocent, to do the right thing, then it CANNOT be wrong always, else Paul would NEVER condemn doing evil that good may come of it!