Can a Man Believe While NOT In Christ?

[Samie]

Man NOT saved is NOT in Christ, and while NOT in Christ, man is dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4).

A vast majority of preachers teach that to be in Christ, people MUST first ACCEPT the gift of salvation and believe.

So, how can a man ACCEPT & BELIEVE while still spiritually dead?

 

[Nick M]

So, how can a man ACCEPT & BELIEVE while still spiritually dead?

You have asked this before, and it has been answered. Let you be accursed you filthy animal. You are not here for anything other than to pervert the good news of the cross.

8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. 10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Having believed, you were sealed, That is the order. Belief, then baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ.

 

[Nick M]

And for the record....

3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

 

[patrick jane]

Man NOT saved is NOT in Christ, and while NOT in Christ, man is dead because Christ is our life (Col 3:4).

A vast majority of preachers teach that to be in Christ, people MUST first ACCEPT the gift of salvation and believe.

So, how can a man ACCEPT & BELIEVE while still spiritually dead?

Acts 13:10 KJV -

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You have asked this before, and it has been answered. Let you be accursed you filthy animal. You are not here for anything other than to pervert the good news of the cross.

You are doing that.

LA

 

[genuineoriginal]

So, how can a man ACCEPT & BELIEVE while still spiritually dead?

People are not "spiritually" dead as long as they have the breath (spirit) of life in them.

People in the grave (sheol, hell) are "spiritually" dead , as well as being physically dead, because they no longer have the breath (spirit) of life in them.

 

[turbosixx]

A vast majority of preachers teach that to be in Christ, people MUST first ACCEPT the gift of salvation and believe.

Part of the problem is for someone to become a Christian, "accept" isn't found in scripture. I'm not familiar with any passages telling us to accept anything. If we look at scripture, it tells us how to become a Christian and we can also look to scripture to see examples of how people became Christians in response to the gospel.

Also, "believe" is found in scripture but what it means to believe has been has been sugar coated to appeal to the masses.

 

[Samie]

. . .

Having believed, you were sealed, That is the order. Belief, then baptism by the Holy Spirit into Christ.

Jesus: Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING. John 15:5 NASB

Nick M: Apart from Christ, man can do SOMETHING - he can believe.

Nick tells Christ a better order.

 

[jamie]

Nick tells Christ a better order.

Nick is right, we must respond to the Father who calls us to Christ.

If we respond with belief the Father gives us to Christ.

 

[Bradley D]

One would not accept and believe unless they had hope in Christ. That tells me their spirit is still alive. The spiritually dead (Matthew 8:22) would not turn to Christ. So how could they accept and believe?

 

[Samie]

Nick is right, we must respond to the Father who calls us to Christ.

If we respond with belief the Father gives us to Christ.

Here comes another follower of Nick.

Jesus tells His disciples: "Apart from me, you can do NOTHING". John 15:5 NASB

Nick, genuineoriginal & jamie respond to Christ: "No, apart from You, we can do SOMETHING - we can believe.

As if I hear Jesus saying: Whom are you bluffing? You tell me you can believe in me, so why NOT believe Me saying apart from Me, you can do NOTHING?

 

[Samie]

Jesus told His disciples: "Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING." John 15:5 NASB

Samie responded: I believe you Lord. But when I told them your words, PJ responded with Acts 13:10 KJV.

But Jesus pointed Samie to Matt 5:11 KJV.

 

[Nick M]

Jesus: Apart from Me, you can do NOTHING. John 15:5 NASB

Yeah, and?

 

[jamie]

Jesus tells His disciples: "Apart from me, you can do NOTHING". John 15:5 NASB

The context is the bearing of the spiritual fruit of Jesus Christ.

This is not difficult to understand, to bear fruit of Christ we must be indwelt by Christ.

Why are you playing dumb?

 

[Samie]

The context is the bearing of the spiritual fruit of Jesus Christ.

This is not difficult to understand, to bear fruit of Christ we must be indwelt by Christ.

Why are you playing dumb?

Did you notice this dumb is able to believe that apart from Christ, this dumb can do NOTHING, while you and your genius crew insist that apart from Christ you can do SOMETHING?

Try to think about this, geniuses:

Faith is fruit of the Spirit. Jesus told His disciples that apart from Him, they can cannot bear fruit, and so can't have faith. Are you geniuses better off than His disciples you can bear fruit apart from Christ?

 

[jamie]

Faith is fruit of the Spirit. Jesus told His disciples that apart from Him, they can cannot bear fruit, and so can't have faith.

Then He touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith let it be to you.” (Matthew 9:29)​

These men did not have God's Spirit but they had faith and were healed. Whose faith? Their faith.

 

[Samie]

Then He touched their eyes, saying, “According to your faith let it be to you.” (Matthew 9:29)​

These men did not have God's Spirit but they had faith and were healed. Whose faith? Their faith.

Sorry but irrelevant, I guess.

You need to address how while apart from Christ, you can do SOMETHING, as you claimed. Jesus told His disciples, they can't. Are you better off than His disciples you can do SOMETHING apart from Christ?

 

[genuineoriginal]

Sorry but irrelevant, I guess.

You need to address how while apart from Christ, you can do SOMETHING, as you claimed. Jesus told His disciples, they can't. Are you better off than His disciples you can do SOMETHING apart from Christ?

Already answered:

The context is the bearing of the spiritual fruit of Jesus Christ.

This is not difficult to understand, to bear fruit of Christ we must be indwelt by Christ.

Yes, the context is about bearing fruit.

Paul addressed this further in Romans:

Romans 6:16-22 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.​

The change happened when we obeyed.

 

[Samie]

Already answered:



Yes, the context is about bearing fruit.

Paul addressed this further in Romans:

Romans 6:16-22 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? 17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. 18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. 19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.​

The change happened when we obeyed.

That's precisely the point. The context is fruit bearing. And only those in Christ can bear fruit. But you claim, apart from Christ, you can bear fruit.

Obeying is a human act, doable only by those in Christ because apart from Him, Christ said man can do NOTHING. Yet you claim, apart from Him, you can do SOMETHING.

 

[jamie]

That's precisely the point. The context is fruit bearing. And only those in Christ can bear fruit. But you claim, apart from Christ, you can bear fruit.

Obeying is a human act, doable only by those in Christ because apart from Him, Christ said man can do NOTHING. Yet you claim, apart from Him, you can do SOMETHING.

We must be drawn by the Father and given to Christ. No where did Jesus say the Father could do nothing.