Can a Jew be saved without believing the Trinity?

[JudgeRightly]

I'm having trouble finding the word trinity or even the word triune in our scriptures?

You won't find it. Nor will you find the words Bible, atheism, divinity, incarnation, monotheism, or rapture.

Can you help me find these words in scripture

lain:

since they are So Monumental in the concept of salvation???

Straw man.

No one has claimed that those words are "monumental" to salvation.

Wow, so strangely missing in our scriptures to be so utterly important???
:think:
Paul

:mock:

When you can't even get our arguments right, you've already lost the debate.

The CONCEPT of the trinity is in the Bible, and it is the CONCEPT of the trinity that is important to salvation.

 

[Jacob]

You won't find it. Nor will you find the words Bible, atheism, divinity, incarnation, monotheism, or rapture.



lain:



Straw man.

No one has claimed that those words are "monumental" to salvation.



:mock:

When you can't even get our arguments right, you've already lost the debate.

The CONCEPT of the trinity is in the Bible, and it is the CONCEPT of the trinity that is important to salvation.

Isn't the word rapture found, even though I am not a dispensationalist?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Clete,

All you have to do to understand the book of Job is to read it. Just read it - that's it. Not that there isn't plenty to be gleened from it through deeper study but "to gain a reasonable understaning", all one need do is to read the words on the page. It isn't written in code.

Perhaps you have a reasonable understanding, but such a position does not come from a casual read. There are some important lessons from an understanding of this book, which is considered to be written very early. It considers the suffering of a godly man and it reveals the righteousness of God. This foreshadows the sufferings of Christ and how the righteousness of God is declared in his suffering, crucifixion, death and resurrection. It shows that the sacrifice of Christ as a representative, not a substitute. My brother-in-law spent some years studying this book before he gave his series of addresses covering the subject and published his book soon after. He recommended the RV as more accurate or more helpful in understanding some of the difficult poetry than the KJV.

I haven't answered what?

For example Proverbs 8:29-31 (KJV): 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Was the Wise Woman, “Wisdom” actually there to help God create the heavens and earth?

They believe both.

I have yet to see a simple statement explaining the detail of how he can have the mind of God as a babe, and as a child.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Truster]

They are not always understood to be synonymous.

That is true. Ignorant people wouldn't understand.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings JudgeRightly,

No, we believe both, because both are true. Your opinion has been noted and subsequently rejected. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word. And the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us. Both. No. One cannot have two minds. He DID, however, have two natures, He was fully God, and fully man.

So did he have the mind of God or the mind of a child when he was a child? Did he empty himself of his being God? Yet you claim he was still both God and man.

Omniscience is never explicitly attributed to God in the Bible. God can know everything that is knowable, and He does not have to know something that He does not want to know.

Psalm 139 goes fairly close to an explanation of God’s knowledge, but Jesus states that he did not know the day or the hour, but His Father did know.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Jacob]

That is true. Ignorant people wouldn't understand.

Would you say that it is ignorance either way, whether you believe them to be synonymous or not?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Isn't the word rapture found, even though I am not a dispensationalist?

The word is not found in scripture.

It is described in two places:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:52

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again Danoh,

What did Paul say about HIS transition from HIS Pre-incarnate FORM?
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, WHICH WAS ALSO IN CHRIST JESUS: 2:6 WHO, BEING IN THE FORM OF GOD, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 2:7 But made HIMSELF of no reputation, AND TOOK UPON HIM THE FORM OF A SERVANT, and was made in the likeness of men: 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, HE humbled HIMSELF, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted HIM, and given HIM a name which is above every name: 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 2:11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

When he emptied himself, did he empty himself of his Deity, and as a result when he was a child did he have the mind of a child or the mind of God? Seeing you quote Philippians 2:11, when we bow to Jesus, why is it to the glory of God the Father, and not directly attributed to the glory of God the Son?

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[JudgeRightly]

So did he have the mind of God or the mind of a child when he was a child?

He had his own mind, because he was both God and man.

Did he empty himself of his being God?

No.

Yet you claim he was still both God and man.

He acquired a nature that He had never had before, a "man" nature, whereas prior he only had a "God" nature.

Psalm 139 goes fairly close to an explanation of God’s knowledge, but Jesus states that he did not know the day or the hour, but His Father did know.

Because Jesus is not His Father.

Jesus is a Person, the Father is another Person, and the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) is a third Person.

He (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) is one God.

He (Father, Son, Holy Ghost) is three Persons.

 

[Jacob]

The word is not found in scripture.

It is described in two places:

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
1 Corinthians 15:52

What about in the Greek?

 

[Truster]

Would you say that it is ignorance either way, whether you believe them to be synonymous or not?

No

 

[Jacob]

No

What would you say or what was the purpose of what you said?

 

[Clete]

Greetings again Clete, Perhaps you have a reasonable understanding, but such a position does not come from a casual read. There are some important lessons from an understanding of this book, which is considered to be written very early. It considers the suffering of a godly man and it reveals the righteousness of God. This foreshadows the sufferings of Christ and how the righteousness of God is declared in his suffering, crucifixion, death and resurrection. It shows that the sacrifice of Christ as a representative, not a substitute. My brother-in-law spent some years studying this book before he gave his series of addresses covering the subject and published his book soon after. He recommended the RV as more accurate or more helpful in understanding some of the difficult poetry than the KJV.

For example Proverbs 8:29-31 (KJV): 29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth: 30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him; Was the Wise Woman, “Wisdom” actually there to help God create the heavens and earth?
I have yet to see a simple statement explaining the detail of how he can have the mind of God as a babe, and as a child.

Kind regards
Trevor

Trevor, you're a lunatic.

Whoever has deceived you into thinking that you're a saved Christian is a liar.

"Was the Wise Woman, "Wisdom" actually there..."?

Is that a serious question or are you being intentionally stupid?

I seriously cannot tell!

God is Wisdom, you slobbering moron! It's a figure of speech!


Go ahead and make the inference that John 1 is making a similar figure of speech and cement yourself into the group of other idiots that reside permanently on my ignore list.



YOU CANNOT FIX STUPID!

 

[JudgeRightly]

What about in the Greek?

What about it?

The word "rapture" is not in scripture. The CONCEPT is.

 

[Jacob]

What about it?

The word "rapture" is not in scripture. The CONCEPT is.

What about the words caught up? In other words, will we meet Christ in the air at his coming?

 

[Danoh]

Greetings again Danoh,When he emptied himself, did he empty himself of his Deity, and as a result when he was a child did he have the mind of a child or the mind of God? Seeing you quote Philippians 2:11, when we bow to Jesus, why is it to the glory of God the Father, and not directly attributed to the glory of God the Son?

Kind regards
Trevor

I'm sure you're well aware that whether or not He emptied Himself of His Deity is a very, very old, and controversial subject within Church History.

He Himself did NOT appear to have held that He had emptied Himself of His Deity.

Built into the very phrase "the Son of God" is the concept of His Deity.

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

At the same time, what very often also appears to have been the case was that He temporarily submitted Himself to relying on The Father.

John starts out with His being Independent of but working with The Father. It then goes on to depict Him as completely reliant on The Father.

Which is seen in passages about His being fully reliant on the Father for His wisdom, His miracles, and so on, for He had humbled Himself as a Servant example unto Israel of the kind of reliance upon the Father that was expected of them - a complete reliance upon Him.

He did get His previous Glory back, though...

Luke 9:26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

As for your other quiry, the Father's focus is ever depicted in the NT as His glorying in His Son.

That...is what passages like the one you cited are talking about - to the glory of God in His Son.

John 11:4 When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Nehemiah 8:8

 

[JudgeRightly]

What about the words caught up?

What about them?

"Caught up" is describing the rapture.

In other words, will we meet Christ in the air at his coming?

Christians will.

Jews (who are not Christians) will go through the Time of Jacobs Trouble, AKA the Great Tribulation.

 

[glorydaz]

Greetings again Glorydaz,That's fine. Have you compared Proverbs 8 where Wisdom, as a Wise Woman was with God in Creation? Was Wisdom there as a Woman, and who is She? (One step at a time).

Kind regards
Trevor

That woman fills the book of Proverbs. Makes you feel like you know her....that she might actually exist as a woman, doesn't it? I had an old car that made me feel the exact same way. She died a horrible death when I ran her out of oil.

 

[Bright Raven]

What about the words caught up? In other words, will we meet Christ in the air at his coming?

Seems to be that way.

 

[JudgeRightly]

That woman fills the book of Proverbs. Makes you feel like you know her....that she might actually exist as a woman, doesn't it? I had an old car that made me feel the exact same way. She died a horrible death when I ran her out of oil.

As someone who just listened to Bob's Bible study of Proverbs, this is completely accurate.

This figurative woman is described EVERYWHERE in the book.

Also, RIP your car :chuckle: