Can a Christian lose their salvation

[Hoping]

Roger:
2nd question..."And if converted, why do the things one has converted from ?"
If I was converted from unbelief, serving sin, hate, lust, greed, etc, how can I still call myself "converted" if I return to those killers?

 

[Hoping]

Roger:
3rd, and last question from your post #385
"You don't really put much stock in rebirth, do you ?

 

[Hoping]

Again........2nd time. Please post ONE thing you want me to respond to.

I will respond to your 1st thing said which was.............
"But in chapter 7, he revisits his old life style, living in the flesh and not in the Spirit."

That is simply not true in any way.

The key to understanding Romans 7 is Paul’s description of the two natures of a Christian. Prior to salvation, we have only one nature—the sin nature. But once we come to Christ, we are new creations in Christ, but we still LIVE in the old flesh which has the remains of the sinful nature within it. These two natures war constantly with one another, continually pulling the believer in opposite directions.

The apostle Paul puts into practical language the fact that he is a redeemed sinner who still has a carnal body, just like YOU and ME and our flesh that wars against the indwelling Spirit.

You seem to not know that Paul in 1 Timothy says, “.......
"That Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners of whom I am the chief”.

The personal pronouns in these passages are not just an artifice but a statement of reality of his life after he was saved and the honest evaluation of a man who examines himself in the light of who he is and who our Lord Jesus is and comes to the conclusion that he is a wretched man in need of deliverance. This is not the deliverance from the penalty of sin—that was paid for on the cross—but deliverance from the power of sin.

I'm sorry you can't understand it.

 

[steko]

Creeds are of men, beware of them.

"Creed" comes from "Credo- I believe". "I believe such and such."
Creeds are a concise version of important points of a larger belief system.
You Have stated, "Creeds are of men, beware of them."
That's what you claim to believe, therefore that's your creed... or at least one of them.
So, should I beware of your creed?

People say, "I just believe the Bible".
That is a creed which means nothing to someone who doesn't know what the
Bible is.
So, should one sit down with that person and read to them, the entire Bible or is there an acceptable condensed version?

 

[Hoping]

"Creed" comes from "Credo- I believe". "I believe such and such."
Creeds are a concise version of important points of a larger belief system.
You Have stated, "Creeds are of men, beware of them."
That's what you claim to believe, therefore that's your creed... or at least one of them.
So, should I beware of your creed?

Can you find "my creed" somewhere here ?
Paul writes that "the Spiritual man judges all things."
I agree with him.

People say, "I just believe the Bible".
That is a creed which means nothing to someone who doesn't know what the
Bible is.
So, should one sit down with that person and read to them, the entire Bible or is there an acceptable condensed version?

I don't know if there is a condensed version of the bible.

 

[7djengo7]

I never said I had never committed sins.

Yeah you did, you Christ-hating liar. You've been saying you're a Christian, and you've been saying that no Christian has ever sinned.

Your major premise: Every Christian is someone who has never sinned.Your minor premise: @Hoping is a Christian.Conclusion: @Hoping is someone who has never sinned.​

Which of those two pemises of yours do you now wish to retract? Your claim that Every Christian is someone who has never sinned, or your claim that @Hoping is a Christian, or both?

 

[7djengo7]

Can you find "my creed" somewhere here ?

Well, we can easily find here what you say is your creed. But, we also know that you're a vicious liar, so we know that just because you say you believe certain things, it doesn't mean you actually believe them. And, since you are frequently saying things contradictory to other things you say, it's hard to tell which (if either) side of your self-contradiction you actually believe.

You telling us you have no creed is you telling us you do not believe anything. And you telling us you do not believe anything is you telling us you don't believe the things you say. And you telling us you don't believe the things you say is you telling us you are lying when you say them.

 

[7djengo7]

My own sins

If by your phrase, "my own sins", you are referring to any sins at all, then by it either 1) you are referring to a Christian's sins or 2) you are referring to a non-Christian's sins. So, which is it? To which are you referring by your phrase, "my own sins":

1. a Christian's sins?
2. a non-Christian's sins?

 

[steko]

I don't know if there is a condensed version of the bible.

How much of the Bible do you think you'd be able to communicate quickly when facing execution for claiming to be a Bible believing Christian?
Do you confess Christ before men?

 

[7djengo7]

Men will acts like Christians until/unless they stop acting like Christians.

Please define "act like Christians".

He is one who loves God with his whole heart, soul, might and strength.

So, when you say "Men will act like Christians until/unless they stop acting like Christians," you mean "Men will [love God with their whole heart, soul, might and strength] until/unless they stop [loving God with their whole heart, soul, might and strength]." That's you telling us that men can/do stop loving God with their all; yet by telling us that, you contradict yourself where you tell us that everyone who does not now love God with his/her all is someone who never loved God in the first place.

Not surprised, BTW, that you mindlessly swapped in "might" to replace "mind" in the heart/soul/mind/stength formula, you proud, Christ-hating anti-intellectual.

 

[7djengo7]

Having no new sins is the result of repenting from sin.

LOL @ your meaningless, extra-Biblical phrase, "new sins".

So, what you're trying to tell me is that you (a "Christian") do, in fact, have sins; you just do not have any "new sins"?

That's funny in light of what you ridiculously, hypocritically said to @Rodger, here, about the scope of Paul's phrase "all things":

Were that true, then 2 Cor 5:17 is not true.
"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." (2 Cor 5:17)
If your version of the resilience of the old man were true, the verse would read..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, "ALMOST" all things are become new.

You say you are "in Christ", and you admit that you have sins (recall your phrase, "my own sins"); but you say that your sins are not "new sins". So, I guess since your sins are not "new sins", then your version of what Paul wrote is "behold, "ALMOST" all things are become new."

 

[Rodger]

Roger:
1st question..."Can you not make the connection between Jesus' "fig trees not bearing grapes and grape vines not bearing figs" with "God's seed not bring forth the fruit of the devil" ?
The seed dictates what kind of fruit something can bear.
Those reborn of God's seed cannot be liars, thieves, adulterers, or murderers.

Matthew 21:18-22 and Mark 11:12-25 cover a very interesting story about Jesus.

If we are living in our Christian lives and we are not bearing fruit, we are in essence as useless to Jesus as that fig tree without figs.

It is no coincidence that just as Israel was withering away in separating themselves from Jesus, that Jesus warns us through John 15 that we too are susceptible to wither away if we are not connected with Him. This call to remain and abide is for every believer. We can ask the Holy Spirit to help us to live for God and bear fruit through Himself each and every day. As we think about the fig tree, may it be a lesson to us to seek Jesus daily and live lives that bear much fruit for Him.

Matthew 7:18
“A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. ”

That in no way suggests that a Christian does not sin!

Since YOU do not think you sin, let me ask you a simple question.......“What do you call the bad things you do?”

Now the ESV is right to translate “we know that everyone who has been born of God” — and then it translates the verb — “does not keep on sinning&,” which helps a little bit, maybe. 1st John 3:9 has the same issue:....
“No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.”

The proper understanding is NOT that we do not sin, but that we do not CONTINUE in our KNOWN SIN!

 

[Rodger]

I'm sorry you can't understand it.

It is said that insanity is doing the same think over and over expecting a different result.

With that I say goodbye to you my friend. This is just way too much work for me.

 

[7djengo7]

It is said that insanity is doing the same think over and over expecting a different result.

With that I say goodbye to you my friend. This is just way too much work for me.

Trying to have a discussion with @Hoping is kind of like trying to teach pitbulls how to read English, eh?

 

[Hoping]

Which of those two pemises of yours do you now wish to retract?
Your claim that Every Christian is someone who has never sinned,

That was never a claim of mine.
All men commit sin until they repent of sin and get reborn of God's seed.

or your claim that @Hoping is a Christian, or both?

I am a Christian.

 

[Hoping]

If by your phrase, "my own sins", you are referring to any sins at all,

Yes, the answer..."My own sins"...was to your question of "What sins had I repented of?".
I had to turn from my past sins in order to become a Christian.

then by it either 1) you are referring to a Christian's sins or 2) you are referring to a non-Christian's sins. So, which is it? To which are you referring by your phrase, "my own sins":

1. a Christian's sins?
2. a non-Christian's sins?

A non-Christian's sin.

 

[Hoping]

How much of the Bible do you think you'd be able to communicate quickly when facing execution for claiming to be a Bible believing Christian?
Do you confess Christ before men?

Is there a right or wrong answer to hypothetical questions ?
How much time would I be given ?
Frankly speaking, I could talk about the bible for the rest of my natural life.

 

[Hoping]

So, when you say "Men will act like Christians until/unless they stop acting like Christians," you mean "Men will [love God with their whole heart, soul, might and strength] until/unless they stop [loving God with their whole heart, soul, might and strength]."

That is right.

That's you telling us that men can/do stop loving God with their all; yet by telling us that, you contradict yourself where you tell us that everyone who does not now love God with his/her all is someone who never loved God in the first place.

If they had kept loving God and neighbor they could continue being Christians.
Sin showed they never repented of sin or gotten reborn of God's seed.
Their prior Christianity was a charade.

Not surprised, BTW, that you mindlessly swapped in "might" to replace "mind" in the heart/soul/mind/stength formula,

Yeah, it is a sort of homonym.
And "might" is a synonym of "strength".
It all just blended together

 

[Hoping]

LOL @ your meaningless, extra-Biblical phrase, "new sins".
So, what you're trying to tell me is that you (a "Christian") do, in fact, have sins; you just do not have any "new sins"?

I don't know how you arrived at that POV.
There were past sins in my life before my repentance and rebirth.
Any sins from that point on would be "new sins".

That's funny in light of what you ridiculously, hypocritically said to @Rodger, here, about the scope of Paul's phrase "all things":

You say you are "in Christ", and you admit that you have sins (recall your phrase, "my own sins"); but you say that your sins are not "new sins". So, I guess since your sins are not "new sins", then your version of what Paul wrote is "behold, "ALMOST" all things are become new."

Now you are just making things up.
I forgive you though, as you are just zealously defending what you believe.

I am glad, however, for you touching on "all things are become new".
Some ignore that verse in order to validate their claim that they "still have an old sin nature", or, "sin is in the flesh they will have till death".
"ALL things" eradicates those erroneous beliefs.

 

[Hoping]

Matthew 21:18-22 and Mark 11:12-25 cover a very interesting story about Jesus.

If we are living in our Christian lives and we are not bearing fruit, we are in essence as useless to Jesus as that fig tree without figs.

It is no coincidence that just as Israel was withering away in separating themselves from Jesus, that Jesus warns us through John 15 that we too are susceptible to wither away if we are not connected with Him. This call to remain and abide is for every believer. We can ask the Holy Spirit to help us to live for God and bear fruit through Himself each and every day. As we think about the fig tree, may it be a lesson to us to seek Jesus daily and live lives that bear much fruit for Him.

Matthew 7:18
“A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. ”

That in no way suggests that a Christian does not sin!

Since YOU do not think you sin, let me ask you a simple question.......“What do you call the bad things you do?”

Now the ESV is right to translate “we know that everyone who has been born of God” — and then it translates the verb — “does not keep on sinning&,” which helps a little bit, maybe. 1st John 3:9 has the same issue:....
“No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God.”

The proper understanding is NOT that we do not sin, but that we do not CONTINUE in our KNOWN SIN!

You covered the good tree/seed nicely.
If the "fruit" is sin, from what "seed/plant" is it gendered ?
The devil's.