My point is that only a few could "follow God" 100% of the time before the resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Enoch, Elijah, and John the Baptist being among the few.
Since Jesus' resurrection, we all can "follow God" perfectly
Can a Christian lose their salvation
- Thread starter Bright Raven
- Start date
Enoch, Elijah, and John the Baptist being among the few.
Since Jesus' resurrection, we all can "follow God" perfectly
7djengo7
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You've shown yourself to be a Christ-hating promulgator of anti-Bible heresy; you don't follow God. So, you have no point.
When you walk down the street, do you sometimes misstep? Such as, you misjudge a step, or you slightly trip on an uneven surface, or stub your toe?
(And yes, I'm going somewhere with this.)
So you're saying that Elijah "followed God 100% of the time"?
Because you say so?
And what does that have to do with God saving them?
God said "If you believe in Me, you will be saved."
Righteousness and salvation are the result of belief. They are not CAUSED by belief (that would mean that the one who believes plays a part in meriting his own salvation, which the Bible does not teach; belief is not meritorious).
The problem you have, is that you're asserting that someone who believes can affect that result, in that it "merits" the taking away of righteousness and salvation that God promises.
Salvation is not synergistic.
God alone saves. He chooses to save those who believe, and nothing can pluck those who believe out of His hands.
Accepting the free gift of eternal life is not earning it through works, which are counted as a debt to be paid.
In other words, trying to work for something that is free.
And when they stumble, and lose sight of God, they do. And they do stumble.
Agreed.
You therefore agree that He is faithful and just to forgive our sins.
John writes:
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1:9-10 - New King James Version
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Why do you think anything you do can persuade God to "unforgive" you of your sins, when He has said "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved"?
If someone believes in God, and then they turn away, and are cast away with the goats on Judgement Day as a result, would that not put them to shame?
Paul said, "whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Are you calling Paul a liar?
Or do you claim to be able to look at the heart, when God Himself said, "man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart"?
You seem to be confusing "placing one's trust in God" with "trusting in God."
They're very similar, but it's an important distinction to make.
The former is a one-time event. The latter is an ongoing process. One does not necessarily ("out of necessity") imply the other.
If someone has placed their trust in God, they are saved, but that is entirely a different matter than whether someone is trusting in God in their daily walk, which determines what decisions they make.
Yes, one has either placed his trust in God, or he has not. If he has:
This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 6:19-20 - New King James Version
This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
But you've confused the anchor for the boat, which might get tossed around by the waves, and even sometimes take on water.
So if someone has confessed the name of Christ, they may not be saved?
Why do you think that someone stumbling in their walk with Christ is the same as spitting in His face?
Is stumbling somehow insulting to God? Do you think He's a legalist? Or do you think that God is gracious and merciful, willing to overlook when someone stumbles, so long as they repent?
If someone has confessed Christ, then why would God turn them over to the Lake of Fire?
Are you now going back on what you said earlier, that:
... in response to:
...?
Do you think God would go back on His promise, when "the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable?
Why do you assume there's a risk of hellfire if one has confessed Christ?
But that's what you believe!
You believe that if someone turns away from God, then God will not save them!
One is saved the moment they confess Christ.
This begs the question (a fallacy) that Ananias and Saphira were under the same dispensation that we are, which is foundational to the entire discussion of whether someone can lose their salvation.
Thank you for conceding the discussion!
You are not saved.
Therefore, you are not "in Him."
Therefore, you are not perfect, or righteous.
You are a sinner in need of a Savior!
HOPING:
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 - New King James Version
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
By then it will be too late for you, Hoping!
If you do not profess Christ, you ARE NOT AND WILL NOT BE SAVED!
God has set before you life and death, this day. THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE, that you may live!
You cannot be faithful if you have never put your faith in the One who died for your sins, Hoping.
Saved means "having eternal life."
What do you think it means?
Your unbelief that God sent His Son to die for you, to pay for all of your sins. From your belief that you must somehow maintain being righteous, when Christ Himself was righteous for you!
You are not obedient to God if you do not place your trust in Him. Therefore, place your trust in Him, rather than in your own works, for He is gracious and just to forgive!
You do not fear the Lord. If you did, you would have placed your trust in Him, rather than your own "sinless perfection."
Knowledge will not save you.
Adam and Eve are proof of that.
Only God can save you, therefore, save yourself by trusting in Him!
All of them.
That's because you don't know the Lord. REPENT!
Sure I do.
But I won't have my name erased from the book of life for tripping on the sidewalk.
I can only judge that Elijah followed the Lord 100% of the time from the events of his being taken into heaven.
As the wages of sin is death, and he didn't die, it stands to reason that Elijah didn't commit sin.
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Sinners don't believe God.Because you say so?
And what does that have to do with God saving them?
God said "If you believe in Me, you will be saved."
Righteousness and salvation are the result of belief. They are not CAUSED by belief (that would mean that the one who believes plays a part in meriting his own salvation, which the Bible does not teach; belief is not meritorious).
The problem you have, is that you're asserting that someone who believes can affect that result, in that it "merits" the taking away of righteousness and salvation that God promises.
Salvation is not synergistic.
God alone saves. He chooses to save those who believe, and nothing can pluck those who believe out of His hands.
Accepting the free gift of eternal life is not earning it through works, which are counted as a debt to be paid.
In other words, trying to work for something that is free.
And when they stumble, and lose sight of God, they do. And they do stumble.
Agreed.
You therefore agree that He is faithful and just to forgive our sins.
John writes:
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
Bible Gateway passage: 1 John 1:9-10 - New King James Version
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.www.biblegateway.com
Why do you think anything you do can persuade God to "unforgive" you of your sins, when He has said "whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved"?
If someone believes in God, and then they turn away, and are cast away with the goats on Judgement Day as a result, would that not put them to shame?
Paul said, "whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
Are you calling Paul a liar?
Or do you claim to be able to look at the heart, when God Himself said, "man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart"?
You seem to be confusing "placing one's trust in God" with "trusting in God."
They're very similar, but it's an important distinction to make.
The former is a one-time event. The latter is an ongoing process. One does not necessarily ("out of necessity") imply the other.
If someone has placed their trust in God, they are saved, but that is entirely a different matter than whether someone is trusting in God in their daily walk, which determines what decisions they make.
Yes, one has either placed his trust in God, or he has not. If he has:
This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
Bible Gateway passage: Hebrews 6:19-20 - New King James Version
This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and steadfast, and which enters the Presence behind the veil, where the forerunner has entered for us, even Jesus, having become High Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.www.biblegateway.com
But you've confused the anchor for the boat, which might get tossed around by the waves, and even sometimes take on water.
So if someone has confessed the name of Christ, they may not be saved?
Why do you think that someone stumbling in their walk with Christ is the same as spitting in His face?
Is stumbling somehow insulting to God? Do you think He's a legalist? Or do you think that God is gracious and merciful, willing to overlook when someone stumbles, so long as they repent?
If someone has confessed Christ, then why would God turn them over to the Lake of Fire?
Are you now going back on what you said earlier, that:
... in response to:
...?
Do you think God would go back on His promise, when "the gifts and callings of God are irrevocable?
Why do you assume there's a risk of hellfire if one has confessed Christ?
But that's what you believe!
You believe that if someone turns away from God, then God will not save them!
One is saved the moment they confess Christ.
This begs the question (a fallacy) that Ananias and Saphira were under the same dispensation that we are, which is foundational to the entire discussion of whether someone can lose their salvation.
Thank you for conceding the discussion!
You are not saved.
Therefore, you are not "in Him."
Therefore, you are not perfect, or righteous.
You are a sinner in need of a Savior!
HOPING:
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
Bible Gateway passage: 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 - New King James Version
Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.www.biblegateway.com
By then it will be too late for you, Hoping!
If you do not profess Christ, you ARE NOT AND WILL NOT BE SAVED!
God has set before you life and death, this day. THEREFORE CHOOSE LIFE, that you may live!
You cannot be faithful if you have never put your faith in the One who died for your sins, Hoping.
Saved means "having eternal life."
What do you think it means?
Your unbelief that God sent His Son to die for you, to pay for all of your sins. From your belief that you must somehow maintain being righteous, when Christ Himself was righteous for you!
You are not obedient to God if you do not place your trust in Him. Therefore, place your trust in Him, rather than in your own works, for He is gracious and just to forgive!
You do not fear the Lord. If you did, you would have placed your trust in Him, rather than your own "sinless perfection."
Knowledge will not save you.
Adam and Eve are proof of that.
Only God can save you, therefore, save yourself by trusting in Him!
All of them.
That's because you don't know the Lord. REPENT!
He said He will cast sinners into the lake of fire for their sins, but they continue to sin anyway.
7djengo7
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Does God sometimes misstep, too? Does God sometimes misjudge things, too? By admitting your imperfection, you are contradicting the glaring falsehood you have previously told us: viz., that you are "as perfect as God is perfect":
7djengo7
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Here, you've just admitted the truth that you do not believe God, you God-hating sinner.
1Mind1Spirit
Literal lunatic
False.
A leopard can't change it's spots.
4O years.
Hmm... that's quite the occasion.
Jesus is talking to two of his sheep who didn't hear the prophets including Moses.
They didn't hear/understand until he opened to them the scriptures concerning himself.
Jesus said all who came before him not just the religious leaders at the time.
Neither will anyone have their name erased from the book of life for stumbling in their walk with Christ.
Because that's LITERALLY WHAT GRACE IS FOR!
James says otherwise.
Had you read my post, instead of ignoring it, you'd know what he said.
You don't believe God.
You are a sinner.
You will be cast into the lake of fire for your sins, yet you continue to sin anyways.
Repent, Hoping, put your trust in God, rather than your own merit, before it's too late.
God has changed His mind on occasion.
But I wouldn't really call that a "misstep".
Do you think Jesus died so we wouldn't ever trip on a curb ?
He died so we could conquer temptation, like He did.
In that way we can be as perfect as God is perfect.
Do you think Jesus commands the impossible ?
Thanks be to God for rebirth...eh ?
All the original fleeing Jews died in the desert.
Why ?
Thanks be to God for that..eh ?
You really should check the context of John 10.
7djengo7
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If they sin, they have already been erased.
By walking in the light, there is no stumbling.
Only a true turn from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins can cause their conversion and eventual salvation.
Continued sin, or as you metaphorically call it...stumbling...is the sign of not being reborn of Gods seed.
I couldn't find the name "Elijah" in the letter from James.
Did you mis-cite the author ?
Our opinions differ on that.
You are wrong.
A true repentance from sin will make one an ex-sinner.
Is that what you are ?
A non-sinner who is as perfect as God is perfect ?
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7djengo7
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There, yet again, you demonstrate the fact that you are a sinner, @Hoping. Every time you say that you are not a sinner, you thereby show that you are a sinner, a lying servant of your father Satan. And your reaction to this post will be you sinning yet again, you sinner.
7djengo7
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Where exactly do you imagine you found that in the Bible, you Christ-hating sinner?
7djengo7
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Paul said that he and his some of his contempory addressees were already saved in the first century A.D.:
| For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18) |
He divides people into two groups: "us which are saved" and "them that perish". You telling us that you have never been saved is you telling us that you are one of them that perish; you are thereby advertising that the preaching of the cross is to you foolishness.
7djengo7
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By asserting your heretical falsehood that names have been erased from the book of life, you are admitting they have already been found in the book of life. So, you are thereby admitting that those have already been saved whose names you falsely assert to have been erased from the book of life.
It's no wonder you so hate Jesus Christ, The Logos, as you are so insanely devoted to your war against logic and truth.