Calvinism: You Must Already be Saved to Get Saved?

[God's Truth]

You must hate Paul and John. You hate anyone that accuses you of being a sinner.

You are going to be in the Lord, Lord, didn't I Group. "But Lord, Lord, didn't I keep the commandments?"

You have no understanding of that scripture and I want to help you so much.

They did some works in the name of Jesus, but they themselves never repented of their sins.

 

[Robert Pate]

You have no understanding of that scripture and I want to help you so much.

They did some works in the name of Jesus, but they themselves never repented of their sins.

No, they went into the judgment and presented their good works and obedience to God.

"Lord, Lord, didn't we keep the commandments" You might be able to fool some, but you are not going to be able to fool God.

 

[God's Truth]

No, they went into the judgment and presented their good works and obedience to God.

"Lord, Lord, didn't we keep the commandments" You might be able to fool some, but you are not going to be able to fool God.

No, they did not repent of their sins, they kept disobeying.

Think about it some more.

Refuse to be a tool of the devil.

 

[Robert Pate]

No, they did not repent of their sins, they kept disobeying.

Think about it some more.

Refuse to be a tool of the devil.

Obedience and works are the same thing in the Bible. Both are a work of the law.

"Now we know that whatever the laws says, it says to those that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped and all of the world may become guilty before God" Romans 3:19.

We are all guilty sinners, including you.

 

[God's Truth]

Obedience and works are the same thing in the Bible. Both are a work of the law.

"Now we know that whatever the laws says, it says to those that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped and all of the world may become guilty before God" Romans 3:19.

We are all guilty sinners, including you.

Stop being guilty and repent of those sins you keep doing.

 

[Robert Pate]

Stop being guilty and repent of those sins you keep doing.

As long as you are in your Adamic body you are a sinner. This is why Paul said that you must be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.

 

[God's Truth]

As long as you are in your Adamic body you are a sinner. This is why Paul said that you must be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58.

Paul is speaking about getting a body that no longer decays.

 

[Robert Pate]

Paul is speaking about getting a body that no longer decays.

HOGWASH!

You should no better than that.

Don't you know what corruptible means?

 

[God's Truth]

HOGWASH!

You should no better than that.

Don't you know what corruptible means?

That scripture is about Jesus coming again at it being the time of the resurrection and everyone getting new bodies. It is about getting a new body that will no longer die.

52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”

 

[Robert Pate]

That scripture is about Jesus coming again at it being the time of the resurrection and everyone getting new bodies. It is about getting a new body that will no longer die.

52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”[h]

55 “Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?”

The scripture plainly says that you are corrupt.

"For this corruptible (you) must put on incorruption" 1 Corinthians 15:53.

You are one of the worst kinds of sinners. A deceiver, 1 John 1:8.

 

[lifeisgood]

Right. Is 46:10

"God views Jesus slain before the foundation of the world. The names are written before the foundation of the world." Re 13:8 ~ John Piper

Yes, but the names have to be found written in the book.
"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire" (Revelation 20:15)

 

[God's Truth]

The scripture plainly says that you are corrupt.

"For this corruptible (you) must put on incorruption" 1 Corinthians 15:53.

You are one of the worst kinds of sinners. A deceiver, 1 John 1:8.

The scripture says we will be given bodies that no longer decay that is what it is about. Go study harder.

 

[lifeisgood]

The Truths of Tulip are Gospel Truths. You reject Gospel Truths !

Have you ever answered Tambora yet?

Do you tell your children when you put them to bed that God loves them?
Or
Do you tell them that they might be ones that were born only so God could send them to hell and there isn't a darn thing they can do about it?

 

[lifeisgood]

The scripture says we will be given bodies that no longer decay that is what it is about. Go study harder.

1 Corinthians 15:53 — For this corruptible (sin nature) must put on incorruption (no sin nature), and this mortal (body subject to death) must put on immortality.

How does that come to be? By placing our faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary, exclusively. Nothing else will do.

 

[intojoy]

I'm fine with people saying I was saved before I got saved. It crossed my mind looking back about my own coming to faith at age 5.
Then I studied the scriptures and realized that God enabled my total depravity to hear the call and then respond in faith.
Had God not chosen me I could not be saved. Son.



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[intojoy]

"So then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" Romans 10:17. Which is the Gospel.

Nanja is in direct conflict with the apostle Paul.

According to Nanja faith just comes, no Gospel needed.

According to Nanja there is no Holy Spirit in the Gospel. You just get the Holy Spirit without hearing or believing anything.

And then she professes to be a Christian.

You're bearing false witness


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[intojoy]

Walk me through this a bit:

Did you save yourself? ("No," I already know this and count you a brother in Christ)

Did Christ save you? ("Yes")

How is it, then, that you were saved when 'you' came to Christ, if Christ saved you and not the other way around?


The only thing I'm looking for is that God made the first move,
ELECTION


and I'm sure you also agree with that.



When it comes to the rest, we are talking about the order of things.

We know that God 'draws' us to Him.
DIVINE ENABLING


For me, I keep thinking Saul (Paul) didn't have much choice. God struck him blind. If he was ever going to see again, he didn't have much choice. Maybe enough that you'd call it 'synergistic' at that point.

Mom sent me to church where God ensured I heard the gospel.
FAITH
These were all things beyond my control as a kid. I suppose blurting out "I need Jesus" was my choice, but it was like being led to the answer the whole way that day. If we never see eye to eye, I'm okay, just trying to give perspective on how I believe I came to Christ. Yes, I asked for Him but I felt prompted the whole way, like the Holy Spirit was there setting that meeting up ahead of me and leading me right to Him.

In Him,

Lon

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[Nick M]

Paul warned about those like yourself, who preach a false gospel of works Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 1:8!

Romans 10

13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”


John 12

32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.”

 

[God's Truth]

1 Corinthians 15:53 — For this corruptible (sin nature) must put on incorruption (no sin nature), and this mortal (body subject to death) must put on immortality.

How does that come to be? By placing our faith in Jesus Christ and His finished work on the Cross of Calvary, exclusively. Nothing else will do.

Robert says that no one can obey until we are given our new bodies. That scripture does not say that. That scripture is about having a resurrected body that will no longer decay.

As for you saying faith and nothing else, there is someone more knowledgeable than you who says otherwise, he says that faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

 

[lifeisgood]

As for you saying faith and nothing else, there is someone more knowledgeable than you who says otherwise, he says that faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.

Then Christ died in vain. Yeah, I know, you will not understand. Oh, well.....