Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Talk is cheap! I challenge you to try to prove anything which I said is in error.
Calvinism: Imputed Death?
- Thread starter Jerry Shugart
- Start date
Talk is cheap! I challenge you to try to prove anything which I said is in error.
Denying Original Sin ultimately denies the importance of the Crucifixion.
I don't really need to produce anything other than that fact :idunno:
Because
You call the sin of Adam 'imputed death' whereas the Crucifixion is 'imputed righteousness'.
That's Christianity in a nutshell, bro :chuckle:
'Thinking ahead' isn't a strong point with you all.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
No it doesn't. The Scriptures reveal that a man dies spiritually as a result of his own sin and not as a result of Adam's sin:
"Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away" (2 Cor.3:6-7).
The "death" referred to in this passage refers to "spiritual" death. According to this passage the moral law results in spiritual death. A person dies spiritually because of his own sin and not as a result of Adam's sin. After all, a person must be alive spiritually before he can die spiritually. Therefore, a person comes out of the womb spiritually alive and not spiritually dead.
flintstoned
New member
So why does scripture say that we are all condemned as a result of Adam's sin?
"Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people."
I don't know what made Jerry so livid against Calvinism.
I just recall that thread he made some time ago being particularly mad as hell by the existence of the Reformed tradition
And
We should try to explain the more more complex things to him rather than throw the usual platitudes of Calvinist doctrine.
He hasn't wrapped his head completely around Sovereign Election, that's obvious by this thread and others.
I just recall that thread he made some time ago being particularly mad as hell by the existence of the Reformed tradition
And
We should try to explain the more more complex things to him rather than throw the usual platitudes of Calvinist doctrine.
He hasn't wrapped his head completely around Sovereign Election, that's obvious by this thread and others.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Read what I said on post #11 on page #1 of this thread. Then if you have any questions I will answer them.
Thanks!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
All you can do is to parrot what others have said. You prove that you will not even discuss the fact that a man dies spiritually as a result of his own sin and not as a result of Adam's sin.
You prove that you put more faith in what some men say about the Scriptures than you do in what the Scriptures themselves say!
Nang
TOL Subscriber
Right . . .
Jerry evidences no endorsement (love) of Truth, so why should Truth endorse Jerry?
I don't see that with Jerry
I think
He's embracing the same path as Robert Pate, whose belief is driven by damning other beliefs.
And
That is no path to go down.
Honestly, it's not about converting him to the bias of the Reformation, but rather to broaden his theological standing.
I hate tunnel vision
lain:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
I have seen this many times before!
When people cannot answer the message they attack the messenger. Why don't you discuss the the evidence which proves that a man dies spiritually as a result of his own sin and not as a result of Adam's sin?
Show us that you have a love of the truth.
Thanks!
When Adam and Eve sinned, God was compassionate enough to forgive them.
But not without penalty, no- they were kicked away from Paradise and forced to walk among the fallen world they created.
Eventually, God saw that there was nothing worth saving except for one man and his family- and ultimately for the sake of not ending mankind entirely.
Because Noah was not a sinless man. He was an alcoholic who had many family problems, and who angered a lot of tribes around him with his swindling.
It is when Abraham is accounted by God, through faith, that you see mankind can only be forgiven by God's own sovereign judgement- and not your own.
"It is the faculty of the mind to choose good with the assistance of grace; evil, when grace is absent"
~John Calvin
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Yes, it is those who believe who have their sins forgiven (Acts 10:43). I do not deny that truth.
However, nothing yoiu said has anything to do with the mistaken idea that a man dies spiritually as a result of Adam's sin and not as a result of his own sin. Let us look at this verse:
"But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death" (Jas.1:14-15).
It is a man's own sin which results in spiritual death. In the following passage Paul practically says the same thing:
"What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death...For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Ro.6:21,23).
So we can see that it is a man's own sin which brings about spiritual death. And in order for anyone to die spiritually they first must be alive spiritually. So no one emerges from the womb spiritually dead.
However, the Calvinists teach that the spiritual death of Adam was conveyed to mankind by original generation. According to them a man is born spiritually dead.
Now perhaps you will actually address what I said.
Thanks!
Ask Mr. Religion
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Jerry Shugart's Errors Go Far Beyond Understanding Original Sin
Jerry Shugart's Errors Go Far Beyond Understanding Original Sin
Jerry Shugart Declares Jesus existed as a man before being born of the virgin Mary
In addition to grossly misunderstanding imputation, it is clear Jerry has created some Mormonistic intellectual idol of Our Lord and is going off worshiping it at his peril. Sigh.
AMR
Jerry Shugart's Errors Go Far Beyond Understanding Original Sin
Jerry has even bigger issues to wrap his head around:
Jerry Shugart Declares Jesus existed as a man before being born of the virgin Mary
In addition to grossly misunderstanding imputation, it is clear Jerry has created some Mormonistic intellectual idol of Our Lord and is going off worshiping it at his peril. Sigh.
AMR
Last edited:
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Mr.Religion ran away from the discussion on the subject of this thread with his tail between his legs. So to try to regain face he wants to change the subject in the hope that no one will notice that he couldn't answer the Scriptures which I quoted which prove that a man dies spiritually as a result of his own sin and nor as a result of Adam's sin.
All Mr. Religion has proven on this thread is that he puts more faith in what the Calvinists say about this subject than he does in what the Scriptures actually say.