BRXII Battle talk

[Balder]

Kevin and Nineveh,

You've quoted the same verses to me, but it just doesn't make sense. You say that everyone knows God exists and therefore is without excuse, and yet when "belief in God" shows up in any context outside of historical Christianity, using different names and metaphors to describe the "creator of the universe," you call this ungodly paganism and say that the followers of this divine creator are all going to hell unless they repent and worship YOUR God, using YOUR culturally determined, Biblically based names, images, metaphors, and stories.

If creation testifies not just to the existence of "a" creator, but specifically to the "God of the Bible," I'd love to hear what exactly in creation should lead people to believe in YHWH with the specificity of detail which you require for salvation.

Best wishes,

Balder

 

[logos_x]

No, it is exactly 'like' you're teaching the original lie, "You shall not surely die," re-packaged. It may be 'New and Improved!!!" but it is still a lie.

Aimiel...do the people in the lake ever die?

NOTHING dies in your view. how is that not "you shall not surely die"?

 

[Nineveh]

By this witness and interpretation, people are better off not knowing the good
news.

I can see where you would think that, after all, pagans are "good enough". And being washed in the Blood of the Lamb doesn't really account for a whole lot.

If we share the good news of Christ and that good news is rejected, we are risking
the condemnation of those who reject the Word to eternal torment.

, said the assistant methodist pastor.

Pathetic.

I'm sorry that you find a straight forward quote from Scripture confusing.

It's not me trying to take one example and making it mean something completely different than all the rest. Besides, it's you who continually finds inconsistencies.

 

[Nineveh]

Kevin and Nineveh,

You've quoted the same verses to me, but it just doesn't make sense. You say that everyone knows God exists and therefore is without excuse, and yet when "belief in God" shows up in any context outside of historical Christianity, using different names and metaphors to describe the "creator of the universe," you call this ungodly paganism and say that the followers of this divine creator are all going to hell unless they repent and worship YOUR God, using YOUR culturally determined, Biblically based names, images, metaphors, and stories.

"...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them..."

The verse I quoted is talking about the Law God has written on all of our hearts. For those who have not heard the Gospel, they will be judged by their own consciences.

As far I know the God of the Bible is the only One who claims to be the Creator. All the pagan stories I've heard are something like, the sea & sky, chaos, or a frog, etc.

If creation testifies not just to the existence of "a" creator, but specifically to the "God of the Bible," I'd love to hear what exactly in creation should lead people to believe in YHWH with the specificity of detail which you require for salvation.

"...for since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse..."

The verse says creation gives witness to God. That's why pagans come up with stories about sea & sky, chaos, a frog...etc. They try to fill the gap. That doesn't mean someone steeped in paganism can't realize that the sky & sea really aren't the Creator of everyting including the sky and sea or follow their own conscience to not desire to worship a pagan deity.

 

[logos_x]

Alright, Nin..what are you saying?

Is everyone born of a woman somehow aware of the Gospel...and therefor if they "reject" that innate awareness they deserve to burn forever?

I don't think that the scripture you are quoting is actually saying what you seem to think it means.
I think it is more along the lines of ignorance of the law is no excuse, and perhaps that the order of the Universe being so wonderous that it speaks of something of meaning and not just a series of accidents. :think:

 

[Balder]

Nineveh, I'd like to discuss this topic with you (and Kevin or anyone else who is interested), but I think I should do so on another thread. I'll start something new and will let you know.

 

[Nineveh]

Alright, Nin..what are you saying?

Is everyone born of a woman somehow aware of the Gospel...and therefor if they "reject" that innate awareness they deserve to burn forever?

I don't think that the scripture you are quoting is actually saying what you seem to think it means.
I think it is more along the lines of ignorance of the law is no excuse, and perhaps that the order of the Universe being so wonderous that it speaks of something of meaning and not just a series of accidents. :think:

Alright, what do you think, "...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them..." means?

 

[logos_x]

Balder has a brilliant idea. Wanna move this post to his new thread?

Yes

 

[Nineveh]

Yes

Sorry about that. I saw it had relevance over here too, so I replied. I will reply to your post on Balder's thread as well Did you want to move this part of the convo over there or keep the hell part over here?

 

[Nineveh]

Nineveh, I'd like to discuss this topic with you (and Kevin or anyone else who is interested), but I think I should do so on another thread. I'll start something new and will let you know.

Good idea

 

[logos_x]

Alright, what do you think, "...for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them..." means?

I think it means ignorance of the law is no excuse...or rather, just because they weren't explicitly given the law like Israel was..they are still under a law in their hearts, even if unaware that they are.

 

[logos_x]

Sorry about that. I saw it had relevance over here too, so I replied. I will reply to your post on Balder's thread as well Did you want to move this part of the convo over there or keep the hell part over here?

Oh...well lets move them both over there.

 

[Nineveh]

I think it means ignorance of the law is no excuse...or rather, just because they weren't explicitly given the law like Israel was..they are still under a law in their hearts, even if unaware that they are.

Right. So where do we disagree here?

 

[Nineveh]

Oh...well lets move them both over there.

Balder's thread deserves it's own space. Ultimately of course it will turn back to hell, but let's see how long we can keep the topic of the difference between the Creator God and pagan deities on track

 

[logos_x]

Balder's thread deserves it's own space. Ultimately of course it will turn back to hell, but let's see how long we can keep the topic of the difference between the Creator God and pagan deities on track

Good idea! :thumb:

 

[Nineveh]

Good idea! :thumb:

Hopefully, after 97 pages, it will be nice to be able to agree with you on something

 

[Balder]

I just started the new thread.

The Testimony of Creation?

I don't have cool mod powers, so I couldn't copy everything over there. But it's a start....

Best wishes,

B.

 

[Aimiel]

Aimiel...do the people in the lake ever die?

NOTHING dies in your view. how is that not "you shall not surely die"?

The Lake of Fire is called, "The Second Death," because to go there is a fate even worse than death. Death II is being tormented by flames forever. How is that, since that is what The Word of God says, not death. It is called, "The Second Death," because there is no return from the Lake of Fire for those who go there.

 

[logos_x]

The Lake of Fire is called, "The Second Death," because to go there is a fate even worse than death. Death II is being tormented by flames forever. How is that, since that is what The Word of God says, not death. It is called, "The Second Death," because there is no return from the Lake of Fire for those who go there.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

They never die...it's a fate worse than death...how can it be waht you say here and be called death when they are alive in fiery torment?

What dies?

 

[Balder]

Aimiel, what would your opinion be of a person who throws cats alive onto a fire?