Brit government becoming Nazi-like

[Gary K]

Well at least you had a pleasant chuckle.
Your post causes me to wonder where our Labour Party might fit in to your assessment of 'all being a bunch of leftists'.

How ever did your Republican Government manage with us, I wonder?

Your labor was started by socialists. Every heard of the Fabians? They have always been far left radical loons. They pushed eugenics for decades The labour party has always been run by socialists and the Webbs, Beatrice and Sidney, were very influential in starting it. You know, that Beatrice Webb whose criticism of Stalin's Holodomor was, and I'm paraphrasing, It's really sloppy to allow truckloads of starving Ukrainians to be observed by foreign journalists while they were being hauled away to die from starvation.

What a humanitarian. Her attitude was go ahead and kill as many Ukrainians as you wish, just don't be sloppy enough to get caught doing it.

Brits have been so indoctrinated into socialism for the last 100 years that they are, as a whole, so far left of the entire US, that they are socialist loons and don't even realize it as the Fabians have been the driving force behind it all. A lot of your most famous people have been Fabians. The most radical of all socialists.

 

[eider]

Your labor was started by socialists. Every heard of the Fabians? They have always been far left radical loons. They pushed eugenics for decades The labour party has always been run by socialists and the Webbs, Beatrice and Sidney, were very influential in starting it. You know, that Beatrice Webb whose criticism of Stalin's Holodomor was, and I'm paraphrasing, It's really sloppy to allow truckloads of starving Ukrainians to be observed by foreign journalists while they were being hauled away to die from starvation.

What a humanitarian. Her attitude was go ahead and kill as many Ukrainians as you wish, just don't be sloppy enough to get caught doing it.

Brits have been so indoctrinated into socialism for the last 100 years that they are, as a whole, so far left of the entire US, that they are socialist loons and don't even realize it as the Fabians have been the driving force behind it all. A lot of your most famous people have been Fabians. The most radical of all socialists.

Come up to date, mate. We are where we are now, not back 100 years.
@JudgeRightly got it right when he posted a wiki article which showed that Labour is a 'centre left' party, which leaves Conservatives on Right of Centre, some are far right.

So your funny ideas about far left Nazis (oh dear) being what Brits mostly are, are just gobbledegook.

 

[eider]

At C, on the graph above.

The Biblical position?
Never!

 

[Gary K]

Come up to date, mate. We are where we are now, not back 100 years.
@JudgeRightly got it right when he posted a wiki article which showed that Labour is a 'centre left' party, which leaves Conservatives on Right of Centre, some are far right.

So your funny ideas about far left Nazis (oh dear) being what Brits mostly are, are just gobbledegook.

Brits are socialists. You've been educated/indoctrinated into it for many years. The Fabians created the Labour party as their tool of radical change in Britain clear back in 1884 and they have not reversed course since. They have been a huge influence in Britain for generations. Here's a short list of people who have heavily influenced today's Britain. George Bernard Shaw, H. G. Wells, Annie Besant, J.G. Stapleton, Graham Wallas, Margaret Cole, Charles Marson, Sydney Olivier, Oliver Lodge, Leonard and Virginia Woolf, Ramsay MacDonald, Emmeline Pankhurst, Marx and Engels, and Sidney and Beatrice Webb. And this list even omits John Maynard Keynes who is a major influence yet today as his economic ideas are still taught in schools so that his ideas have carried on into today's economic ideas. And he was a major participant in the Bretton Woods agreement which which has had a played a major part in bankrupting our world, and Margaret Sanger who started all the abortion nonsense by establishing abortion clinics in black neighborhoods.

People still take ideas from H.G. Wells, George Bernard Shaw, Margaret Sanger, Sidney and Beatrice Webb, Leonard and Virginia Woolf, Henry George, etc.... These people had, and still have, a profound influence on British society and morals through their writings. Some of them have had a world wide influence that has done much to destroy our world. The Fabian's entire goal was to "reconstruct society". When a person reads their ideas they have had a major influence in changing this world for the worse.

So, don't tell me that these people were anything different at heart than today's socialists.

 

[JudgeRightly]

The Biblical position?
Never!

Because you say so?

God is a right wing God. His word defines what is right and wrong.

 

[eider]

Brits are socialists. You've been educated/indoctrinated into it for many years. The Fabians created the Labour party as their tool of radical change in Britain clear back in 1884 and they have not reversed course since.

Stop you there.
Wake up.
The Labour Party is not in power!
But the Labour movement moderated over time and attempts to take it back to the left were crushed at the last election with their WORST DEFEAT in many decades.

Labour is Centre-Left now.

 

[eider]

Because you say so?

Because the bible says so.

God is a right wing God.

Because you say so?
The Laws of Moses were about strength in the community, and social values.

His word defines what is right and wrong.

But not in the way that you think of 'Right' imo.

'Extreme Right Wing' is groups like the Proud Boys, or so we hear. They featured in our news this morning, tearing down signs outside churches and aggression.
Surely no Christians are that extreme? Most I know are for community care, and social values. Whenever I think of Christians I think of folks like the Salvation Army, or those Street-Pastors I have just heard about. By the way, they must be strong over here.... I was telling my wife about @Eric h yesterday and she told me that a work colleague and the colleague's husband are Street-pastors. That surprised me.

Anyway, good government cannot be extremist, neither to Left nor Right, I think.

 

[Eric h]

A quote by a prominent Nazie; Hermann Goring.

“Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.”

His policies seem very right wing. When leaders live with the thoughts of greed or fear; then Hermann's quote seems very appealing.

 

[JudgeRightly]

A quote by a prominent Nazie; Hermann Goring.

“Naturally, the common people don't want war ... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.”

Yup, he's a leftist alright.

His policies seem very right wing.

That's because you're so far left of left that he's to the right of you. Refer to my post above.

Nazis are leftist socialists.

When leaders live with the thoughts of greed or fear; then Hermann's quote seems very appealing.

Seeing as greed and preying on the fear of the people are both wrong, that puts them squarely on the left. And that puts his policies on the left, not the right, because they are not right.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Because the bible says so.

The Bible says that the standard of righteousness is God.

Anything that is contrary to His nature is wrong, and therefore on the spectrum above, on the left.

Because you say so?

Because of the definition of "right."

The Laws of Moses were about strength in the community, and social values.

Because you say so?

But not in the way that you think of 'Right' imo.

What I think has nothing to do with it.

'Extreme Right Wing' is groups like the Proud Boys,

Um, no, it's not.

"Extreme right wing," in political terms, at least, is that which is good and just.

Something that Proud Boys, being a racist terrorist group, is not.

or so we hear.

You shouldn't believe everything you hear, especially from the MSM.

They featured in our news this morning, tearing down signs outside churches and aggression.

That's clearly not right.

Surely no Christians are that extreme?

Why do you think it was Christians who did so?
Why do you think it is Christian to do so?

Most I know are for community care,

That sounds like a socialist program.

and social values.

Whatever that means...

Anyway, good government cannot be extremist, neither to Left nor Right, I think.

Good government is, by definition, extreme right, and righteous.

Not what you leftists call "extreme right-wing," but ACTUAL extreme right-wing.

 

[eider]

The Bible says that the standard of righteousness is God.

Anything that is contrary to His nature is wrong, and therefore on the spectrum above, on the left.

Because of the definition of "right."


Because you say so?

But the Standard of Righteousness in my bible shows a strong social community strengthened by laws (of Moses) which they have to keep to. You couldn't build your home as you pleased, there were even laws about that. You couldn't eat what you wanted to. Further to that, the people had to help the poorer folks! Not a charity, a law. Looks like Socialism to me.

What I think has nothing to do with it.

But yes, what you and I think has a lot to do with it. Our Perceptions guide us.

Um, no, it's not.

"Extreme right wing," in political terms, at least, is that which is good and just.

Something that Proud Boys, being a racist terrorist group, is not.

That's your individual view of the World. The rest of the World sees groups like Prouds boys as extreme right wing, neo-fascist, neo-nazi extremely anti-communist thugs. So I can understand why some folks need to move this kind of right-wing extremism somewhere else. After all, you're far right wing, you say, so you don't want to rub shoulders with Proud Boys, fascists or Nazis. But the majority of the World sees these groups as extreme right wing.

You shouldn't believe everything you hear, especially from the MSM.

I don't believe everything I hear.

That's clearly not right.

Agreed. Interfering with religious buildings is just dirt.

Why do you think it was Christians who did so?
Why do you think it is Christian to do so?

A News film of those thugs showed a couple in the foreground with crosses on their T-shirts. I was misinformed by that scene. Agreed.

That sounds like a socialist program.

Well, the laws of Moses look just like a social program to me. How else did the Israelites become so strong?

Whatever that means...

Good government is, by definition, extreme right, and righteous.

Not what you leftists call "extreme right-wing," but ACTUAL extreme right-wing.

Ah! Right and Righteous have no connections.
That's fairly easy to show you.

You feel that a position to the right is 'righteous' or 'good'. Yes?
Now, look at a map of the World. Would you like to be thought of as 'East' or 'West' ? By your way of thinking you are definitely fixed firmly to the 'East' as in 'to the Right'. So you think that 'East' is Righteous?

You just tripped over your rhetoric, possibly?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

For fun I just tagged a few Web items to show how absurd the idea is of us folks in Britain being like 'Nazis' You've already agreed that our Socialist party (Labour) is 'Centre-Left' so that's nowhere near Communism, so let's look at the right-wing mobs, eh? Oh, and your idea that Boris is a lefty is just a screamer.

Nazism
.........................During Hitler's rise to power, it was frequently referred to as Hitlerism. The related term "neo-Nazism" is applied to other far-right groups with similar ideas and aims.

Nazism is a form of fascism,[2][3][4][5] with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and the use of eugenics into its creed.

The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist and male-only political organization
16 Nov 2020 — Several members and a recruit to the neo-Nazi terror group the Base described the Proud Boys as part of the journey into far-right extremism.

And, finally....... Good old Fox News.
NazismSocialism - CSUN.eduwww.csun.edu › NazismSocialism
For several years, the right wing has been equating nazism, the left, and socialism. This is standard propaganda for Fox News ............

 

[eider]

A quote by a prominent Nazie; Hermann Goring.

His policies seem very right wing. When leaders live with the thoughts of greed or fear; then Hermann's quote seems very appealing.

He knew his history .... floored us Brits over concentration camps, or the Americans over race cleansing (the Indian nations). I seem to remember that he only made one mistake in answering the (Brit) prosecution, and that was him, convicted.

 

[Gary K]

Stop you there.
Wake up.
The Labour Party is not in power!
But the Labour movement moderated over time and attempts to take it back to the left were crushed at the last election with their WORST DEFEAT in many decades.

Labour is Centre-Left now.

What a joke. Just because Labour elected a leader that was so despicable no one would vote for them doesn't mean that leftist ideology hasn't permeated Britain for more than a hundred years. The very fact that Labour elected a guy so exceedingly racist that he was seen as despicable by the rest of the nation doesn't mean socialism hasn't been indoctrinated into British society. Tony Blair was a member of the Labour party and he led Britain for something like 16 years. And Labour and the Fabians have been a big influence on Brit society for a long time.

You're so indoctrinated it isn't funny. Britain has moved so far left Boris is just as much a socialist as anyone in the Labour party. I regularly read the British press and the policies his administration puts in place are flat out socialist/totalitarian in nature. You're like the frog put in a pot of water. If you raise the temperature slowly enough you can boil him to death and he'll happily stay in that pot until he's completely cooked. That's what's been done to the UK society as a whole. Socialism has been taught for so long and so slowly that you're indoctrinated and have no idea that you've been indoctrinated. You're like AB. He supports everything socialist in nature but denies he's a socialist.

You and Eric are cut from the exact same bolt of cloth.

I find it amusing that you will deny the influence of most of your nations thought leaders. Those people became famous because of all the influence they had. If you Brits had rejected their thinking they would never have become famous. They would have been discarded in the scrap heap of history and no one would have ever heard of them. Instead they were extremely influential and became known world wide for their thought leadership in Britain.

 

[eider]

What a joke. Just because Labour elected a leader that was so despicable no one would vote for them doesn't mean that leftist ideology hasn't permeated Britain for more than a hundred years. The very fact that Labour elected a guy so exceedingly racist that he was seen as despicable by the rest of the nation doesn't mean socialism hasn't been indoctrinated into British society. Tony Blair was a member of the Labour party and he led Britain for something like 16 years. And Labour and the Fabians have been a big influence on Brit society for a long time.

You're so indoctrinated it isn't funny. Britain has moved so far left Boris is just as much a socialist as anyone in the Labour party. I regularly read the British press and the policies his administration puts in place are flat out socialist/totalitarian in nature. You're like the frog put in a pot of water. If you raise the temperature slowly enough you can boil him to death and he'll happily stay in that pot until he's completely cooked. That's what's been done to the UK society as a whole. Socialism has been taught for so long and so slowly that you're indoctrinated and have no idea that you've been indoctrinated. You're like AB. He supports everything socialist in nature but denies he's a socialist.

You and Eric are cut from the exact same bolt of cloth.

I find it amusing that you will deny the influence of most of your nations thought leaders. Those people became famous because of all the influence they had. If you Brits had rejected their thinking they would never have become famous. They would have been discarded in the scrap heap of history and no one would have ever heard of them. Instead they were extremely influential and became known world wide for their thought leadership in Britain.

Tony Blair?
You don't know what you are talking about.
Tony Blair was the most moderate Labour leader there could have been, almost dead centre I would say.
It's just that you are so extreme right wing that you see any person who is moderate as a commie, I think.

Those Proud boys are right over there on the right as well, with the neo Nazis and neo fascists, all so anti communist that your scale is totally busted.

And @Eric h and I don't even know each other, nor have the same faith, nor know each others politics.

 

[Gary K]

Tony Blair?
You don't know what you are talking about.
Tony Blair was the most moderate Labour leader there could have been, almost dead centre I would say.
It's just that you are so extreme right wing that you see any person who is moderate as a commie, I think.

Those Proud boys are right over there on the right as well, with the neo Nazis and neo fascists, all so anti communist that your scale is totally busted.

And @Eric h and I don't even know each other, nor have the same faith, nor know each others politics.

He is still a Labour party member and leader. So stop with all the obfuscation and disinformation. Socialism is socialism. A member of the Labour party is a member of the Labour party.

I get a chuckle out of your response to the fact that the very best known thought leaders in your nation have been Fabian socialists for a long, long time. And then you try to deny that socialism is widespread in Britain. You Brits have followed Fabian socialists for almost 140 years and yet you deny they are a major influence on the British public and a major influence in the political arena. Maybe you ought to read more of your own nation's history. It seems I know a lot more about it then you do. But then I've been a history buff for 50+ years. By the time I was 10 I was reading history on a very regular basis.

When you don't know your history you have no idea where you are heading, and it's very apparent you have no idea of your nations history so you have no idea where you are going.

 

[eider]

He is still a Labour party member and leader. So stop with all the obfuscation and disinformation. Socialism is socialism. A member of the Labour party is a member of the Labour party.

I get a chuckle out of your response to the fact that the very best known thought leaders in your nation have been Fabian socialists for a long, long time. And then you try to deny that socialism is widespread in Britain. You Brits have followed Fabian socialists for almost 140 years and yet you deny they are a major influence on the British public and a major influence in the political arena. Maybe you ought to read more of your own nation's history. It seems I know a lot more about it then you do. But then I've been a history buff for 50+ years. By the time I was 10 I was reading history on a very regular basis.

When you don't know your history you have no idea where you are heading, and it's very apparent you have no idea of your nations history so you have no idea where you are going.

Wrong.
Tony Blair was so moderate as to be almost dead centre of the political spectrum.
He was more aggressively against Mr Corbyn than any other politician, I reckon.
Mr Corbyn the most left Labour politician that the supporters elevated to party leader, and because of that Labour suffered the worst election defeat in my lifetime, probably in history.
Si much for your very strange ideas about Brits being extreme Left. That's just very strange.

Don't forget..... You are so far extreme right imo that you do have a very distorted view of other countries' politics, I think.

 

[Eric h]

It seems I know a lot more about it then you do. But then I've been a history buff for 50+ years.

ok

Tony Blair was a member of the Labour party and he led Britain for something like 16 years.

Tony Blair was prime minister for ten years. It helps to be accurate if you are going to make claims.

 

[eider]

ok

Tony Blair was prime minister for ten years. It helps to be accurate if you are going to make claims.

Hello Eric....... you sent the above to freeloader.
The extreme Right Wing folks here think that Old Etonian Boris is a Leftie!!
So they must believe that 'middle road moderate' Tony Blair was to the left of Lenin. Heaven knows where they think Mr Corbyn is/was......

It's coming clearer to me now. The extreme-right links the words 'Right' in the political spectrum to the bible's 'Righteous' so if you are a 'solid' conservative then you are 'with God' and if you are anything to the left of that then you are 'with Satan'...... that's what it's beginning to look like.

 

[Gary K]

Stop you there.
Wake up.
The Labour Party is not in power!
But the Labour movement moderated over time and attempts to take it back to the left were crushed at the last election with their WORST DEFEAT in many decades.

Labour is Centre-Left now.

Your interpretation of events and the power of the Labour party to influence British society is so wrong it's not funny. It's plain old ignorance of the facts of history.

Here's a short list of what the Labour party has done in Britain:

In 1945 the 203 Fabians out of the 394 elected to the House of Commons were this time in power.

The triumphant Labor Government succeeded in nationalizing:

1. The bank of England

2. Cables and wireless

3. Civil aviation

4. Transportation

5. Coal mines

6 Electricity

7. Gas

8. Medical Services.

THIS LITTLE BAND OF PROPHETS: THE BRITISH FABIANS

freerepublic.com

Those changes, clear back in 1945 have shaped British society for the last 75 years. They have become completely accepted British policy and they affect the everyday life of every Brit. You accept them as just a fact of British government and society. But they wouldn't be there except for Fabian influence.

Your ignorance of your own nation and what has shaped it is quite amazing. Just because socialism has become far more radicalized in the last 75 years doesn't mean that it's influence doesn't control every aspect of your lives and has been doing that for longer than you've been alive. That's why you see it as normal and central to your political arena. It's not normal and it's very socialistic. Socialism is shaping your every thought and idea as to what is normal and you are so oblivious to it all you argue against the very idea that you nation is completely socialistic.

 

[Arthur Brain]

But the Standard of Righteousness in my bible shows a strong social community strengthened by laws (of Moses) which they have to keep to. You couldn't build your home as you pleased, there were even laws about that. You couldn't eat what you wanted to. Further to that, the people had to help the poorer folks! Not a charity, a law. Looks like Socialism to me.

But yes, what you and I think has a lot to do with it. Our Perceptions guide us.


That's your individual view of the World. The rest of the World sees groups like Prouds boys as extreme right wing, neo-fascist, neo-nazi extremely anti-communist thugs. So I can understand why some folks need to move this kind of right-wing extremism somewhere else. After all, you're far right wing, you say, so you don't want to rub shoulders with Proud Boys, fascists or Nazis. But the majority of the World sees these groups as extreme right wing.

I don't believe everything I hear.

Agreed. Interfering with religious buildings is just dirt.

A News film of those thugs showed a couple in the foreground with crosses on their T-shirts. I was misinformed by that scene. Agreed.

Well, the laws of Moses look just like a social program to me. How else did the Israelites become so strong?

Ah! Right and Righteous have no connections.
That's fairly easy to show you.

You feel that a position to the right is 'righteous' or 'good'. Yes?
Now, look at a map of the World. Would you like to be thought of as 'East' or 'West' ? By your way of thinking you are definitely fixed firmly to the 'East' as in 'to the Right'. So you think that 'East' is Righteous?

You just tripped over your rhetoric, possibly?

--------------------------------------------------------------------

For fun I just tagged a few Web items to show how absurd the idea is of us folks in Britain being like 'Nazis' You've already agreed that our Socialist party (Labour) is 'Centre-Left' so that's nowhere near Communism, so let's look at the right-wing mobs, eh? Oh, and your idea that Boris is a lefty is just a screamer.

Nazism
.........................During Hitler's rise to power, it was frequently referred to as Hitlerism. The related term "neo-Nazism" is applied to other far-right groups with similar ideas and aims.

Nazism is a form of fascism,[2][3][4][5] with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, scientific racism, and the use of eugenics into its creed.

The Proud Boys is a far-right, neo-fascist and male-only political organization
16 Nov 2020 — Several members and a recruit to the neo-Nazi terror group the Base described the Proud Boys as part of the journey into far-right extremism.

And, finally....... Good old Fox News.
NazismSocialism - CSUN.eduwww.csun.edu › NazismSocialism
For several years, the right wing has been equating nazism, the left, and socialism. This is standard propaganda for Fox News ............

It really is kinda 'funny' to see a thread about how Britain is becoming "Nazi like" in some respects isn't it? I've read a fair few posts here that equate Nazism with "the left" and obviously that isn't true and it's equally true to say that it isn't "conservative" either. Nazi ideology is on the extreme, far right of the 'political scale' so I've no wish to insult conservatives or right wingers with such silly shenanigans.

Then again, those on the extreme far right have said that we live in a country that is on the verge of being subjugated to Muslim rule and Sharia law etc in the past. You worried about that Eider? Yeh, me neither.

The measures we're having at the moment are far from enjoyable but do you consider we're being "herded into a pen" or some such with this pandemic?