ECT Born of water vs. born of the spirit

[SaulToPaul 2]

No.

You said different to me.

Jesus would not say to Nicodemus that he must be born of his mother and of the Spirit.

Jesus had already said no to that.

LA

John explains born of water:

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Your obsession with water baptism (like some's obsession with circumcision in Acts) keeps you from trusting the Lord.

 

[DAN P]

Hi and 1 Peter 1:23 is for today , explain 2 Peter 2:9 and how can a person be BORN AGAIN ??

DAN P

 

[jamie]

John explains born of water:

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Is Spirit invisible?

 

[DAN P]

Is Spirit invisible?

Hi and Matt 18:10 that angels behold the FACE of the Father , which is in heaven !!

dan p

 

[jamie]

Hi and Matt 18:10 that angels behold the FACE of the Father , which is in heaven !!

Angels exist in the spiritual realm as spirit beings.

And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits and His ministers a flame of fire.” (Hebrews 1:7 NKJV)​

 

[Nick M]

How can a man be born of water after he has already been born from his mothers womb.

How can you eat if you are eating? You are an imbecile. Really.

Born of water is born of the womb. That which is flesh is flesh, that which is Spirit is Spirit.

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The answer is right there. Only one is born again as of now.

 

[jamie]

Born of water is born of the womb.

Born of water through baptism by the Holy Spirit pictures death, burial, resurrection. Jesus died for us and he expects us to do the same by water, a symbol of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."
(John 4:13-14 NKJV)


On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:38-39 NKJV)
​

 

[DAN P]

Born of water through baptism by the Holy Spirit pictures death, burial, resurrection. Jesus died for us and he expects us to do the same by water, a symbol of the Holy Spirit.

Jesus answered and said to her, "Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life."
(John 4:13-14 NKJV)


On the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”

But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. (John 7:38-39 NKJV)
​

Hi and the CONTEXT of verse 13 is in the FUTURE TENSE and the Present Tense speaks to that period that Jesus was speaking to them !!:rotfl::rotfl:

dan p

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John explains born of water:

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Your obsession with water baptism (like some's obsession with circumcision in Acts) keeps you from trusting the Lord.

You read it wrong.

Jesus was only saying born of the Spirit is not being born of the flesh as in natural birth.

He did not say the water referred to natural birth.





Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

How can you eat if you are eating? You are an imbecile. Really.

Born of water is born of the womb. That which is flesh is flesh, that which is Spirit is Spirit.

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The answer is right there. Only one is born again as of now.

Obviously you are not.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

You read it wrong.

Jesus was only saying born of the Spirit is not being born of the flesh as in natural birth.

He did not say the water referred to natural birth.





Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

LA

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

You read it wrong.

You read it wrong.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

again,

Jesus was only saying born of the Spirit is not being born of the flesh as in natural birth.

He did not say the water referred to natural birth.





Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

LA

 

[jamie]

He did not say the water referred to natural birth.

Right. Water symbolizes the Holy Spirit and baptism symbolizes the first resurrection at the manifestation of Jesus Christ when we are immersed in the Holy Spirit.

 

[oatmeal]

No.

You said different to me.

Jesus would not say to Nicodemus that he must be born of his mother and of the Spirit.

Jesus had already said no to that.

LA

Unless you are a living human being, someone born of his mother, there is no salvation or anything else available to you.

It seems like a ridiculous statement to make, that is, that you must be born of your mother, but that is an absolute truth.

Even as you must be born of your mother to receive from your parents and to enjoy fellowship with your parents and others, even so you must be born again to receive salvation and fellowship with God and those who likewise fellowship with God.

I John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Until a person is a child in his earthly family, he has no standing, let alone fellowship with his earthly family

Until a person is a son of God, they have no standing, let alone fellowship with God and his family

 

[oatmeal]

Hi and 1 Peter 1:23 is for today , explain 2 Peter 2:9 and how can a person be BORN AGAIN ??

DAN P

Yes, I Peter 1:23 is for today.

I John 4:13 tells us what that incorruptible seed is, it is that which God gave to us of, His spirit.

As for your question, did not Nicodemus ask that same question?

What did Jesus tell him?

John 3

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

That is how Jesus answered Nic's question.

In the gospel, while Jesus' ministry for our redemption and salvation was a work in progress, the answer would be different than after he finished his works.

Today, in this age of grace, the gift of salvation/eternal life/incorruptible seed is received by doing Romans 10:9-10

 

[oatmeal]

How can you eat if you are eating? You are an imbecile. Really.

Born of water is born of the womb. That which is flesh is flesh, that which is Spirit is Spirit.

8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

The answer is right there. Only one is born again as of now.

Born of water is born of the womb. That which is flesh is flesh, that which is Spirit is Spirit.

Yes, that is what the scripture tells us.

 

[oatmeal]

Unfortunately I gave you credit for being familiar with scripture. Are you a novice like me?

Romans 4:3 a

"What saith the scripture?"

When we ask that question, then we are on the road to learning God's answers

Until then, all we have is guesswork.

When Jesus Christ ministered in his hometown of Nazareth,

Did he share his experiences, his upbringing, his excuses, his opinions?

Nope, he read from scripture from Isaiah and declared his commitment to it.

Luke 4:16-21

16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

17 And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,

18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

20 And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.

21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

That is an example worth following.

 

[jamie]

Unless you are a living human being, someone born of his mother, there is no salvation or anything else available to you.

It seems like a ridiculous statement to make, that is, that you must be born of your mother, but that is an absolute truth.

Being born as a human is a given. Jesus was not talking to people that don't exist. People that don't exist are not being offered God's kingdom.

Jesus is speaking of spiritual birth by water and the Spirit for people living in the physical realm, meaning they already exist.

 

[serpentdove]

[Jn 3:3]

You need to be born again. Do that. :juggle:

"Jn 3:3 born again. The phrase lit. means “born from above.” Jesus answered a question that Nicodemus does not even ask. He read Nicodemus’ heart and came to the very core of his problem, i.e., the need for spiritual transformation or regeneration produced by the Holy Spirit. New birth is an act of God whereby eternal life is imparted to the believer (2 Cor. 5:17; Titus 3:5; 1 Pet. 1:3; 1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4, 18). Chapter 1:12, 13 indicates that “born again” also carries the idea “to become children of God” through trust in the name of the incarnate Word. cannot see the kingdom of God. In context, this is primarily a reference to participation in the millennial kingdom at the end of the age, fervently anticipated by the Pharisees and other Jews. Since the Pharisees were supernaturalists, they naturally and eagerly expected the coming of the prophesied resurrection of the saints and institution of the messianic kingdom (Is. 11:1–16; Dan. 12:2). Their problem was that they thought that mere physical lineage and keeping of religious externals qualified them for entrance into the kingdom rather than the needed spiritual transformation which Jesus emphasized (cf. 8:33–39; Gal. 6:15). The coming of the kingdom at the end of the age can be described as the “regeneration” of the world (Matt. 19:28) but regeneration of the individual is required before the end of the world in order to enter the kingdom." MacArthur, J., Jr. (Ed.). (1997). The MacArthur Study Bible (electronic ed., pp. 1580–1581). Nashville, TN: Word Pub.

As a reminder oatmeal is number 16 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category. :burnlib: