Bill allowing guns on campus one step closer to law

RCLady

New member
Bill allowing guns on campus one step closer to law

March 18, 2015

baynews9.com

A bill to allow weapons on college campuses is one big step closer to becoming law. Monday, the Senate Higher Education Committee approved it in a party-line vote – Republicans for it, Democrats against. The bill would let anybody with a concealed weapon permit carry a gun at any of Florida’s public universities – right now, that’s illegal…
 

jgarden

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Gun violence in the United States - gun murders by state

State - Gun Murders (rate per 100,000 inhabitants)(2010)
****************************************************

Louisiana 7.7
Missouri 5.4
Maryland 5.1
South Carolina 4.5
Delaware 4.2
Michigan 4.2
Mississippi 4.0
Florida 3.9
Georgia 3.8
Arizona 3.6
Pennsylvania 3.6
Tennessee 3.5
California 3.4
New Mexico 3.3
Arkansas 3.2
Texas 3.2
Nevada 3.1
Virginia 3.1
North Carolina 3.0
Oklahoma 3.0
Alabama 2.8
Illinois 2.8
New Jersey 2.8
Alaska 2.7
Connecticut 2.7
Kentucky 2.7
New York 2.7
Ohio 2.7
Indiana 2.2
Kansas 2.2
Massachusetts 1.8
Nebraska 1.8
Wisconsin 1.7
Rhode Island 1.5
West Virginia 1.5
Washington 1.4
Colorado 1.3
Montana 1.2
Minnesota 1.0
South Dakota 1.0
Oregon 0.9
Wyoming 0.9
Idaho 0.8
Maine 0.8
Utah 0.8
Iowa 0.7
North Dakota 0.6
Hawaii 0.5
New Hampshire 0.4
Vermont 0.3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States_by_state
What Florida really needs is more guns on campus of its going to compete with Louisiana for number 1.
 

jgarden

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Banned
Guns on Campus’ Laws for Public Colleges and Universities

A Guide for Students and Parents

- The overwhelming majority of the 4,400 colleges and universities in the United States prohibit the carrying of firearms on their campuses.
- These gun-free policies have helped to make our post-secondary education institutions some of the safest places in the country.
- For example, a 2001 U.S. Department of Education study found that the overall homicide rate at post-secondary education institutions was 0.07 per 100,000 students in 1999.
- By comparison, the criminal homicide rate in the United States as a whole was 5.7 per 100,000 persons overall in 1999, and 14.1 per 100,000 for persons ages 17 to 29.
- A Department of Justice study found that 93% of violent crimes that victimize college students occur off campus.

- Despite the success of these gun-free policies, an increasingly extreme pro-gun movement in the USA is promoting legislation and litigation to force colleges and universities to allow concealed guns on campus.

http://www.armedcampuses.org/

- gun-free policies have helped to make our post-secondary education institutions some of the safest places in the country

- overall homicide rate at post-secondary education institutions was 0.07 per 100,000 students in 1999

- criminal homicide rate in the United States as a whole was 5.7 per 100,000 persons overall in 1999

- 14.1 per 100,000 for persons ages 17 to 29

- 93% of violent crimes that victimize college students occur off campus

Promoting legislation and litigation to force colleges and universities to allow concealed guns on campus is an "act of faith" because the data clearly shows that campuses are already amongst the safest places in the nation.

"If it ain't broken don't fix it!
 

genuineoriginal

New member
Gun violence in the United States - gun murders by state

State - Gun Murders (rate per 100,000 inhabitants)(2010)
************************************************** **

Louisiana 7.7
Missouri 5.4
Maryland 5.1
South Carolina 4.5
Delaware 4.2
Michigan 4.2
Mississippi 4.0
Florida 3.9
Georgia 3.8
Arizona 3.6
Pennsylvania 3.6
Tennessee 3.5
California 3.4
New Mexico 3.3
Arkansas 3.2
Texas 3.2
Nevada 3.1
Virginia 3.1
North Carolina 3.0
Oklahoma 3.0
Alabama 2.8
Illinois 2.8
New Jersey 2.8
Alaska 2.7
Connecticut 2.7
Kentucky 2.7
New York 2.7
Ohio 2.7
Indiana 2.2
Kansas 2.2
Massachusetts 1.8
Nebraska 1.8
Wisconsin 1.7
Rhode Island 1.5
West Virginia 1.5
Washington 1.4
Colorado 1.3
Montana 1.2
Minnesota 1.0
South Dakota 1.0
Oregon 0.9
Wyoming 0.9
Idaho 0.8
Maine 0.8
Utah 0.8
Iowa 0.7
North Dakota 0.6
Hawaii 0.5
New Hampshire 0.4
Vermont 0.3
What Florida really needs is more guns on campus of its going to compete with Louisiana for number 1.
Here is a list of the states that have laws permitting concealed weapons on campus:
_____
Guns on Campus: Overview
Due to recent state legislation and court rulings, 7 states now have provisions allowing the carrying of concealed weapons on public postsecondary campuses. These states are Colorado, Idaho, Kansas, Mississippi, Oregon, Utah, and Wisconsin. In March 2014, Idaho's legislature passed a bill premitting concealed weapons on campus and making it the 7th state to permit guns on campus.
_____​
I highlighted those states in your list so you can see how much more dangerous those states are than Florida.

As far as your argument goes, it has already been addressed by Students for Concealed Carry
_____
Common Arguments Against Campus Carry
no state has seen a resulting increase in gun violence as a result of legalizing concealed carry (all 50 states now allow some form of concealed carry), despite the fact that licensed citizens regularly carry concealed handguns in places like office buildings, movie theaters, grocery stores, shopping malls, restaurants, churches, and banks. Virtually every peer-reviewed study on the subject, including studies by the National Academy of Sciences* and the Harvard Injury Control Research Center**, has concluded that there is no evidence that licensed concealed carry leads to an increase in either violent crime or gun deaths.
_____​
 

genuineoriginal

New member
- gun-free policies have helped to make our post-secondary education institutions some of the safest places in the country

- overall homicide rate at post-secondary education institutions was 0.07 per 100,000 students in 1999

- criminal homicide rate in the United States as a whole was 5.7 per 100,000 persons overall in 1999,

- 14.1 per 100,000 for persons ages 17 to 29

- 93% of violent crimes that victimize college students occur off campus

Promoting legislation and litigation to force colleges and universities to allow concealed guns on campus is "an act of faith" because the data already shows that campuses are among the safest places in the nation.

"If it ain't broken don't fix it! [/b]

They also addressed this argument.
_____
School shootings are very rare, and college campuses are statistically very safe. There is no need to allow concealed carry on campus.

Though most college campuses—like most affluent neighborhoods—are statistically safer than the surrounding communities as a whole, most college campuses—like most affluent neighborhoods—do occasionally play host to every type of violent crime found in the rest of society, from murder to assault to rape. There are no laws prohibiting licensed concealed carry in affluent neighborhoods, and there shouldn’t be laws prohibiting licensed concealed carry on college campuses.

It makes no sense to limit licensed concealed carry to areas where danger is likely or imminent, because reasonable people tend to avoid places where danger is likely or imminent. Concealed handgun license holders carry guns in case danger finds them where they had no reason to expect it.

Furthermore, a free society always places the burden of proof on those seeking the denial of a right, to show that granting the right will cause harm. A free society never places the burden of proof on those seeking the granting of a right, to show that the right is needed. The statistics suggest that allowing concealed carry on campus won’t hurt and might help; therefore, there is no legitimate reason not to allow it.
_____​
 
What Florida really needs is more guns on campus of its going to compete with Louisiana for number 1.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people. What is the difference between the people in Louisiana versus the people in Vermont where you don't even need a permit to carry concealed? Ask yourself that.
 

Ktoyou

Well-known member
Hall of Fame
What Florida really needs is more guns on campus of its going to compete with Louisiana for number 1.

Random irrelevant reasoning. If the list reflect attitude for allowing guns, or not, California would be at the bottom of the list
 

jgarden

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Banned
Arkansas - in 2013, The Arkansas Legislature passed and the Governor signed into law, Act 226, which provides for faculty at Arkansas’ college and universities to carry concealed weapons. The law contains a major provision – schools can opt out of the law on an annual basis. For the 2nd year, every single 2 and 4 year college has exercised their “opt out” right, effectively keeping concealed weapons off all campuses in Arkansas

Colorado - the Colorado Court of Appeals has ruled twice that under the Colorado Concealed Carry Act (2003), the Colorado Board of Regents does not have the authority to ban concealed carry license holders from carrying their firearms on public campuses (Colorado State in 2010 and the University of Colorado in 2012)

Idaho - March 12, 2014, Gov. Butch Otter signed SB 1254 into law despite overwhelming opposition from the higher education and law enforcement communities

Kansas - in 2013, Governor Brownback signed into law legislation that creates a provision where colleges and universities cannot prohibit concealed carry unless a building has “adequate security measures,” however, governing boards of the institutions may still request an exemption to prohibit concealed weapons for up to 4 years

Mississippi - conceal carry law (2011) declares that colleges and universities can no longer prohibit concealed weapons for those who have completed a voluntary “enhanced” training program for a concealed carry license. According to an Official Memo from the office of Attorney General Jim Hood, those with an “enhanced” concealed carry permit must have the proper documentation with them at all times. Because the law remains unclear, many colleges and universities have banned firearms from dorms, events centers and dining halls.

Oregon - in an Oregon Court of Appeals case (2011), three judges concluded that Oregon public colleges and universities no longer have authority to ban weapons on the physical grounds of a campus. Each school does however, have discretion as to whether to permit concealed handguns inside buildings, dormitories, event centers, and classrooms.
Private colleges and universities may still prohibit weapons throughout the entire campus including grounds.
On March, 2, 2012, the Oregon Higher Education Board voted unanimously to ban weapons in all seven state colleges and universities.

Utah - while the Utah State Board of Regents generally has the power to enact regulations governing the conduct of university and college students, faculty, and employees, Utah law expressly reserves to the Utah State Legislature the authority to regulate firearms at higher education institutions. Therefore, while the Utah State Board of Regents maintains limited authority to regulate firearms in the areas listed below, it may not otherwise authorize higher education institutions to restrict the lawful possession or carrying of firearms. See Utah Code Ann. § 53B-3-103(2)(2002)

Wisconsin - in 2011, Governor Walker signed into a law, sweeping changes to the state’s gun laws. At the time, Wisconsin was one of only two states to prohibit the carrying on concealed firearms. The 2011 Senate Bill 93 changed things in many areas, including allowing concealed weapons on college campuses (public and private). The law contains a provision that allows colleges to post signs prohibiting the carrying of concealed weapons in buildings on campus.

http://www.armedcampuses.org/

All of the states highlighted introduced their right to carry guns on campus after the data for this list was compiled.

Those homicide rates were compiled before the legislation was introduced.
 
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genuineoriginal

New member
Many of the states highlighted introduced their right to carry guns on campus after the data for this list was compiled.

You have just admitted that your data has no bearing on the topic under discussion.

Are you just posting outdated data for no reason whatsoever?
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
Missouri has gone to open carry for elementary schools. Idiots claimed a shooting would not have happened if it wasn't illegal in the past. Whereas murder was illegal and that didn't stop the murder. Things are made illegal so it is legal to punish the wicked.
 

This Charming Manc

Well-known member
i'm wondering when the penny will drop.. with you guys and guns.

At what point does 'we need more guns' not be the solution to too many people getting shot?
 

jgarden

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Banned
You have just admitted that your data has no bearing on the topic under discussion.

Are you just posting outdated data for no reason whatsoever?
If my data is "outdated," be my guest to produce data after this legislation was introduced to prove that it had a positive effect!

- In 1999, National Rifle Association (NRA) CEO Wayne LaPierre said, “Schools should have absolutely zero tolerance for weapons of any kind, except in the hands of law enforcement. The academic environment is sacred, and more importantly, it's safe, and students need to feel safe.”

- A 2008 ruling by the Supreme Court (D.C. v. Heller) determined that laws banning the carrying of concealed weapons in public are both reasonable and constitutional.

- The Violence Policy Center (VPC) has documented 24 mass shootings committed by concealed handgun permit holders since May 2007 (mass shootings are shootings that involve three or more deaths).

- The International Association of Campus Law Enforcement Administrators (IACLEA) has stated that “There is...a real concern that campus police officers responding to a situation involving an active shooter may not be able to distinguish between the shooter and others with firearms at colleges that allow guns on their premises.”

- The Virginia Tech Review Panel recommended that guns be banned from college campuses after examining the tragic shooting that took place at the school in April 2007.

- The American Association of State Colleges and Universities (AASCU) has stated that, “While police are extensively trained to deal with crises, students or university staff with concealed weapons are not ... Even with the best of intentions, armed students or employees could escalate an already explosive situation further, accidentally cause harm or use a gun in a situation that is not warranted.”

- The Violence Policy Center (VPC) has documented the cases of 516 Americans who were shot and killed by concealed handgun permit holders between May 2007 and June 2013. This figure includes 14 law enforcement officers.

- John Woods lost his girlfriend in the 2007 mass shooting at Virginia Tech. He has testified against guns on campus legislation in Texas and pointed out, "If more guns meant less crime, the United States would be the safest place in the world."

http://www.armedcampuses.org/
 
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jgarden

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Guns don't kill people. People kill people. What is the difference between the people in Louisiana versus the people in Vermont where you don't even need a permit to carry concealed? Ask yourself that.
They also addressed this argument.
_____
School shootings are very rare, and college campuses are statistically very safe. There is no need to allow concealed carry on campus.

Though most college campuses—like most affluent neighborhoods—are statistically safer than the surrounding communities as a whole, most college campuses—like most affluent neighborhoods—do occasionally play host to every type of violent crime found in the rest of society, from murder to assault to rape. There are no laws prohibiting licensed concealed carry in affluent neighborhoods, and there shouldn’t be laws prohibiting licensed concealed carry on college campuses.

It makes no sense to limit licensed concealed carry to areas where danger is likely or imminent, because reasonable people tend to avoid places where danger is likely or imminent. Concealed handgun license holders carry guns in case danger finds them where they had no reason to expect it.

Furthermore, a free society always places the burden of proof on those seeking the denial of a right, to show that granting the right will cause harm. A free society never places the burden of proof on those seeking the granting of a right, to show that the right is needed. The statistics suggest that allowing concealed carry on campus won’t hurt and might help; therefore, there is no legitimate reason not to allow it.
_____​
National Rifle Association (NRA) CEO Wayne LaPierre has totally reversed the NRA's position on guns on campus in 1999.

“Schools should have absolutely zero tolerance for weapons of any kind, except in the hands of law enforcement. The academic environment is sacred, and more importantly, it's safe, and students need to feel safe.”
- CEO Wayne LaPierre, National Rifle Association (NRA), 1999
 
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jgarden

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All it shows is you should stay in the UK.

Your attitude may change with increase of Muslim population.
It would appear that with a 0.07 homicide rate per 100,000 persons, American campuses are almost level with the UK that has a 0.04 homicides rate per 100,000 persons.

With an average criminal homicide rate in the United States as a whole at 5.7 per 100,000 persons, what possible advantage is gained by the introductopn of guns onto college campuses that are already 81 times safer than the rest of America?

America is responsible for the deaths of far more Muslims in the world than the number of US citizens killed by Muslims.
 

Nick M

Plymouth Colonist
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
At what point does 'we need more guns' not be the solution to too many people getting shot?

When murderers, rapers, kidnappers....are swiftly executed and the people do not act presumptuously. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
 

jgarden

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Banned
When murderers, rapers, kidnappers....are swiftly executed and the people do not act presumptuously. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
John Woods lost his girlfriend in the 2007 mass shooting at Virginia Tech. He has testified against guns on campus legislation in Texas and pointed out, "If more guns meant less crime, the United States would be the safest place in the world."

http://www.armedcampuses.org/
 
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