Being Rich Is A Sin

nikolai_42

Well-known member
I said
It says God chose the poor to be heirs of the kingdom.Not the rich.

[Jas 2:5
[5] Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world [to be] rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?

If you play "gotcha" with scripture, you can go down so many different rabbit trails...

Many things in scripture are not found in a single verse clearly and plainly stated in a way we would like. Few things can be established in single verses - but the testimony of scripture has to hold as a whole. And all the scriptures you have brought up so far either don't really apply to being rich - or might hint at calling "being rich" a sin - but the fact that there is no verse that specifically says that only reinforces the fact that you have to look at all of scripture.

The verse in James 2 certainly looks (on its own) like it could support that, but only if you read it in the precise way you want to. Consider the following :

1. Paul makes a similar statement :

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.

I Corinthians 1:26-29

The principle he shows is that those that the world esteems are not those whom God esteems. In fact, God typically uses the things the world counts as lowly and worth little to confound those things the world esteems highly. Paul even uses the term "your calling" in verse 26. Israel was called by God in the OT for the same reason - they were the least. God was not using them to point to themselves, but to make it clear that He had made them what they were. And Israel inherited much as a result of God's work on their behalf. They also lost it all because of their obstinacy.

2. Paul - in the same letter - chastises the Corinthians for suing each other :

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

I Corinthians 6:1-6

Paul recommended not only that they settle the disputes among themselves, but that they pick someone who doesn't have great standing in the church. The church, he was saying, should be concerned with more important matters - eternal matters. And he goes on to detail the real issues of eternal consequence.

Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

I Corinthians 6:7-12

If they didn't have possessions to be defrauded of, why even the need to go to court in the first place? And why didn't Paul tell them they shouldn't have those things to begin with? And - more critically - why didn't Paul list "the wealthy" in his statement of who would not inherit the Kingdom? After all, that's what got him started - possessions and right to them. All things (Paul said) are lawful to him, but not all things are expedient. Not all things promote the Kingship of Christ - but never once did Paul say that the possessions and wealth were an issue here.

3. Jesus mentions poverty in the beatitudes, but not physical poverty.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 5:3

Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
James 2:5

It's amazing how much of that verse parallels what Jesus said? Yet James doesn't say (explicitly) that he is talking about the poor in spirit. Jesus in the beatitudes never mentions riches - so if we read James in light of Jesus (rather than Jesus in light of James) we come away with the distinct impression that he is not talking about physical riches but spiritual poverty? The world doesn't look up to those who are truly humble...truly needy...truly reliant on God. Remember, again, what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 1 ("....not many..." - not "...none..."). And while it is absolutely true that being poor forces the issue, it is not a NECESSITY to be poor in goods to be poor in spirit as well.

4. Which leads to the final point. You do find people of physical mentioned amongst the faithful in the New Testament.

a. The Centurion - Jesus said He had not found so great faith in Israel (Matthew 8:10 and Luke 7:9)) and he even built a synagogue for the Israelites (Luke 7:5)
b. Cornelius the centurion - a devout man who feared God, prayed and gave alms. The man had household servants (Acts 10:7).
c. Philemon - the letter is about Philemon taking back one of his servants (Onesimus) who left. Paul was pleading for him to be received. Philemon wasn't poor if he had servants.
d. Joseph of Arimathea - we can't forget him. Two things are plainly said of him : he was a disciple of Jesus and he was wealthy.

When the even was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph, who also himself was Jesus' disciple:
Matthew 27:57

Joseph's wealth allowed him to provide a burial for the Lord. The poor wouldn't have had their own tomb.

So while it's clear that not many wealthy do follow the Lord, you can't make the claim that some wealthy people didn't. There may even be a few others in scripture, but I picked what I believe are the clearest examples.
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
If you play "gotcha" with scripture, you can go down so many different rabbit trails...

Many things in scripture are not found in a single verse clearly and plainly stated in a way we would like. Few things can be established in single verses - but the testimony of scripture has to hold as a whole. And all the scriptures you have brought up so far either don't really apply to being rich - or might hint at calling "being rich" a sin - but the fact that there is no verse that specifically says that only reinforces the fact that you have to look at all of scripture.

The verse in James 2 certainly looks (on its own) like it could support that, but only if you read it in the precise way you want to. Consider the following :

1. Paul makes a similar statement :

For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
That no flesh should glory in his presence.

I said
You seem to have as many maybe's and almost's as you claim I do. But here is the difference what I posted was one of the revelations of Jesus Christ that I receive. I have received over 3000 of these revelations and I have found them to be absolute to me. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 

nikolai_42

Well-known member
I said
You seem to have as many maybe's and almost's as you claim I do. But here is the difference what I posted was one of the revelations of Jesus Christ that I receive. I have received over 3000 of these revelations and I have found them to be absolute to me. So I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

As far as I know there are no "maybe"s in my posts. I'm not throwing around suggestions - but simply saying that you want to make a universal statement that all people who are rich are sinful simply because they are rich - that no believer should ever be rich. I am only saying scripture falls short of saying that. I certainly issues strong warnings against covetousness and lusting after money - and makes wealth out to be a major obstacle to trusting God - but nowhere does it say what you say : "Being rich is a sin".

That's literally all I'm trying to say. If someone believes they need to sell absolutely everything they have to follow Jesus, then they should do that. Each man to his own master stands or falls. And if one hates money in the scriptural way, they will find themselves freer. Not that we are to walk away from financial commitments we have made - that would be sinful - but becoming more set upon eternal things than temporal things is always good.

But you seem to want to make a blanket statement in scripture where there is none - create an absolute where the scriptures don't attest to that (even if they are close). To bind that on others' consciences is to go beyond scripture. So the fact that you call it a revelation is a concern....
 

Squeaky

BANNED
Banned
As far as I know there are no "maybe"s in my posts. I'm not throwing around suggestions -

I said
There is nothing in your suggestions that say it is ok to be rich. Maybe these verses pertain to the subject and maybe not. You are suggesting. Which I cant agree with.

I Corinthians 6:1-6
I Corinthians 6:7-12


God chose the poor to be heirs of the kingdom. He did not choose the rich to be heirs.


James 2:5
5 Listen, my beloved brethren: Has God not chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom which He promised to those who love Him?
 

7djengo7

This space intentionally left blank
I said
Where do you people come up with that kind of logic. I dont buy much. God gave me a house, He gave me a truck, He gave me a boat, He gave me guns to hunt with. Should I say no to God when He gives me a gift.

[Jas 1:16–18
[16] Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren.
[17] Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
[18] Of His own will He brought us forth by the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of His creatures.

Those of us who strive to think logically did not "come up with" logic: logic is a gift from God to mankind. You (like many others) obviously say no to God's gift of logic, since you refuse to think logically.
 

k0de

Active member
Nonsense. What is your definition of being rich?

When I started my business back in 2005 in my first year my business Gross a total of 3.2 million that was $3,222,222 to be exact. That same year my Net income was $161,111.1.

Meaning that $3,061,110.9 dollars in that year went towards expenses, taxes, and payroll in that year alone. That alone took care of plenty of other people wants and needs.

Out of my 5% retainage of $ 161,111.1in that year I gave 10% that was $16,111.1 to my Church.

I'm not boasting I'm just giving you an example of why being rich isn't a bad thing.But what you do with your riches is what the Master is referring to.

Reread the parable of the talents again. Matthew 25:14–30
 
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