Evangelion
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Hi there, Kimberblue - and welcome! I'm one of the local heretics. You'll be seeing quite a lot of me around here. 
"BATTLE TALK" for BATTLE ROYALE #1 - Freak vs. me again
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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Evangelion
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Hey, I just realised who you are! Allow me to congratulate you on having a magnificent husband whose sensitivity and spirituality are almost without peer. :up: :up:
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Pilgrimagain
Guest
wow, sucha welcome, I can see my warnings went well heeded!
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Pilgrimagain
Guest
hmmm, have you noticed that whenever me again gets a vote Freak immediately gets another as well so that Freak is always 2 a head. Hmmm.
Are you insinuating something???????
Please be, please be!!!
Here is the weakness in Jay's argument from the last time, which I think me again did pick up on, if only in a cursory sense:
If Jay had put that in his argument, it would have been much stronger.
In order to strengthen his case, Jay should have noted that these verses in I John assume that Jesus is God, otherwise they make no sense. Therefore, it is implicit that one must accept Jesus as God as well as accept that He came in the flesh. What john is fighting here is the belief that Jesus came as God only, and that His flesh was an illusion.
If Jay had put that in his argument, it would have been much stronger.
Originally posted by goose
Ya know, something tells me Knight keeps logs of who voted for who.
o2bwise
New member
Freak Is So Obviously Wrong
Freak Is So Obviously Wrong
Freak's position is so obviously wrong. But, me again's position (as to what constitutes being saved) is wrong as well.
God's character (love) is something we humans lack 100%. His love can only be installed by God. His revelation of love is called GRACE and our permission of God's installation of that love is called FAITH.
Romans states that the revelation of CREATION itself is a sufficient revelation of God such that to not respond by faith is inexcusable (Romans 1).
In Romans 10, Paul asks "Have they not ALL heard?" and he is asking if God has been made known to ALL of humanity. Romans 10 goes on to quote Psalm 19. Psalm 19:1-4 clearly expounds on the word that is a revelation of creation.
There are folks in this world, past and present, who still have not ever heard of the NAME of Jesus Christ. Is God so circumscribed in the invitation to serve Him that such persons are lost? Simply because they never heard the word "Jesus Christ?" (Or, to assume freak's position is true, simply because they have not heard that Christ is divine?)
Consider the above paragraph with the following point. Romans says that ALL men are without excuse. Assuming the positions of freak and me again, how can a man who never had the opportunity to even hear the name "Jesus Christ" be without excuse?
The position is absolute folly on the face of it.
ANY REVELATION OF GRACE RECEIVED INTO THE HEART BY FAITH EFFECTIVELY WORKS AND IF IT HAS EFFECTIVELY WORKED, THAT PERSON IS BEING SAVED.
AND THE REVELATION OF CREATION ITSELF, THE BIBLE SAYS, IS SUFFICIENT GRACE TO EFFECTIVELY WORK IN A PERSON WHO BELIEVES.
One last point. Someone might believe that a person who has only seen (and responded to) the word that is a revelation of creation, is not serving the true God. This is incorrect, for the only grace there is, the only grace that can effectively work, MUST COME FROM GOD and thus, the person's faith that appropriating that grace is faith IN God.
In other words, a person's "theology" could be all over the map. But, it is still possible that a small part of his beliefs is inclusive of having truly received grace by faith. Such a person has at least a PARTIAL knowledge of who God is, that is accurate. To the exact extent of the grace that He already has received by faith.
God Bless,
Tony (o2)
Freak Is So Obviously Wrong
Freak's position is so obviously wrong. But, me again's position (as to what constitutes being saved) is wrong as well.
God's character (love) is something we humans lack 100%. His love can only be installed by God. His revelation of love is called GRACE and our permission of God's installation of that love is called FAITH.
Romans states that the revelation of CREATION itself is a sufficient revelation of God such that to not respond by faith is inexcusable (Romans 1).
In Romans 10, Paul asks "Have they not ALL heard?" and he is asking if God has been made known to ALL of humanity. Romans 10 goes on to quote Psalm 19. Psalm 19:1-4 clearly expounds on the word that is a revelation of creation.
There are folks in this world, past and present, who still have not ever heard of the NAME of Jesus Christ. Is God so circumscribed in the invitation to serve Him that such persons are lost? Simply because they never heard the word "Jesus Christ?" (Or, to assume freak's position is true, simply because they have not heard that Christ is divine?)
Consider the above paragraph with the following point. Romans says that ALL men are without excuse. Assuming the positions of freak and me again, how can a man who never had the opportunity to even hear the name "Jesus Christ" be without excuse?
The position is absolute folly on the face of it.
ANY REVELATION OF GRACE RECEIVED INTO THE HEART BY FAITH EFFECTIVELY WORKS AND IF IT HAS EFFECTIVELY WORKED, THAT PERSON IS BEING SAVED.
AND THE REVELATION OF CREATION ITSELF, THE BIBLE SAYS, IS SUFFICIENT GRACE TO EFFECTIVELY WORK IN A PERSON WHO BELIEVES.
One last point. Someone might believe that a person who has only seen (and responded to) the word that is a revelation of creation, is not serving the true God. This is incorrect, for the only grace there is, the only grace that can effectively work, MUST COME FROM GOD and thus, the person's faith that appropriating that grace is faith IN God.
In other words, a person's "theology" could be all over the map. But, it is still possible that a small part of his beliefs is inclusive of having truly received grace by faith. Such a person has at least a PARTIAL knowledge of who God is, that is accurate. To the exact extent of the grace that He already has received by faith.
God Bless,
Tony (o2)
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Pilgrimagain
Guest
I'm not insuating anything. It's just a pretty smart move I think. I think some are hanging back on the voting and comming forward to keep it even when they need to.
Goose,
Well seeing as my wife and I use the same two computers, I bet our IP's are remarkably simular. And since my home comupter is cable, the IP better be the exact same every time!
Goose,
Well seeing as my wife and I use the same two computers, I bet our IP's are remarkably simular. And since my home comupter is cable, the IP better be the exact same every time!
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Pilgrimagain
Guest
Tony,
In regards to those who have never heard...Our only assurance and hope is that whatever God does will be right.
Pilgrim
In regards to those who have never heard...Our only assurance and hope is that whatever God does will be right.
Pilgrim
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