P
Pilgrimagain
Guest
in all fairness, Freak did come clean and go back and give credit where it was needed. it just took some time. Check out the other threads circulating on this one.
Battle Royale Rules
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
Evangelion
New member
No worries, mate. :up: I should have given it more thought in the first place. 
Shhhhhhhh don't tell them! How will the "Freak hounds" survive knowing that Freak apologized already??
Flipper
New member
knight:
"Freak hounds"? As he's usually the first stone-thrower, I shouldn't think you should be that fussed, with your "eye for an eye" philosophy. I would have thought, with your penchant for absolute morality and your distain for forgiving people on the behalf of others that you might have condemned this dishonesty too, but I don't find evangelical double-standards all that surprising any more.
Freak's apology, to be worth anything, should have been accompanied with a retraction of his allegations towards evangelion. Better yet, he ought not to have made them, as they compounded his lie and cheapened his apology. Apparently, you don't see this.
I don't recall the last time I started a thread mentioning Freak by name for the purposes of denigrating him, do you? Freak gets back what he gives others, in spades.
And why do I hound him? Because he insists on an absolute standard of morality which, apparently, he refuses to live by himself. Your continued apologia in this matter seems to indicate that you don't quite believe in them yourself.
Dishonesty is dishonesty. Theft is theft. It's not your place to forgive others for sins that were not against you, but to condemn them? I thought that was your position? Perhaps you're more of a relativist than you let on?
"Freak hounds"? As he's usually the first stone-thrower, I shouldn't think you should be that fussed, with your "eye for an eye" philosophy. I would have thought, with your penchant for absolute morality and your distain for forgiving people on the behalf of others that you might have condemned this dishonesty too, but I don't find evangelical double-standards all that surprising any more.
Freak's apology, to be worth anything, should have been accompanied with a retraction of his allegations towards evangelion. Better yet, he ought not to have made them, as they compounded his lie and cheapened his apology. Apparently, you don't see this.
I don't recall the last time I started a thread mentioning Freak by name for the purposes of denigrating him, do you? Freak gets back what he gives others, in spades.
And why do I hound him? Because he insists on an absolute standard of morality which, apparently, he refuses to live by himself. Your continued apologia in this matter seems to indicate that you don't quite believe in them yourself.
Dishonesty is dishonesty. Theft is theft. It's not your place to forgive others for sins that were not against you, but to condemn them? I thought that was your position? Perhaps you're more of a relativist than you let on?
MORAL RELITIVIST TO THE RESCUE!!!
MORAL RELITIVIST TO THE RESCUE!!!
Flipper writes...
How about this... try thinking before you post.
You continue...
You continue...
You continue...
Try to follow:
- Plagiarism is bad.
- What Freak did was not appropriate. Maybe even wrong.
- Freak apologized to EVERYONE
What more should be done???? I have never defended Freak's alleged plagiarism and you know it (as does everyone else). But I have defended Freak from the multitude of garbage that comes spewing out of the brainless Freak bashers. I would defend you as well if I thought you were being unfairly treated. As it stands you are being treated with all the respect you deserve.
MORAL RELITIVIST TO THE RESCUE!!!
Flipper writes...
Double standard??? Please.
How about this... try thinking before you post.
You continue...
From a moral relativist position I think you have no point. Furthermore, I do not remember Evang apologizing when he was caught blatantly lying twice, but hey Evang is a "good guy" so we cant pick on him can we?
You continue...
LOL! Your funny! "Moral relativist" - yea right!
You continue...
Flipper, you are an embarrassment to yourself.
Try to follow:
- Plagiarism is bad.
- What Freak did was not appropriate. Maybe even wrong.
- Freak apologized to EVERYONE
What more should be done???? I have never defended Freak's alleged plagiarism and you know it (as does everyone else). But I have defended Freak from the multitude of garbage that comes spewing out of the brainless Freak bashers. I would defend you as well if I thought you were being unfairly treated. As it stands you are being treated with all the respect you deserve.
Evangelion
New member
Knight -
Oh, so you're a moral relativist after all, eh?
Tell me, Knight - just when is plagiarism "appropriate"?
Oh, so you're a moral relativist after all, eh?
Tell me, Knight - just when is plagiarism "appropriate"?
bill betzler
New member
When Jesus quotes God and says "I said that."
It isn't even trinitarian.
bill
Ya know "E" for someone who is supposed to be so smart you sure are dumb!
When I did I claim plagiarism was appropriate? Oh I didn't did I? That was another false accusation about me from you wasn't it? What I did say is that what Freak did was wrong, but to call it plagiarism is what is in question. Sure Freak used the words of someone else without referencing them but was it a mistake? Did he mean to reference his source but forgot? I don't know - do you? In the Battle rules we have a rule that states that you cannot edit your post after two minutes or it will be deleted. Maybe Freak forgot to make his reference and then knew he could not edit his post. Maybe he just forgot all together - I DON'T KNOW, nor do you. Furthermore is it really plagiarism in the strict sense since Freak was not attempting to profit from his post? After all... this is simply a internet forum, not a newspaper, a publication or heaven forbid.... a college exam!
So why don't you take your oversized ego and your puffed up attitude and go bother another forum somewhere. You are clearly wearing out your welcome here at TOL.
me again
New member
Sadness
Sadness
I am deeply hurt that you said the above to Ev. While Ev may be wrong in some of his beliefs, aren't we all? Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, except Jesus, and He isn't here yet to settle all the theological disputes.
I home that Ev doesn't leave. Being an educated gentleman, he might take you up on your offer and may not return. If that is the case, I will be deeply disappointed because I enjoy reading his wit. I also enjoy his intelligent responces.
Again, I'm deeply hurt that you made the above statement. I really am.
Sadness
- Posted by Knight
Snip...
Ya know "E" for someone who is supposed to be so smart you sure are dumb! So why don't you take your oversized ego and your puffed up attitude and go bother another forum somewhere. You are clearly wearing out your welcome here at TOL.
I am deeply hurt that you said the above to Ev. While Ev may be wrong in some of his beliefs, aren't we all? Nobody has a monopoly on the truth, except Jesus, and He isn't here yet to settle all the theological disputes.
I home that Ev doesn't leave. Being an educated gentleman, he might take you up on your offer and may not return. If that is the case, I will be deeply disappointed because I enjoy reading his wit. I also enjoy his intelligent responces.
Again, I'm deeply hurt that you made the above statement. I really am.
Oh brother!
Oh brother!
"me again", your hero "E" consistently breaks the rules here at TOL, makes false accusations (as in his last post on this thread), and drives off many posters that would probably post here if it weren't for "E"'s ridiculous tactics.
I will tell you that I have been MOOOOOOORRRRRREEEEEE than fair with Evang, but I will also tell you he is on his final warning here at TOL.
If you are in favor of protecting the likes of "E" than you will just have to be disappointed.
Oh brother!
"me again", your hero "E" consistently breaks the rules here at TOL, makes false accusations (as in his last post on this thread), and drives off many posters that would probably post here if it weren't for "E"'s ridiculous tactics.
I will tell you that I have been MOOOOOOORRRRRREEEEEE than fair with Evang, but I will also tell you he is on his final warning here at TOL.
If you are in favor of protecting the likes of "E" than you will just have to be disappointed.
P
Pilgrimagain
Guest
which part was the false accusation?
ugh.
When he said....
If you look back you will see I never claimed plagiarism was appropriate.
me again
New member
Come, let us reason together.
Come, let us reason together.
Knight,
He was simply asking a question. How can you say that his question is a false allegation? Are you reading more into it?
Based upon what I’ve seen, I think you’re going overboard. If there are things that I haven’t seen, then I’ll be glad to retract my statement. But you used his “question” as proof that he made a “false allegation.” A question can’t be an allegation.
And do you really think that he is chasing away posters? Is he generating more complaints, on average, than others?
Come, let us reason together.
Knight,
He was simply asking a question. How can you say that his question is a false allegation? Are you reading more into it?
Based upon what I’ve seen, I think you’re going overboard. If there are things that I haven’t seen, then I’ll be glad to retract my statement. But you used his “question” as proof that he made a “false allegation.” A question can’t be an allegation.
And do you really think that he is chasing away posters? Is he generating more complaints, on average, than others?
Re: Come, let us reason together.
Re: Come, let us reason together.
What do you call it when (if) someone asks you.... "Your a crooked cop aren't you"? That would be a allegation of you. Whether it is false or not would remain to be seen. Get the point?
But it isn't just his false allegations that are in question, there are several other things that I (we) have warned him about. Ultimately, there comes a point when enough is enough. I have given him "E" far more slack then most posters because he is a long time TOL participant.
Re: Come, let us reason together.
I thought you once said you were a police officer? You are aren't you? Yet you make the above statement???? I am really beginning to wonder about you.
What do you call it when (if) someone asks you.... "Your a crooked cop aren't you"? That would be a allegation of you. Whether it is false or not would remain to be seen. Get the point?
But it isn't just his false allegations that are in question, there are several other things that I (we) have warned him about. Ultimately, there comes a point when enough is enough. I have given him "E" far more slack then most posters because he is a long time TOL participant.
I don't "think" he has chased away posters - I KNOW for a fact he has chased away posters.
Evangelion
New member
Knight -
The corollory of this...
...is that there are occasions when plagiarism is right. This is tacitly implied in the words "maybe even wrong" - which, at the very least, clearly means "Freak's plagiarism was not wrong."
As a couple of people have already observed, I did not accuse you of saying that plagiarism is appropriate. So when you write this...
...my response is "If you look back you will see I never claimed you had said plagiarism is appropriate."
You say that you didn't claim that plagiarism was appropriate - and I agree! You never said this. But by the same token, I never claimed you had said it. QED. You can't argue that you didn't say it, without confirming that I never accused you of saying it, because the same logic with which you prove that you didn't say it, merely verifies the fact that I hadn't accused you of saying it. That's demonstrably true.
As for this...
...who have I "chased away"? I know I've been in some pretty rough debates over the last few months, but since my most aggressive opponents are fond of telling me that my arguments are futile, I hardly think they're intimidated by my presence here. And if you want to talk about "false accusations", it's a known fact that Freak has made more of these than anyone else on the forum. He's even attacked orthodox Christians left right and centre, for no apparent reason. You've already made it clear by your actions, that you are willing to interpret certain statements by me as "false accusations" which, if made by anyone else, would be dismissed as a harmless joke. That's a double standard, of course - but, as you are fond of saying, TOL doesn't pretend to be "fair", so I don't press the point.
PS. I agree that I have bent (and broken) the rules on several occasions - but (like some others who have done the same), I've also apologised for it. And I thank you for cutting me as much slack as you have - in deference to which, I shall take a sabbatical from TOL while I work on a comprehensive rebuttal to an essay on hell which JustAChristian has asked me to address. :up:
The corollory of this...
...is that there are occasions when plagiarism is right. This is tacitly implied in the words "maybe even wrong" - which, at the very least, clearly means "Freak's plagiarism was not wrong."
As a couple of people have already observed, I did not accuse you of saying that plagiarism is appropriate. So when you write this...
...my response is "If you look back you will see I never claimed you had said plagiarism is appropriate."
You say that you didn't claim that plagiarism was appropriate - and I agree! You never said this. But by the same token, I never claimed you had said it. QED. You can't argue that you didn't say it, without confirming that I never accused you of saying it, because the same logic with which you prove that you didn't say it, merely verifies the fact that I hadn't accused you of saying it. That's demonstrably true.
As for this...
...who have I "chased away"? I know I've been in some pretty rough debates over the last few months, but since my most aggressive opponents are fond of telling me that my arguments are futile, I hardly think they're intimidated by my presence here. And if you want to talk about "false accusations", it's a known fact that Freak has made more of these than anyone else on the forum. He's even attacked orthodox Christians left right and centre, for no apparent reason. You've already made it clear by your actions, that you are willing to interpret certain statements by me as "false accusations" which, if made by anyone else, would be dismissed as a harmless joke. That's a double standard, of course - but, as you are fond of saying, TOL doesn't pretend to be "fair", so I don't press the point.
PS. I agree that I have bent (and broken) the rules on several occasions - but (like some others who have done the same), I've also apologised for it. And I thank you for cutting me as much slack as you have - in deference to which, I shall take a sabbatical from TOL while I work on a comprehensive rebuttal to an essay on hell which JustAChristian has asked me to address. :up:
"E" writes...
You continue...
"E", only if you assume what Freak did was ACTUALLY plagiarism. Right?
You continue...
Hmmmmm.... you accused me when you asked....
That question insinuates in no uncertain terms that I (at some point) stated that plagiarism is at times appropriate. Which of course I never did. If on the other hand.... your question doesn't insinuate that I made that statement please explain to me just what your question meant.
Evangelion
New member
Knight -
I don't need to "assume" anything. It was plagiarism, and I wasn't the only person who identified it as such. When somebody uses material that isn't theirs, without referencing it, that's plagiarism. Everyone from Jaltus to Pilgrim agreed that Freak had plagiarised James White's argument.
It does nothing of the kind, as I demonstrated in my previous post.
Agreed.
I already did this in my previous post. Your statement tacitly implies that plagiarism is legitimate under certain conditions. Hence my use of the word "corollary."
I don't need to "assume" anything. It was plagiarism, and I wasn't the only person who identified it as such. When somebody uses material that isn't theirs, without referencing it, that's plagiarism. Everyone from Jaltus to Pilgrim agreed that Freak had plagiarised James White's argument.
It does nothing of the kind, as I demonstrated in my previous post.
Agreed.
I already did this in my previous post. Your statement tacitly implies that plagiarism is legitimate under certain conditions. Hence my use of the word "corollary."