Baking Cakes for Homosexual Couples

[aikido7]

Suppose a homosexual couple goes to a bakery and orders a cake for their wedding. If the baker bakes them a cake knowing that the cake is for the wedding of a homosexual couple, does this mean that the baker is giving approval to their marriage? Does this mean that the baker is celebrating the marriage with the homosexual couple?

No. But if he bakes a cake for homos, this means that he is just as gay as the couple is.

And that's the terrible fear that most homophobes carry around with them:

Even men like Mel Gibson sometimes have to face the horrible truth that their life is a sham and they have always been gay.
And apparently, it can happen in an instant.

 

[PureX]

Yes, and there is no NEED for gays to force a Christian bakery to make their wedding cakes, as there are plenty of secular and pro-gay bakeries (or just neutral) these days.

What is so offensive is that the gay couples deliberately choose Christian bakeries so they can:

1. get into litigation
2. further the 'cause'
3. Lord it over religious people
4. Be punitive to religious people (financially and socially)

VERY WRONG and quite fascist, in a sneak way!

There are no "Christian bakeries". There are only bakeries that are open to the general public, or bakeries that are not open to the general public. If your bakery is open to the general public, it will need a license. And if you wish to keep your license, you must honor it's requirements, one of which is that you do not wrongly discriminate against groups or members of the general public that you are purporting to serve. If you are a private bakery, however, like a co-op or a commercial club, then you can discriminate as you wish. But you must explain your policies to prospective members in advance of taking their money for membership, or engaging in any trades with them.

What you don't get to do, in either case, is stand behind the counter passing judgment on anyone you happen to entice through the door.

 

[Rusha]

So you would deliberately cheat them of their time and money, and ruin their wedding, because you don't like them. That's a pretty low thing to do.

Nah, it would be a response to them ONLY patronizing my establishment because they know I don't like them. It's fairly obvious I would have to KNOW someone to dislike them unless they really made a point of being obnoxious when they made their order.

And thus we see the whole problem with the politically correct whiners ...

"They didn't want to serve me because I am gay/Hindu/male/female, etc.!"

"Nah, I didn't want to serve you because you are an instigating twit".

 

[PureX]

Nah, it would be a response to them ONLY patronizing my establishment because they know I don't like them.

If you are operating a public business, the sign over the door invites all members of the public in. You would have no right to assume they came in just to annoy you.

If you were operating a private bakery, as a club or co-op, the gay couple could not buy your wares without being a member, and to become a member, you would have had to tell them of your biased policies against gays. In which case they either would not join, or you would exclude them from joining, and no such cake would ever be requested.

It's fairly obvious I would have to KNOW someone to dislike them unless they really made a point of being obnoxious when they made their order.

It doesn't matter what you know about them. What matters is that you are operating a business, which is purporting to trade with people. How you have chosen to present your proposed trade is what decides how you have to behave when a trade is requested.

Commerce is not about how you feel, or who you like or don't like. It's about what you are offering for trade, how you are offering it, and how you are fulfilling your side of the bargain. Businesses are not churches, and commerce is not a form of religion, nor a popularity contest.

 

[Rusha]

If you are operating a public business, the sign over the door invites all members of the public in. You would have no right to assume they came in just to annoy you.

Oh ... in the United States of America we no longer have the right to believe/think/assume. It's so nice of others to make that determination.

How odd that these types of regulations are seen as *laws to regulate thought*.

 

[quip]

Personally I wouldn't bake the cake.

And if I did.... it would be the worst cake I ever made.

Why shortchange your skills or business for mere spite? Either showcase your skills and make the best cake possible...or don't make it at all. But don't compromise yourself.

 

[GFR7]

Nah, it would be a response to them ONLY patronizing my establishment because they know I don't like them. It's fairly obvious I would have to KNOW someone to dislike them unless they really made a point of being obnoxious when they made their order.

And thus we see the whole problem with the politically correct whiners ...

"They didn't want to serve me because I am gay/Hindu/male/female, etc.!"

"Nah, I didn't want to serve you because you are an instigating twit".

:think: Very well stated, Rushie :BRAVO: Could not have said it better myself.

 

[GFR7]

There are no "Christian bakeries". There are only bakeries that are open to the general public, or bakeries that are not open to the general public. If your bakery is open to the general public, it will need a license. And if you wish to keep your license, you must honor it's requirements, one of which is that you do not wrongly discriminate against groups or members of the general public that you are purporting to serve. If you are a private bakery, however, like a co-op or a commercial club, then you can discriminate as you wish. But you must explain your policies to prospective members in advance of taking their money for membership, or engaging in any trades with them.

What you don't get to do, in either case, is stand behind the counter passing judgment on anyone you happen to entice through the door.

But if gay people come in for Birthday cakes, graduation cakes, cookies, they will be served like anyone else. (are gays even identifiable? :think It's that they are DELIBERATELY baiting these bakeries, with their wedding cakes, to bring about shame, social change, and litigation money. :AMR1:

 

[quip]

Nah, it would be a response to them ONLY patronizing my establishment because they know I don't like them. It's fairly obvious I would have to KNOW someone to dislike them unless they really made a point of being obnoxious when they made their order.

And thus we see the whole problem with the politically correct whiners ...

"They didn't want to serve me because I am gay/Hindu/male/female, etc.!"

"Nah, I didn't want to serve you because you are an instigating twit".

So two wrongs do make a right?

 

[Dialogos]

Suppose a homosexual couple goes to a bakery and orders a cake for their wedding. If the baker bakes them a cake knowing that the cake is for the wedding of a homosexual couple, does this mean that the baker is giving approval to their marriage?

Yes.

Does this mean that the baker is celebrating the marriage with the homosexual couple?

Yes.

 

[PureX]

Oh ... in the United States of America we no longer have the right to believe/think/assume. It's so nice of others to make that determination.

How odd that these types of regulations are seen as *laws to regulate thought*.

You can believe, think, and assume anything you want to. But you can't lie to and cheat other people while calling it fair trade.

No one is regulating thought. That's not even possible. They are regulating behavior, which is the purpose of social law.

 

[PureX]

But if gay people come in for Birthday cakes, graduation cakes, cookies, they will be served like anyone else. (are gays even identifiable? :think It's that they are DELIBERATELY baiting these bakeries, with their wedding cakes, to bring about shame, social change, and litigation money. :AMR1:

At this point you're just wallowing in biased make-believe.

 

[GFR7]

At this point you're just wallowing in biased make-believe.

No, I am not.

Have you not seen the monetary awards of the past few years? And the "support" for the "victims"?

I know I am not wrong here. :AMR1:

an essay was written recently called "Same Sex Marriage Tyranny" (Farah, 2014) , about this very thing.

http://www.wnd.com/2014/08/the-same-sex-marriage-tyranny/

 

[Lighthouse]

Suppose a homosexual couple goes to a bakery and orders a cake for their wedding. If the baker bakes them a cake knowing that the cake is for the wedding of a homosexual couple, does this mean that the baker is giving approval to their marriage? Does this mean that the baker is celebrating the marriage with the homosexual couple?

Generally yes, but sometimes people are desperate or scared of the repercussions of standing up for their beliefs.

Hey moron... if you don't like a topic keep your stupid mouth shut and go away.

:thumb:

No. But if he bakes a cake for homos, this means that he is just as gay as the couple is.

And that's the terrible fear that most homophobes carry around with them:

Even men like Mel Gibson sometimes have to face the horrible truth that their life is a sham and they have always been gay.
And apparently, it can happen in an instant.

you are an idiot.

If you are operating a public business, the sign over the door invites all members of the public in. You would have no right to assume they came in just to annoy you.

If you were operating a private bakery, as a club or co-op, the gay couple could not buy your wares without being a member, and to become a member, you would have had to tell them of your biased policies against gays. In which case they either would not join, or you would exclude them from joining, and no such cake would ever be requested.
It doesn't matter what you know about them. What matters is that you are operating a business, which is purporting to trade with people. How you have chosen to present your proposed trade is what decides how you have to behave when a trade is requested.

Commerce is not about how you feel, or who you like or don't like. It's about what you are offering for trade, how you are offering it, and how you are fulfilling your side of the bargain. Businesses are not churches, and commerce is not a form of religion, nor a popularity contest.

In fair trade you reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason.

 

[Dialogos]

There are no "Christian bakeries".

Says who?

If a baker considers his business a "Christian bakery" then it is a "Christian bakery."

And who are you to say they can't make that determination?

This is the whole problem, right here.

Once upon a time, business licenses were granted so that people could conduct business in a way that was safe for the populace and so that taxes could be collected.

Now, a business license is another tool used for social engineering.

In order to maintain a business license you have to participate in religious ceremonies against your conscience.

What you don't get to do, in either case, is stand behind the counter passing judgment on anyone you happen to entice through the door.

I see, so there are implied "no judgment" clauses in business licenses now?

Not only does the first amendment give the baker the right stand behind the counter and pass judgment on sexual perverts who walks through the door the "Christian baker" has a moral obligation to make right judgments (John 7:24), he or she is morally bound to abhor what is evil (Rom 12:9) and the bible forbids them to take part in a perverted gay wedding ceremony saying "Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. (Ephesians 5:11).

Bottom line, our government has cross the line the first amendment was written to maintain.

 

[PureX]

No, I am not.

Have you not seen the monetary awards of the past few years? And the "support" for the "victims"?

I know I am not wrong here.

The solution is insanely obvious and easy. Just grow up! … Bake the cake.

Or …

If you just GOTTA punish those queers, then be ready to pay the price for wanting to wallow in your self-righteousness.

 

[Lighthouse]

The solution is insanely obvious and easy. Just grow up! … Bake the cake.

Or …

If you just GOTTA punish those queers, then be ready to pay the price for wanting to wallow in your self-righteousness.

The self-righteous one here is you, for you certainly do not display any of His.

 

[PureX]

Says who?

If a baker considers his business a "Christian bakery" then it is a "Christian bakery."

Not unless he licenses and advertises it as such, which means as a private co-op or club.

And who are you to say they can't make that determination?

Commercial law makes that determination, as created and supported by the vast majority of your fellow citizens. I know their will doesn't count for anything to the mighty-righteous Christian, especially when they're busy passing God's mighty judgment on all mankind, but nevertheless, they are that "we the people" that determined how commerce is to be conducted in their own land.

This is the whole problem, right here.

Yes, I know. These Christians think they're the physical embodiment of God's right hand, and yet they live in a society that just won't accept their mighty judgments! What are they to do?!

Once upon a time, business licenses were granted so that people could conduct business in a way that was safe for the populace and so that taxes could be collected.

Now, a business license is another tool used for social engineering.

In order to maintain a business license you have to participate in religious ceremonies against your conscience.

No, you don't. You don't even have to bake gay guys a wedding cake. You just don't get to lie and cheat people because you think you're morally superior to them.

 

[Rusha]

No one is regulating thought. That's not even possible. They are regulating behavior, which is the purpose of social law.

Uh huh. That's exactly what you should have picked up from my posts. As a business owner, I regulate the behavior of the customers when they come INTO my business. You seem to believe that customers right to act like disorderly, instigating trolls trumps the business owners right to tell them to stick it.

I reserve the right to deny service to instigating trolls regardless of how they pretend it MUST be a bias.

Stop pretending you know what criteria and reasons others use. Thought Officer.

 

[PureX]

Uh huh. That's exactly what you should have picked up from my posts. As a business owner, I regulate the behavior of the customers when they come INTO my business.

Well, there's you. And then theres the society you're living in. And in this case, your society is regulating your behavior toward them. And if you pick a fight with them, you're almost certainly gonna lose.

You seem to believe that customers right to act like disorderly, instigating trolls trumps the business owners right to tell them to stick it.

All they are is gay. All they're doing is accepting your offer to bake cakes in exchange for money. They have done nothing "trollish or disorderly". In fact, they have done exactly what your whole business has been set up to accommodate, if it is a public commercial baking business.

I reserve the right to deny service to instigating trolls regardless of how they pretend it MUST be a bias.

And the general public has reserved the right to punish those who lie to them and cheat them via commercial interaction. So if that's what you're wanting to do, and it certainly seems to be, then you should be prepared to pay the consequences.