Author of the epistle to the Hebrews.

[oatmeal]

We have Paul's own statement about his epistles.


2 Thessalonians 3:17 KJV
(17) The salutation of Paul with mine own hand, which is the token in every epistle: so I write.



[/INDENT]
In the entire book of Hebrews ....... the name of Paul shows up ZERO times.

Most assuredly your list of Paul's epistles make certain which epistles he put his name on

Does II Thes 3:17 say

a. if I wrote it, it will always start with my name or have my name in it

b. my name is a token that I wrote it in every situation without exception

c. I will include my name where appropriate


God authored all scripture, He alone is the sole author of all scripture, II Timothy 3:16

Every word, every letter, every jot and tittle.

Did God author the book of Esther? God is not named once in the book of Esther. Are you going to conclude that God did not author the book of Esther?

The record of Peter cutting the ear of a man, does every gospel name who that was? No, not every gospel, in fact only in John is he named as the one. Why? John is supposedly written down last chronologically. Had the danger passed, thus he could be named?

There are documents, notes, whatever that you have written that do not have your name on it. Ie, grocery lists... Is that proof that you have not written them? that someone else wrote them?

Most assuredly your list of Paul's epistles make certain which epistles he put his name on, but your verse from Thessalonians does not put it in the absolute.

 

[oatmeal]

Truster,

All that I have been taught from scripture agrees with your conclusion, that Paul is the writer of Hebrews.

God authored all scripture, but in the case of Hebrews as with epistles with his identifying name, Paul was the writer.

 

[oatmeal]

What kinda bothers me is that you think this makes good sense, especially considering the boldness of Paul, even unto death.
Not to mention that the unconverted Jews would have wanted to destroy all his epistles, so if your logic follows, then Paul would have been leery to put his name on any of them.
And then there is the problem with aligning this with your other posts suggesting that it's obvious Paul did write it by the context of it. If he's going to write it in a way that makes it obvious that it's from him ..... then why leave off his name?

To me this argument is extremely weak and overtly speculative.

Most certainly Paul would be considered bold in most circumstances, he certainly exhibited boldness many a time.

But he was as human as the rest of us. His boldness was not always forthcoming without some encouragement.

Paul needed encouragement especially after all the brutality he endured for the gospel.

Acts 18:9-10

9 Then spake the Lord to Paul in the night by a vision, Be not afraid, but speak, and hold not thy peace:

10 For I am with thee, and no man shall set on thee to hurt thee: for I have much people in this city.

 

[oatmeal]

Hebrews 2:3 KJV
(3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;



This verse refers to the author as having heard what was spoken by Jesus from those that heard Jesus during His earthly ministry.
This description doesn't seem to fit Paul, who tells us that he heard his revelation NOT from any men, nor did he seek the apostles that had been with Jesus :AMR1: , but from the risen Lord Himself.
:e4e:

Have you heard any of the words spoken by Jesus Christ during his earthly ministry?

Did you read the last phrase of your verse?

and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

What was comfirmed?

To whom was it confirmed?

Who confirmed it?

 

[Truster]

Truster,

All that I have been taught from scripture agrees with your conclusion, that Paul is the writer of Hebrews.

God authored all scripture, but in the case of Hebrews as with epistles with his identifying name, Paul was the writer.

Initial statement withdraw after reading the post on free will directed at paté.

 

[Tambora]

It has been suggested that because of the persecutions and hatred directed at Paul by the unconverted Jews. He purposely left his mane out of the epistle. Otherwise those persecutors would have destroyed it. This was the belief of the early church fathers, as they are so called.

CORRECTION:
This was the view of SOME of the early church fathers, as some did not hold the view that Paul wrote Hebrews.
And most all of them (on either side) readily admitted that their view was not conclusive enough to make it fact.

Pile on top of all that is the vast expanse of texts discovered since the early church fathers that more folks have ready access to these days, it's hard to find many modern day scholars that still think Paul wrote Hebrews.

 

[Tambora]

But he was as human as the rest of us. His boldness was not always forthcoming without some encouragement.

We don't study scripture by "what might have been", but by what scripture actually tells us.

Your funky "what might have been" approach has led you to all kinds of errors that you hold on to as if they are fact of scripture, when it it really nothing more than your "what might have been" ASSUMPTIONS..

 

[Truster]

CORRECTION:
This was the view of SOME of the early church fathers, as some did not hold the view that Paul wrote Hebrews.
And most all of them (on either side) readily admitted that their view was not conclusive enough to make it fact.

Pile on top of all that is the vast expanse of texts discovered since the early church fathers that more folks have ready access to these days, it's hard to find many modern day scholars that still think Paul wrote Hebrews.

The fact that not many "modern day scholars" think that Paul is the author the more encouraged I am to dig further.

Please give me the names of the early church fathers that denied Paul as being the author. Because we know there were a number of heretics who not only denied this, but also the Divine authority of the epistle.

 

[Nihilo]

Regardless of who penned this epistle, how does the author justify this: "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace?" Hebrews 4:16 (KJV)

How can anybody come boldly unto the throne? Upon the throne sits the Sovereign, so in what way could anybody come unto Him boldly? He is the Maker. Nobody ought to ever dare to come boldly unto Him, so why does the author of Hebrews implore their audience to do so?

 

[Truster]

Regardless of who penned this epistle, how does the author justify this: "Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace?" Hebrews 4:16 (KJV)

How can anybody come boldly unto the throne? Upon the throne sits the Sovereign, so in what way could anybody come unto Him boldly? He is the Maker. Nobody ought to ever dare to come boldly unto Him, so why does the author of Hebrews implore their audience to do so?

Not only do I come boldly I have had some arguments. I've brought His word, His promises and His judgements to His attention. For instance. When I hear the wicked declaring that they are going to have a great time. I enquire as to how this can be? Hast Thou not said that there shall be no peace unto the wicked? I point out that the wicked are denying His ability to take away their peace through enjoyments. So when the wicked in this area find their plans going to pot they can blame it on boasting in front of a man who goes boldly to the Throne of Grace.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Hebrews 2:3 KJV
(3) How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;



This verse refers to the author as having heard what was spoken by Jesus from those that heard Jesus during His earthly ministry.
This description doesn't seem to fit Paul, who tells us that he heard his revelation NOT from any men, nor did he seek the apostles that had been with Jesus :AMR1: , but from the risen Lord Himself.
:e4e:

1 Corinthians 9


21

To those without the Law I became like one without the Law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the Law.

22

To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men, so that by all possible means I might save some of them.

23

I do all this for the sake of the gospel, so that I may share in its blessings.…

 

[Nihilo]

Not only do I come boldly I have had some arguments. I've brought His word, His promises and His judgements to His attention. For instance. When I hear the wicked declaring that they are going to have a great time. I enquire as to how this can be? Hast Thou not said that there shall be no peace unto the wicked? I point out that the wicked are denying His ability to take away their peace through enjoyments. So when the wicked in this area find their plans going to pot they can blame it on boasting in front of a man who goes boldly to the Throne of Grace.

You are the wicked. Unless you're claiming to be without sin? Do you never commit any immorality whatsoever? Nothing? Not a bad thought here or there?

How can the wicked come boldly unto the throne?

 

[Truster]

You are the wicked. Unless you're claiming to be without sin? Do you never commit any immorality whatsoever? Nothing? Not a bad thought here or there?

How can the wicked come boldly unto the throne?

Where did I say I was without sin?

Do you really think that prayer is only to ask for forgiveness of sin?

You have never prayed.

 

[Nihilo]

Where did I say I was without sin?

Good.

Do you really think that prayer is only to ask for forgiveness of sin?

No.

You have never prayed.

False.

 

[Hawkins]

Romans 1:1 …....first word = Paul
1 Corinthians 1:1 first word = Paul
2 Corinthians 1:1 first word = Paul
Galatians 1:1 …first word = Paul
Ephesians 1:1 ..first word = Paul
Philippians 1:1 first word = Paul
Colossians 1:1 first word = Paul
1 Thessalonians 1:1 first word = Paul
2 Thessalonians 1:1 first word = Paul
1 Timothy 1:1 …first word = Paul
2 Timothy 1:1 …first word = Paul
Titus 1:1 ……first word = Paul
Philemon 1:1 first word = Paul
Hebrews 1:1 first word = God

Paul's letters are specifically addressing a group of audience. He wrote letters in Greek to a church or a specific group of audience such as Christians in Rome. That's why he has to mention his own name to signify that it's Paul who is talking to you. Hebrew is more like a general article instead of a letter addressing a specific group of people.

It is possible that Paul may have drafted an article in Hebrew for Hebrews. Yet Peter seems to be a more legitimate person to write to the Hebrew speaking Jews. Perhaps under the circumstance Paul didn't formally send out his letter but rather treated it as a general article and had found someone with bright Greek to translate it from Hebrew to Greek.

In the end, disregarding the writing style and the lack of 'Paul' inside the article, the theological technicality contents may still from Paul.

 

[Truster]

Paul's letters are specifically addressing a group of audience. He wrote letters in Greek to a church or a specific group of audience such as Christians in Rome. That's why he has to mention his own name to signify that it's Paul who is talking to you. Hebrew is more like a general article instead of a letter addressing a specific group of people.

It is possible that Paul may have drafted an article in Hebrew for Hebrews. Yet Peter seems to be a more legitimate person to write to the Hebrew speaking Jews. Perhaps under the circumstance Paul didn't formally send out his letter but rather treat it as a general article and have found someone with bright Greek to translate it from Hebrew to Greek.

Thanks for that contribution.

 

[beameup]

Paul's letters are specifically addressing a group of audience. He wrote letters in Greek to a church or a specific group of audience such as Christians in Rome. That's why he has to mention his own name to signify that it's Paul who is talking to you. Hebrew is more like a general article instead of a letter addressing a specific group of people.

It is possible that Paul may have drafted an article in Hebrew for Hebrews. Yet Peter seems to be a more legitimate person to write to the Hebrew speaking Jews. Perhaps under the circumstance Paul didn't formally send out his letter but rather treated it as a general article and had found someone with bright Greek to translate it from Hebrew to Greek.

In the end, disregarding the writing style and the lack of 'Paul' inside the article, the theological technicality contents may still from Paul.

convoluted: extremely complex and difficult to follow.
I'm sure there is a much simpler and more "logical" conclusion concerning Hebrews.

From the language, the author was someone of authority and highly respected by the Jewish community.
Paul was not "highly respected by the Jewish community".

 

[meshak]

Where did I say I was without sin?

Do you really think that prayer is only to ask for forgiveness of sin?

You have never prayed.

You claim to be saint and holy.

If you are not sinless, you cannot be holy.

Another inconsistency.

 

[JudgeRightly]

You claim to be saint and holy.

If you are not sinless, you cannot be holy.

Another inconsistency.

Saint means that one is made holy by the blood of Christ.

Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. - 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:20-21&version=NKJV

 

[meshak]

Saint means that one is made holy by the blood of Christ.

Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. - 2 Corinthians 5:20-21 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians5:20-21&version=NKJV

How about holy?

Do you claim to be holy too?