As They Hate Me, They Will Hate You Too

[beanieboy]

The verse says, "As they hate me, they will hate you, too," meaning, that in the manner that they hated Christ, they will hate you.

Christ was hated. He was hated by the Pharisees because he challenged those who claimed to know God and speak on God's authority. Christ was a bit of a heretic, saying, "you have read...but I tell you..."

He was hated because he told people that the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Those in power would have none in heaven, while those with no power would be able to rule heaven. People in power didn't like that.

He told parables about the seed choked by the rocks of wealth and greed, told how difficult it is for the wealthy man to enter heaven, but said, 'blessed are the poor." The wealthy people didn't like being challenged, and they had power that he threatened.

Let me use a modern day example.

President Carter has been involved with Habitat for Humanity, an organization that calls on volunteers to help build houses and provided housing for people that need it.

Conservative and self proclaimed moralist and Christian Rusch LImbaugh mockingly calls him "The Carpenter President."

Ironically, Jesus was a Carpenter as well. Yet, Rusch hates Carter, who is following in the way of Christ in loving his fellow man, and being seen as a fool for doing good deeds without gaining wealth from it.

If you are hated for that, then you should feel elated.

Hitler is hated. That doesn't make him close to Jesus.
Martin Luther King, Jr. did good, but was persecuted and eventually killed for justice sake, similar to Christ.

 

[Nineveh]

He was hated because people generally love their sin and hate God.

 

[Granite]

He violated the status quo and stirred the pot. That's enough to make sure you'll draw unwanted attention.

 

[beanieboy]

Why did people hate Martin Luther King, Jr.?

Did the people releasing dogs and water hoses on the people peacefully protesting "love their sin"?
Those people claimed to love Jesus. So what gives?

 

[beanieboy]

Let me point out that Jesus wasn't hated by everyone.

He wasn't hated by his disciples.
People were flocking around to see him.
They were laying palm branches done for him.
Children wanted to go sit on his lap.

He was loved as well.

I simply think there is danger to try to get others to hate you as a way of being closer to God.

The verse, I believe, is that one should do the will of God, and understand that many will hate you for it, just as Christ was hated for taking away the power of those who wanted to keep others oppressed.

That's why Carter is mocked by Limbaugh - not for what he's doing wrong, but for what he's doing right.

 

[Zakath]

Why did people hate Martin Luther King, Jr.?

Did the people releasing dogs and water hoses on the people peacefully protesting "love their sin"?
Those people claimed to love Jesus. So what gives?

I lived through that time. IIRC, both sides claimed to "love Jesus".

 

[Granite]

Why did people hate Martin Luther King, Jr.?

Did the people releasing dogs and water hoses on the people peacefully protesting "love their sin"?
Those people claimed to love Jesus. So what gives?

They must not have been the Real Christians, beanie.

 

[beanieboy]

I lived through that time. IIRC, both sides claimed to "love Jesus".

Ironic that both sides claimed to love Jesus, yet were at odds with each other.

 

[cattyfan]

The verse says, "As they hate me, they will hate you, too," meaning, that in the manner that they hated Christ, they will hate you.

Christ was hated. He was hated by the Pharisees because he challenged those who claimed to know God and speak on God's authority. Christ was a bit of a heretic, saying, "you have read...but I tell you..."

He was hated because he told people that the first shall be last and the last shall be first. Those in power would have none in heaven, while those with no power would be able to rule heaven. People in power didn't like that.

He told parables about the seed choked by the rocks of wealth and greed, told how difficult it is for the wealthy man to enter heaven, but said, 'blessed are the poor." The wealthy people didn't like being challenged, and they had power that he threatened.

Let me use a modern day example.

President Carter has been involved with Habitat for Humanity, an organization that calls on volunteers to help build houses and provided housing for people that need it.

Conservative and self proclaimed moralist and Christian Rusch LImbaugh mockingly calls him "The Carpenter President."

Ironically, Jesus was a Carpenter as well. Yet, Rusch hates Carter, who is following in the way of Christ in loving his fellow man, and being seen as a fool for doing good deeds without gaining wealth from it.

If you are hated for that, then you should feel elated.

Hitler is hated. That doesn't make him close to Jesus.
Martin Luther King, Jr. did good, but was persecuted and eventually killed for justice sake, similar to Christ.

Let me get this straight...you're actually trying to compare Carter and King to Christ????
What are you smokin'?

First, Rush doesn't make fun of Carter because Carter is doing chartiy work. Rush makes fun of Carter for a myriad of reasons, but they are all related to politics.

The Hitler thing you threw in was a non sequitur...

As for MLK, you state he was killed for justice, and claim killing Jesus was also for justice. There was nothing "just" about either man's death. And make no mistake: MLK may have done some important things, but he is no Christ. Both men were killed for politics, not justice.

And don't try to diminish Jesus by lumping men like Carter and King into some category with him. It's more than insulting.

 

[PureX]

cattyfan, nice avatar!

 

[Aimiel]

Being loved by the world is to be at enmity with The Lord. God is opposed to the proud. Those who are still in the world are lost, and they hate The Truth. Jesus is The Embodiment of All Truth. The Lord's Spirit inside of a believer is what causes an un-believer to hate him, and this often occurs before either one of them even opens their mouth.

 

[cattyfan]

cattyfan, nice avatar!

thanks! It's from the front of an Andreas Vollenweider CD.

 

[Free-Agent Smith]

Sorry, last time I checked the Spanish Inquisition didn't kill "conservative Christians." Try again.

Smith, I don't hate you or anyone else here, and dismissing criticism as "hate" is hyperbole and inaccurate. If your skin is this thin you need to get out more.

Maybe you should check on who some of those people were that were targeted by the Inquisition.

 

[Free-Agent Smith]

That's big of you, Smitty. I don't hate you either. :nono:

Why would you accept a perspective or belief system you didn't agree with? That sounds either weak-willed or disingenuous, to me.

Aww, stop whining. :doh: You "Christians" live in a country in which thousands of sects of your religion are free to call each other names, condemn each other to hell, picket each other's activities, etc. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they hate you or are actively persecuting you...

When persecution actually exists it's usually for reasons of power. For example, your system of beliefs and morals doesn't negatively impact me in the slightest until you try to mandate it for everyone else by making it into law. As the old saying goes, your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins. Once you injure me or my family, I will oppose you every step of the way until you back down.

I think that many non-Christaans, myself included, would agree with such a statement. Your problem is that you seek to create a false dichotomy - an "us versus them" demarkation based solely on religious belief. Christians are a minority of the world's population and to, even in hyperbole, propose that they maintain the corner on moral thinking and behavior is simply not supportable by observation of the people around the world.

Not by me. Christians only feel prejudice from me when they attempt to force their religion down my throat; as I mentioned above.

The Spanish Inquisition slaughtered hundreds of people, many who were not Christian. People were dying in the arenas before the founders of Christianity were born. And let's not forget that one conservative Protestant country, Switzerland, exiled hundreds and executed up to 40 Anabaptists during the mid- to late-16th century. Protestant courts also stripped Anabaptists of their property, declared children of Anabaptist marriages illegitimate and confiscating the estates. By the end of the 17th century Christians not practicing state-approved religion risked being flogged, branded, sentenced as galley slaves, and if too old to row, imprisoned for life. (Excerpts from the Mennonite Encyclopedia)

I don't know. Ask your fellow pacifist Christians who oppose the death penalty... :think:

- Orthodox Church Leader

- United Church of Christ

- United Methodist Church

and two very conservative Christian groups,

- Society of Friends (Quakers)

- Mennonite

You call them Christian. They call themselves Christian. As a whole I won't because as a whole I don't believe they are.

 

[Free-Agent Smith]

Dang, look at the pagans coming to corect me.

 

[Granite]

Maybe you should check on who some of those people were that were targeted by the Inquisition.

You must be referring to the pro-life medieval Republicans opposed to high taxes and government spending.

The Spanish Inquisition targeted Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and anyone else who crossed the Inquisition. I don't know what point you're trying to make here (although my point would be this: give the church political authority and it will ALWAYS abuse it; history tells us this without exception).

I don't understand why criticism of Christianity automatically becomes "hatred" in your book. Or: where does "criticism" stop and "hatred" begin, in your opinion? How long can somebody critique Christianity until they "hate" it, in your book?

 

[beanieboy]

Let me get this straight...you're actually trying to compare Carter and King to Christ????
What are you smokin'?

First, Rush doesn't make fun of Carter because Carter is doing chartiy work. Rush makes fun of Carter for a myriad of reasons, but they are all related to politics.

The Hitler thing you threw in was a non sequitur...

As for MLK, you state he was killed for justice, and claim killing Jesus was also for justice. There was nothing "just" about either man's death. And make no mistake: MLK may have done some important things, but he is no Christ. Both men were killed for politics, not justice.

And don't try to diminish Jesus by lumping men like Carter and King into some category with him. It's more than insulting.

I didn't claim that MLK was Jesus.
I said that MLK died to help free people. He died because he stood up for his beliefs. He died for selfless reasons.
The bible says, "There is no greater love than one who gives his life for another."
King knew that if he fought for the rights of African Americans, he ran the chance of getting killed. But he did it anyway, because it was the right thing to do.

He behaved like Christ. He was not CHRIST. He behaved Christ-like.

As Christ commanded.

I point it out, and you get angry.

odd.

 

[Free-Agent Smith]

You must be referring to the pro-life medieval Republicans opposed to high taxes and government spending.

The Spanish Inquisition targeted Jews, Muslims, Protestants, and anyone else who crossed the Inquisition. I don't know what point you're trying to make here (although my point would be this: give the church political authority and it will ALWAYS abuse it; history tells us this without exception).

I don't understand why criticism of Christianity automatically becomes "hatred" in your book. Or: where does "criticism" stop and "hatred" begin, in your opinion? How long can somebody critique Christianity until they "hate" it, in your book?

I don't understand why criticism of pagasnism automatically becomes "hatred" to so many people. Or: where does "criticism" stop and "hatred" begin, in your opinion? How long can Christians be judgemental, according to their beliefs, until they "hate" it, according to everyone else's opinion??

 

[Granite]

I don't understand why criticism of pagasnism automatically becomes "hatred" to so many people. Or: where does "criticism" stop and "hatred" begin, in your opinion? How long can Christians be judgemental, according to their beliefs, until they "hate" it, according to everyone else's opinion??

Smith, I'm asking you a question. I would hope that you had the courtesy to answer it, but unfortunately it doesn't look like you're interested in having a discussion here. That's your problem, not mine.

You people are incapable of having a back and forth debate the longer a discussion goes on; at some point, you just throw up the wall and refuse to act like adults. Instead, you just lock and dig your heels in.

 

[Free-Agent Smith]

I didn't claim that MLK was Jesus.
I said that MLK died to help free people. He died because he stood up for his beliefs. He died for selfless reasons.
The bible says, "There is no greater love than one who gives his life for another."
King knew that if he fought for the rights of African Americans, he ran the chance of getting killed. But he did it anyway, because it was the right thing to do.

He behaved like Christ. He was not CHRIST. He behaved Christ-like.

As Christ commanded.

I point it out, and you get angry.

odd.

I don't care what you point out. Get back in your closet. This isn't about people like Hitler or King.