ECT Article gets "the mystery" wrong

[Danoh]

Great post on your Acts 13 position, by the way. Brought out some great distinctions on some of those other things you pointed out in that post.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

LA likes to think she knows it all. However, she knows very little and even
less than that.

Typical evil worker.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

John W, my own sense of "it was hid from" the Twelve is that it is in the sense of their having been unable to understand what He was talking about. Thus, this passage...

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

You got it.

LA

 

[Danoh]

You got it.

LA

Respectfully, not in the way you see that.

 

[john w]

The Temple taught the sacrifices for sin to Israel for centuries.

It was hid from everyone, prior to its occurrence:


LALaw: My father the devil tells me to deny it, even though I've been shown it was hidden

Also it is evident from Luke 24 that Christ opened their understanding of the scriptures to explain salvation well before Paul ever heard of it.
...

Yes, you idiot-"These are the words....Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.."=the words he did tell them, he was assuring them, that they were to be fulfilled-but He did not tell them that he would die....be raised again-it was hid from them, embarrassment...

Luke 18 KJV

31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.



Read it, wicked droid:"this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken"


"....Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures."

=after the fact-not before.


You can't be this stupid.

You are satanic.

"this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken"

It was hid from everyone, prior to its occurrence:


LALaw: My father the devil tells me to deny it, even though I've been shown it was hidden

 

[Interplanner]

You got it.

LA

If you think about it, it is the same sense as Eph 3:5--that the mystery is non longer mysterious 'through the Gospel.' It is very clear that Judaism then (and many mutations of it now) treat all those passages in their 'ordinary' sense and never come to the realization that they are about the Gospel/Christ.

When the NT says 'The disciples were not educated' like the Pharisees and scribes, it does not mean that they were free of Judaism. We know this from Jn 12:34 where the crowd assumes that the Law and Prophets had a 'Christ' who would rule a theocracy. So the Pharisee derision of the common person as a crowd was a paradox and was hypocritical. Learned or not, they did not get what Christ/Paul were unified in saying.

 

[john w]

John W, my own sense of "it was hid from" the Twelve is that it is in the sense of their having been unable to understand what He was talking about. Thus, this passage...

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Huh? It was hid from them. They had no idea that He was going to die, much less be raised. "Then he..." They were preaching the gospel/good news of the kingdom, for 3 years, and had no clue re. the dbr.

"These are the words....Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.."=the words he did tell them, he was assuring them, that they were to be fulfilled-but He did not tell them that he would die....be raised again-it was hid from them...

 

[Dialogos]

Let's look at the facts concerning who preached it first. It's not too hard to see that the gospel that is preached of Paul is not after man, neither was he taught it, but by revelation of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

So what does this mean? Does it mean that no-one preached this gospel until Paul?

:nono:

It means, as other translations make clear, that Paul's gospel was not a man-made gospel.

But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. (Gal 1:11 NKJ)​

Galatians 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

And Paul was taught the gospel through revelation. Paul didn't answer an invitation given by an apostle, he was confronted directly by the Lord Jesus on the road to Damascus.

That takes care of the foolish notion that John preached it first!

Only if you distort the meaning of Gal 1:11.

It's also not too hard to show that Paul's gospel was a mystery hidden in the scriptures until given by the revelation of Jesus Christ!


Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen.

This verse says exactly the opposite. It says that He has the power to establish those who believe through the preaching of Jesus Christ.

Was Paul the first person to preach Jesus Christ?

:nono:

It was a mystery: for had the princes of this world known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

1 Corinthians 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory: 8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Interpreting verses in context is really important.
Paul is not saying what Heir is putting into his mouth. Paul is not saying that the gospel was a mystery because he was the first person to preach it, Paul is saying that the gospel is a mystery until the Holy Spirit reveals it, regardless of who preaches it.

That's why Paul says in 1 Cor 2:10 that "these things" are revealed through the Spirit and its why Paul says that the gospel continues to be a mystery to those of natural minds who cannot/do not accept the things of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:14).

Also, the fact that Paul was given a dispensation of the grace of God with that gospel to us-ward (Gentiles such as we Ephesians 2:11-12), was a mystery, not hidden in the scriptures ("according to the scriptures") as the gospel of Christ, but hid in God! It was unsearchable! It is the manifold wisdom of God! This is the mystery of the gospel!

So this is what Heir claims. Now lets look at the scripture.

Ephesians 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; 9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

First, the mystery that Paul refers to in verses 3 is the mystery of the inclusion of the gentiles as members of the same body, heirs, and partakers of the promise of Christ through the gospel.

Second, it doesn't say that it was revealed solely to Paul. In fact, it says that it is revealed to His Holy Apostles and Prophets.
Apostles (plural) and Prophets (plural). That pretty much dispenses with the myth that Paul and only Paul received some unique revelation of a gospel that was different than the gospel the other apostles received.

 

[john w]

If you think about it, it is the same sense as Eph 3:5--that the mystery is non longer mysterious ....

You are employing the secular definition of the word "mystery," i.e., "spooky....not being able to be understood..."

That is not the biblical definition, what it meant at the time.

 

[Danoh]

Huh? It was hid from them. They had no idea that He was going to die, much less be raised. "Then he..." They were preaching the gospel/good news of the kingdom, for 3 years, and had no clue re. the dbr.

"These are the words....Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.."=the words he did tell them, he was assuring them, that they were to be fulfilled-but He did not tell them that he would die....be raised again-it was hid from them...

Lol, mine's a bit of a different view, for a Mid-Actser; isn't it, dear brother.

 

[ClimateSanity]

How mid Acts could you be if you think the disciples were told about his death, burial and resurrection and the reason for it but simply could not understand?

 

[heir]

:rotfl - you mean like how you go on as if some of the views you hold to as being Mid-Acts are held to as Mid-Acts by all within. Mid-Acts; never relating that their are differences in understanding?

I'll take that as you hold fast to no position then...how odd.

2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, Philippians 1:9-10 KJV

 

[heir]

The weak article does not even "use" the KJB so we know right away that it is watered down at best.

The writer has "the mystery" as:

THE MYSTERY IDENTIFIED (in Ephesians)

(1) Full Equality between Jew and Gentile

After discussing how he came to know the mystery in Ephesians 3:3-5, Paul then gives a definitive description of the mystery in vs. 6:"to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow-heirs and fellow-members of the body, and fellow-partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel."

The Gentiles were to be "fellow-heirs", "fellow-members" and "fellow-partakers" ..with whom? We need not guess at this, for Paul clearly means that the Gentiles are "fellow-heirs", etc with the Jews. This is confirmed for us in the context (Eph. 2:12-16).

Those that 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV should know the above is wrong as Ephesians 3:6 KJV is "the mystery of the gospel" (Ephesians 6:19 KJV), it is a mystery much later revealed than Acts 9, when the Body of Christ began with the saving of Paul (1 Timothy 1:13-16 KJV), and the one new man is not as the writer supposes as 1. Jews and 2. Gentiles.

The article is a mess.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

It was hid from everyone, prior to its occurrence:





Yes, you idiot-"These are the words....Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures.."=the words he did tell them, he was assuring them, that they were to be fulfilled-but He did not tell them that he would die....be raised again-it was hid from them, embarrassment...

It certainly was not hid from them after Jesus opened their understanding to the scriptures about Himself, after His resurrection.

Thus proving that the 12 knew all bout the cross and its reasons well before Paul had heard of it.

Anyway the Temple procedures taught it all.

LA

 

[Lazy afternoon]

How mid Acts could you be if you think the disciples were told about his death, burial and resurrection and the reason for it but simply could not understand?

MAD (mid acts) ignores all evidence.

The truth is still hid to them.

LA

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

Typical evil worker.

Does this mean you'll be placing another "death prediction" on me?
That's the only thing you're good for on this forum.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

MAD (mid acts) ignores all evidence.

The truth is still hid to them.

LA

You don't even know what mid acts means? In fact, you don't
know much of anything. And, far less than anything imaginable.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

It certainly was not hid from them after Jesus opened their understanding to the scriptures about Himself, after His resurrection.

Thus proving that the 12 knew all bout the cross and its reasons well before Paul had heard of it.

Anyway the Temple procedures taught it all.

LA

I'm surprised your brain can even tell your legs how to put
one foot after the other?

 

[Danoh]

I'll take that as you hold fast to no position then...how odd.

2 Timothy 1:13 KJV, 2 Timothy 2:15 KJV, Philippians 1:9-10 KJV

There is the source of your failure - you're taking another's words to mean such and so, followed by your running with that, convinced you read their intent right.

Lets call that "Behold, thou art called a Jew" eyetis, lol

Its how you got that passage - Rom. 2:17 - wrong, lol

Seriously, heir, I bear you no ill will. I simply differ with you on some things, as well as prefer not to make those differences the basis for animosity that you obviously find difficult to avoid.

The best to you in that...

 

[heir]

There is the source of your failure - you're taking another's words to mean such and so, followed by your running with that, convinced you read their intent right.

Seriously, heir, I bear you no ill will. I simply differ with you on some things, as well as prefer not to make those differences the basis for animosity that you obviously find difficult to avoid.

The best to you in that...

Is the writer of the article wrong and are you in agreement with him when he states:

"Error #1 --- The Mystery is Christ's substitutionary death on the
cross.

I can unequivocally state that he is wrong and I am not in agreement with him as he is not in agreement with the scriptures. Can you? What do you believe?

Lets call that "Behold, thou art called a Jew" eyetis, lol

Its how you got that passage - Rom. 2:17 - wrong, lol

I am in agreement with the scriptures that Paul was speaking to Gentiles (specifically there a proselyte Romans 1:13 KJV, Romans 2:17 KJV, Romans 2:25 KJV, Romans 11:13 KJV, ) when he wrote that. And look at you mocking me about it instead of putting up what YOU believe.

Put up or shut up!