ok doser
lifeguard at the cement pond
You seem to think that unrepentant sinners should be forgiven for refusing to repent.
he's kinda stupid that way, ain't he? :kookoo:
You seem to think that unrepentant sinners should be forgiven for refusing to repent.
He has to repent of his homosexuality before he can be forgiven.
Luke 17:4
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
You seem to think that unrepentant sinners should be forgiven for refusing to repent.
Yes, I do. Because forgiveness with demands and strings is not forgiveness. It's just manipulation pretending to be forgiveness. And God is not fooled, even if you are.You seem to think that unrepentant sinners should be forgiven for refusing to repent.
Yes, I do. Because forgiveness with demands and strings is not forgiveness. It's just manipulation pretending to be forgiveness. And God is not fooled, even if you are.
John 8:11 ...go and sin no more
John 8:11 ...it's all good - sin all you want
Yes, I do. Because forgiveness with demands and strings is not forgiveness. It's just manipulation pretending to be forgiveness. And God is not fooled, even if you are.
If you came home to find your wife in bed having sex with another man, would you forgive her with no demands and no strings?
You wouldn't expect her to ask for forgiveness or to say she wouldn't do it again?
What if she said that she was going to continue having sex with other men and that you just need to learn to live with it.
Would you tell her that it is not a problem, you forgive her, and she can keep doing it as long as she wants?
Because these church members all believe their sins don't stink as much as his. ...
What a pack of Pharisees, feeding their own righteousness with the blood of their condemned and outcast sinners!
He has to repent of his homosexuality before he can be forgiven.
Luke 17:4
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
You seem to think that unrepentant sinners should be forgiven for refusing to repent.
And yet, Jesus still said 'go and sin no more'.No, my "picture of Jesus" is being derived from the overall essence of his message, not the legalistic religious minutia. Jesus was murdered by his own Jewish "church". Yet modern Christians are all tripping over themselves trying to adhere to every jot and tittle of ancient Jewish religious dogma. And in the process they are still murdering Jesus in their hearts and minds, just as their ancient Jewish mentors did 2000 years ago.
You mean like the 2000 year old Jew named Jesus? Or did that 2000 year old Jew think homosexuality was cool?I don't care that some 2000 year old Jews didn't like homosexuality, and thought it was a sin. Their opinions on the matter mean nothing to me. They have long since shown their true colors and I'm more interested in the essential message of Christ: that God's love acting in us and through us to each other, will heal us and save us from ourselves. And that message goes for homosexuals and sinners of any kind. Of which we are ALL active members.
Then make your case that they are confused and wrong. Accusing them of self-righteousness and bad motives does nothing productive and you don't know their hearts anyway.I have no doubt that they think they are doing the right thing. But that only shows me how sick and confused the worship of religious righteousness makes people. And how wrong. Nothing kills the spirit of God's love and forgiveness in the heart and mind like the illusion of self-righteousness.
I will grant that homosexuality has become an easy and popular target in much of Christianity. However, this isn't really about his sin 'stinking' more than theirs. It's about him embracing the homosexual lifestyle. You'd have a stronger point if he was trying to turn from homosexuality and they still shunned him. Then I'd be with you.Of course. Because these church members all believe their sins don't stink as much as his. They are hypocrites, and they are wrong. They blame him because he refuses to "repent" his homosexuality, while they refuse to even acknowledge their own arrogance, self-righteousness, bigotry, and dishonesty.
Even if all sin is about is motive, you still don't know that they are acting out of bad motives."Good people" are full of bad motives. That's what sin is: "bad motive". And the first step to being a Christian, is to acknowledge that we are riddled with this sin. And to acknowledge that we need constant grace and forgiveness, because of it.
Except this guy doesn't even think he needs forgiveness. Who knows, he might be just as offended and upset if they 'forgave' him for something he didn't feel he needs forgiveness for. Forgiveness implies that the person feels they did something wrong.And once we know we need constant forgiveness for ourselves, we will see that so does everyone else. And that as we forgive them, we will find ourselves forgiven, in turn.
But this church didn't want to forgive the homo, because they don't really believe they need to be forgiven, themselves. Because they the think their sins don't stink as much, or that they don't really sin at all. They haven't even taken the first step of being Christian. Yet they pose themselves as if they are the very hand of God's righteousness.
:shocked:What a pack of Pharisees, feeding their own righteousness with the blood of their condemned and outcast sinners!
I will grant that homosexuality has become an easy and popular target in much of Christianity. However, this isn't really about his sin 'stinking' more than theirs. It's about him embracing the homosexual lifestyle. You'd have a stronger point if he was trying to turn from homosexuality and they still shunned him. Then I'd be with you.
And do you not think there's even a little bit of irony in you accusing those people of being arrogant and self-righteous?
Did he really? We don't know. But it would seem an odd thing for Jesus to say, knowing that it's an impossible command for any human to obey.And yet, Jesus still said 'go and sin no more'.
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality one way or another. And that's because he taught that sin was a state of the heart and mind (spirit), not a condition of our genitals. And his church had him murdered for that.You mean like the 2000 year old Jew named Jesus? Or did that 2000 year old Jew think homosexuality was cool?
My comment was perfectly clear. All you have to do is read it.Then make your case that they are confused and wrong. Accusing them of self-righteousness and bad motives does nothing productive and you don't know their hearts anyway.
I have no doubt that they think they are doing the right thing. But that only shows me how sick and confused the worship of religious righteousness makes people. And how wrong. Nothing kills the spirit of God's love and forgiveness in the heart and mind like the illusion of self-righteousness.
The problem is that you insist on thinking that homosexuality is a sin, when it is not, as I have already explained several times. The sin does not take place in the genitalia. It takes place in the heart and mind, when we seek to exploit and abuse others for our own gain, pleasure, or satisfaction. Anyone can use (abuse) sexuality as an expression of sin, but the sexuality does NOT DEFINE THE SIN. The MOTIVATION defines the sin. You can't seem to grasp this because you are so stuck in your idolatry of ancient Jewish religious texts that express the pre-Christian idea that sin is the breaking of some ancient Jewish religious law.I will grant that homosexuality has become an easy and popular target in much of Christianity. However, this isn't really about his sin 'stinking' more than theirs. It's about him embracing the homosexual lifestyle. You'd have a stronger point if he was trying to turn from homosexuality and they still shunned him. Then I'd be with you.
Their whole region is based on authoritarianism. It's all about harming those who dare to deny their imagined "authority". That's the whole purpose of the shunning: to punish the homo for not kow-towing to the imagined authority of their 2000 year old Jewish religious text. They call themselves Christians, but they worship ancient Judaism. The religion that murdered Jesus precisely because he illuminated the difference between divine love within the human spirit, and the emptiness of religious dogma.And do you not think there's even a little bit of irony in you accusing those people of being arrogant and self-righteous? You just declare them wrong and accuse them of seeking to harm this guy without any thought that maybe you are wrong. That maybe they aren't seeking to harm this guy. That maybe they are right about what Jesus would want. That doesn't seem like you are doing the exact same thing that you are accusing them of doing?
I don't have to know. I am only their accuser. Not their judge.Even if all sin is about is motive, you still don't know that they are acting out of bad motives.
Being a homosexual is not a sin. So he does not need to be forgiven for that.Except this guy doesn't even think he needs forgiveness.
Who knows, he might sprout wings and fly away like an angel, too.Who knows, he might be just as offended and upset if they 'forgave' him for something he didn't feel he needs forgiveness for.
Most of the sins we commit are unconscious. So it's not likely that we will know them all, specifically. Yet we do know that we live most of our lives being selfish, self-centered, and in fear of not getting what we want. So we do know that we often act on these motives even when we are unaware of them.Forgiveness implies that the person feels they did something wrong.
And yet, Jesus still said 'go and sin no more'.
Did he really? We don't know.
Jesus said nothing about homosexuality one way or another.
You seem to think homosexuality comes from the genitalia.The problem is that you insist on thinking that homosexuality is a sin, when it is not, as I have already explained several times. The sin does not take place in the genitalia. It takes place in the heart and mind, when we seek to exploit and abuse others for our own gain, pleasure, or satisfaction. Anyone can use (abuse) sexuality as an expression of sin, but the sexuality does NOT DEFINE THE SIN. The MOTIVATION defines the sin. You can't seem to grasp this because you are so stuck in your idolatry of ancient Jewish religious texts that express the pre-Christian idea that sin is the breaking of some ancient Jewish religious law.
Their whole region is based on authoritarianism. It's all about harming those who dare to deny their imagined "authority".
Jesus was a Jew. We are not. So the fact that Jesus honored his Jewish religious heritage has nothing to do with us. I'm sure Jesus followed lots of ancient Jewish religious proscriptions, like not eating pork, and not associating with women while on their periods. And a hundred other religious laws like that.No, Jesus did not specifically mention the act of homosexuality however, He was in accord with the Old Testament, which condemns homosexuality and Jesus reaffirmed that marriage is between a man and a woman as God preordained.
That's a very weak and reaching argument, too. Because he DIDN'T condemn homosexuality. And you have to invent some silly inverse sophistry to try and claim that he did.Did Jesus condemn homosexuality? Sure, He did, by reaffirming heterosexuality as God’s norm and the God-ordained definition of marriage.
But homosexuality does not do that simply by being homosexuality. Therefor, homosexuality is not a sin simply because it's homosexual.Homosexuality comes from the heart and the mind that seeks to use and abuse sexuality for a person's own gain, pleasure, and satisfaction.
That is why it is a sin.
I am not a Jew, and I am not living in the ancient world. So I don't really care about how the ancient Jews arrived at their laws. And I am not the least bit interested in "preserving their society". Their society is long gone. Even Jews today don't follow most of those ancient proscriptions, anymore.No, the laws were not given to promote authoritarianism.
The laws were given to preserve society.
The penalties in the law were put there to keep people from harming the society.
I am not a Jew, and I am not living in the ancient world. So I don't really care about how the ancient Jews arrived at their laws. And I am not the least bit interested in "preserving their society". Their society is long gone. Even Jews today don't follow most of those ancient proscriptions, anymore.