Arianism.

[Wick Stick]

Hi WS,

My commentary holds, its propositions and inquiries. I've been coming from a purely monotheistic Unitarian view, fundamental to traditional-orthodox Judaism and the very earliest followers of Jesus, including Jesus himself. Of course there is One Infinite Spirit, that is Deity, while all else are but personifications, forms and expressions of the One Spirit. The problem is with those assuming or super-imposing rather a traditional church-created 'orthodox' Trinitarian DOGMA as posing that as 'truth', when it is but a relational construct at best, to help people see the 'relations' between various facets, forms or personalities within the higher powers that BE. Pop these personalities into a 'Godhead' and we're good to go, but enforce the terms and qualifications of 'salvation' or 'eternal damnation' upon the believing of these or 'else' then you've got a 'church' playing 'God' and happily making a 'God' and his 'terms' in their own 'image' (imagination). I'm all for creative imagination, since all is Consciousness anyways, but when you have a religious organization 'posing' as 'Elohim', that's another matter, then making a MAN into 'God Almighty' you have bigger problems, no matter what metaphysical gymnastics you concoct and formalize into 'creeds'.

An 'Arian' or 'Semi-arian' Christology is just as good as an orthodox Trinitarian one, of even a modalist VERSION, if one is recognizing TRUE DEITY in the various forms and personalities that are revealing and expressing God in His relations and relationships with man and with all other beings, its all-inclusive, but we must look at the greater cosmology and divine economy as well, and that's where relational concepts such as a 'trinity' come into place. Just because the political power play of church-state tensions in the 4th century came to a culmination in the Arian Controversy and the Trinitarians eventually won the power play of church-state POLIITICS does not make their dogmatic formulation as 'gospel truth', its just that that version of Christianity was endorsed and then officialized by the powers that be of that era, and that TREND took over and carried on as 'TRADITION' bearing THEIR 'stamp' of 'orthodoxy'.


-----------0

"God is spirit, and they who worship Him must do so in spirit and truth".

"God is One".

"One Deity Being"

Having a "Christology" at all would seem to indicate that the topic is so complex as to require much study and explaining. That's the the "logy" part of the word there.

By way of comparison, after doing the "much study" part, I have come to a view so simple that it hardly rates a paragraph:

God is a Mind, in search of a body. Jesus was a vessel perfectly suited to God's full range of purposes and attributes. Those today who become members of the body are also vessels, though in a limited way by comparison.

 

[Wick Stick]

The reality is that most people do not think realistically because they are far removed from the timing, culture, and context of the Gospel accounts. Most will say that if they had lived and walked with Jesus in the flesh they would not have rejected him; but I say that is fantasy land, especially if they had thought he might have claimed to be God Almighty. The reality is that if they thought he had claimed such a thing in those days they would have done the same as the Pharisees, Scribes, and Jews did, that is, they would have sought to stone him for blasphemy. All of the theology, dogma, and religious trappings that are built up around the Gospel today did not exist in those days. What they had to go by in that culture and time was Torah, Prophets, and Writings. Moreover none of the disciples and apostles themselves thought that the Master was God Almighty; they never thought so and they never wrote any such thing, (which one would think that they would have written if it was so important for everyone to know). If the modern version of Jesus was to come again today in the flesh, appearing as a man; the same people who claim he is God Almighty would excommunicate him, call him a heretic, denounce him as having the doctrines of demons, accuse him of being possessed with devils, and tell him that his father is the Devil and that he is going to spend all eternity in fiery conscious hellfire torment unless he repents and believes what they believe. People do not wake up because they do not want to; it takes work to have understanding, one must be willing to seek the kingdom of Elohim first: but they have lives to live, houses to build, cars to buy, sheep to fleece, and more important stuff to attend to, all things are reconciled by pastor and priest on super-tanker refill spiritual Sundays.

In light of your comments here, I should like to ask your opinion of Montanus.

 

[freelight]

The Christ is God's Love and Light revealed in Man.......

The Christ is God's Love and Light revealed in Man.......

Having a "Christology" at all would seem to indicate that the topic is so complex as to require much study and explaining. That's the the "logy" part of the word there.

By way of comparison, after doing the "much study" part, I have come to a view so simple that it hardly rates a paragraph:

God is a Mind, in search of a body. Jesus was a vessel perfectly suited to God's full range of purposes and attributes. Those today who become members of the body are also vessels, though in a limited way by comparison.

I wholly agree with your analysis, which could be explained in more ways than one, but the essential view is that 'God' is a Universal Mind, an Infinite Spirit who generated, sent and anointed a certain human personality (Jesus), using that vessel to reveal himself, his will and way to humanity. This conceptual purview is all that is essential, for it is the 'logos' of 'God' acting within creation that is what life is about, as the creative divine potential of life is unfolding itself in every living soul and life-form. Life is Creation/Evolution of consciousness, energy, spirit and form.

I still hold my ground in observing that one can hold any form of Christology they choose for any given number of reasons, and as long as one recognizes 'God' in 'Christ' and his divine love and wisdom working thru the personality of Jesus, accepting Jesus and his teachings, taking them to heart, intending and being loyal to DO God's will with a pure heart, and a desire to serve life...this is all that is 'essential', no matter what particular Christological model you hold, as long as the spirit and heart is right and in harmony with 'God', in the ethic of love and serving....one cannot do wrong.

This continued berating and downtrodding of Unitarians by some on this board just goes to show that the same church politics-play continues to this day, against arians or any believers in Jesus that do not subscribe to their creedal definitions and dogmatic formulas. The zeal of the lord Jesus was in his proclamation of divine Sonship, by the Father's decree, and proclaiming the Fatherhood of God and brotherhood of Man, in that man by recognizing God as his Father, in the spiritual rebirth of love, by the Spirit, would also then awaken to themselves as sons of God, and then Jesus and his brethren would all be one in the Spirit, in the realization of the Fatherhood of the One True God, one body of Christ Universal.

Since some since centuries ago deemed it so important whether Jesus was YHWH or not, and had to have that formula to fit the Trinity-model, it became the politics of the day to combat anything that did not fit their orthodoxy-claims, 'orthodoxy' that they themselves defined and qualified "according to their terms". And that's the kicker. Otherwise, God has produced some wonderful followers of Jesus, and lovers of God of many different schools, pursuasions and traditions....that need not the endorsement of man, since God knows all hearts and every tree is known by its fruit. No matter what 'Christological model' one believes, only the pure in heart shall see God, and the peacemakers are known as the children of God. Those born of the Spirit share in all the qualities, attributes and fruit of the Spirit. Spirit Alone is LIFE. 'Dogmas' and 'creeds' have made more of a mess of things, if you look the history of 'Churchianity'. But the spirit of love, grace and wisdom...unites all souls in 'God', in the Universal Christ. This is the essential I have always held to and proclaimed, and shall continue to do so, until something better comes along.

 

[daqq]

In light of your comments here, I should like to ask your opinion of Montanus.

After reading 98% of the page I would simply say that if you want Spirit Holy it is the Testimony of the Master found in the Gospel accounts:

John 7:38-39
38 he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

And the W/H says, "For not yet was the Spirit", (instead of "Holy Spirit"), but the main point is that the Greek word for given is not found in any codex, manuscript, or fragment, and given within this passage is rather generally put in italics because it has been inserted. However, as shown in the Young's version above, when you do not insert given into the text it completely alters, (corrects), the meaning of the statement: for not yet was the Spirit because the Master was not yet glorified, and he was exalted-lifted-up-glorified at Golgotha, as Moses lifted up the Seraph in the desert: and when the Spirit of the Testimony of the Master Teacher was complete, he confirmed this thinking by the statement, "It is finished", and then he commended and delivered up that Spirit into the hands of the Father, (and no doubt it was accepted on High because it was already sealed by the Father as holy spiritual food). But once one becomes a hardcore textual literalist, (as in the example from the YLT above), the same will no doubt come to the realization that the physical minded interpretations of the scripture, which the mainstream believes and teaches, simply cannot possibly be held true throughout. For instance: how are you going to have rivers of living water flowing out of your cavity? The Son of Man has given it freely; it is in the Gospel accounts, the Spirit-Testimony of the Messiah, but we must drink it first before the cistern-cavity is filled and begins to overflow and quaff the garden, like the four rivers of the four heads in the beginning. So I suppose I would not really be the Montanus type because I count myself as being under the authority of what is written, and that is also Holy Spirit.

 

[marhig]

After reading 98% of the page I would simply say that if you want Spirit Holy it is the Testimony of the Master found in the Gospel accounts:

John 7:38-39
38 he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

And the W/H says, "For not yet was the Spirit", (instead of "Holy Spirit"), but the main point is that the Greek word for given is not found in any codex, manuscript, or fragment, and given within this passage is rather generally put in italics because it has been inserted. However, as shown in the Young's version above, when you do not insert given into the text it completely alters, (corrects), the meaning of the statement: for not yet was the Spirit because the Master was not yet glorified, and he was exalted-lifted-up-glorified at Golgotha, as Moses lifted up the Seraph in the desert: and when the Spirit of the Testimony of the Master Teacher was complete, he confirmed this thinking by the statement, "It is finished", and then he commended and delivered up that Spirit into the hands of the Father, (and no doubt it was accepted on High because it was already sealed by the Father as holy spiritual food). But once one becomes a hardcore textual literalist, (as in the example from the YLT above), the same will no doubt come to the realization that the physical minded interpretations of the scripture, which the mainstream believes and teaches, simply cannot possibly be held true throughout. For instance: how are you going to have rivers of living water flowing out of your cavity? The Son of Man has given it freely; it is in the Gospel accounts, the Spirit-Testimony of the Messiah, but we must drink it first before the cistern-cavity is filled and begins to overflow and quaff the garden, like the four rivers of the four heads in the beginning. So I suppose I would not really be the Montanus type because I count myself as being under the authority of what is written, and that is also Holy Spirit.

Hi Daqq,

I know I'm only a housewife and I'm not a well educated but, i see Christ lifted up differently. The lift up and glorified isn't on the cross, it's when Christ is lifted up and glorified in our hearts, we are the earth that he's lifted up from. Then once this happens and he lives through us and those born of God speak the word and gospel, then those bitten by serpents (devil's) are healed. We are still a serpent, because we are in this flesh that Satan (who is the serpent in the garden,) is the God of.

But once we believe the gospel and lift up Christ and are born of God, then we are lifted from this world and we glorify God and Christ and Gods love and the life of Christ is seen in and through us. And those who hear the word and believe on them and in the gospel are healed.

I don't normally share the deeper things of God here as they get ripped to bits by some, but I just don't see Jesus being scourged crucified and murdering him as glorifying him, as Satan was behind it all. And it was a wicked act. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, I'm not putting you down, I believe very much like you as I know that many things you say are of God. But I can't see murdering Jesus as glorifying him. The whole crucifixion is a horrific thing to do to the holy son of the living God, and we glorify him by laying down our lives, dying the death and letting others see the life of Gods holy son through us, by the power of the Spirit.

Your friend in God, Mary.

 

[marhig]

Accidentally Duplicated post

 

[daqq]

Hi Daqq,

I know I'm only a housewife and I'm not a well educated but, i see Christ lifted up differently. The lift up and glorified isn't on the cross, it's when Christ is lifted up and glorified in our hearts, we are the earth that he's lifted up from. Then once this happens and he lives through us and those born of God speak the word and gospel, then those bitten by serpents (devil's) are healed. We are still a serpent, because we are in this flesh that Satan (who is the serpent in the garden,) is the God of.

But once we believe the gospel and lift up Christ and are born of God, then we are lifted from this world and we glorify God and Christ and Gods love and the life of Christ is seen in and through us. And those who hear the word and believe on them and in the gospel are healed.

I don't normally share the deeper things of God here as they get ripped to bits by some, but I just don't see Jesus being scourged crucified and murdering him as glorifying him, as Satan was behind it all. And it was a wicked act. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, I'm not putting you down, I believe very much like you as I know that many things you say are of God. But I can't see murdering Jesus as glorifying him. The whole crucifixion is a horrific thing to do to the holy son of the living God, and we glorify him by laying down our lives, dying the death and letting others see the life of Gods holy son through us, by the power of the Spirit.

Your friend in God, Mary.

It's all good but I think you misunderstand my point of view:
In the beginning the Logos was with the Elohim and the Logos was Elohim.
But no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (Jn 1:18a ASV, 1Jn 4:12a ASV).
Elohim is not a man; neither is His Word, and His Word is food, (Lamb and Dove).

 

[marhig]

It's all good but I think you misunderstand my point of view:
In the beginning the Logos was with the Elohim and the Logos was Elohim.
But no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (Jn 1:18a ASV, 1Jn 4:12a ASV).
Elohim is not a man; neither is His Word, and His Word is food, (Lamb and Dove).

Absolutely, Jesus is the Christ meaning the anointed of God, so the word is God, and God was in Christ Jesus, reconciling the world unto himself by the power of the Spirit. Jesus only spoke what the father gave him to speak and without him he said he could do nothing, and he said to the father in prayer, thou hast given me power over all flesh. And that power comes through the strength and word of the Spirit.

 

[meshak]

Absolutely, Jesus is the Christ meaning the anointed of God, so the word is God, and God was in Christ Jesus, reconciling the world unto himself by the power of the Spirit. Jesus only spoke what the father gave him to speak and without him he said he could do nothing, and he said to the father in prayer, thou hast given me power over all flesh. And that power comes through the strength and word of the Spirit.

well said, amen.

too many Christians playing scholar and I don't believe Jesus approve of His followers argue over doctrines. It may satisfy their ego but contribute nothing to strive to be like Jesus.

You don't need complicated doctrine to be like Jesus. He gave us simple instructions.

Lets keep Jesus' simple teachings simple.

 

[oatmeal]

Having a "Christology" at all would seem to indicate that the topic is so complex as to require much study and explaining. That's the the "logy" part of the word there.

By way of comparison, after doing the "much study" part, I have come to a view so simple that it hardly rates a paragraph:

God is a Mind, in search of a body. Jesus was a vessel perfectly suited to God's full range of purposes and attributes. Those today who become members of the body are also vessels, though in a limited way by comparison.

So for you, Jesus Christ was a vessel, not a person.

He was then a human costume that God clothed himself with?

If that is true, then God did not die for our sins as many allege, but only his human costume was what? discarded?

 

[marhig]

well said, amen.
too many Christians playing scholar and I don't believe Jesus approve of His followers argue over doctrines. It may satisfy their ego but contribute nothing to strive to be like Jesus.

You don't need complicated doctrine to be like Jesus. He gave us simple instructions.

Lets keep Jesus' simple teachings simple.

Meshak I couldn't comment before as I was on my way out to our house meeting, yes you're absolutely right. People try to complicate the way, but Jesus made it simple, he is the way, and we are to strive to be more like him and deny ourselves obey the Spirit of God within, let him put our fleshly nature to death and as we walk in the Spirit we will truly follow Jesus and worship God in Spirit and in truth.

We were reading this, this morning in our meeting

Galatians 4

Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Many say that they know God, but they should rather be known of God, and you know those who are known of God because they live by his will and become servants and lift Christ up rather than lift themselves up like many do. We won't be servants to the bondage of the flesh but free of this world.

God will only know those who are willing to lay down their lives for others and love him with all their hearts, and if we love him with all our hearts then we will want to obey him, and do his will, not because we are commanded to but because we want to as we walk in the the Spirit and love him and Christ from our hearts and worship him in Spirit and in truth.

 

[Wick Stick]

So for you, Jesus Christ was a vessel, not a person.

He was then a human costume that God clothed himself with?

If that is true, then God did not die for our sins as many allege, but only his human costume was what? discarded?

No, that isn't what I said or meant. I think we must define some words differently.

 

[oatmeal]

No, that isn't what I said or meant. I think we must define some words differently.

Thanks for the reply. Most certainly, we must work with definitions of words if we are to communicate clearly

 

[daqq]

John 7:38-39
38 he who is believing in me, according as the Writing said, Rivers out of his belly shall flow of living water;'
39 and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

And the W/H says, "For not yet was the Spirit", (instead of "Holy Spirit"), but the main point is that the Greek word for given is not found in any codex, manuscript, or fragment, and given within this passage is rather generally put in italics because it has been inserted. However, as shown in the Young's version above, when you do not insert given into the text it completely alters, (corrects), the meaning of the statement: for not yet was the Spirit because the Master was not yet glorified, and he was exalted-lifted-up-glorified at Golgotha, as Moses lifted up the Seraph in the desert: and when the Spirit of the Testimony of the Master Teacher was complete, he confirmed this thinking by the statement, "It is finished", and then he commended and delivered up that Spirit into the hands of the Father, (and no doubt it was accepted on High because it was already sealed by the Father as holy spiritual food). But once one becomes a hardcore textual literalist, (as in the example from the YLT above), the same will no doubt come to the realization that the physical minded interpretations of the scripture, which the mainstream believes and teaches, simply cannot possibly be held true throughout. For instance: how are you going to have rivers of living water flowing out of your cavity? The Son of Man has given it freely; it is in the Gospel accounts, the Spirit-Testimony of the Messiah, but we must drink it first before the cistern-cavity is filled and begins to overflow and quaff the garden, like the four rivers of the four heads in the beginning. So I suppose I would not really be the Montanus type because I count myself as being under the authority of what is written, and that is also Holy Spirit.

Hi Daqq,

I know I'm only a housewife and I'm not a well educated but, i see Christ lifted up differently. The lift up and glorified isn't on the cross, it's when Christ is lifted up and glorified in our hearts, we are the earth that he's lifted up from. Then once this happens and he lives through us and those born of God speak the word and gospel, then those bitten by serpents (devil's) are healed. We are still a serpent, because we are in this flesh that Satan (who is the serpent in the garden,) is the God of.

But once we believe the gospel and lift up Christ and are born of God, then we are lifted from this world and we glorify God and Christ and Gods love and the life of Christ is seen in and through us. And those who hear the word and believe on them and in the gospel are healed.

I don't normally share the deeper things of God here as they get ripped to bits by some, but I just don't see Jesus being scourged crucified and murdering him as glorifying him, as Satan was behind it all. And it was a wicked act. I hope you don't mind me sharing this with you, I'm not putting you down, I believe very much like you as I know that many things you say are of God. But I can't see murdering Jesus as glorifying him. The whole crucifixion is a horrific thing to do to the holy son of the living God, and we glorify him by laying down our lives, dying the death and letting others see the life of Gods holy son through us, by the power of the Spirit.

Your friend in God, Mary.

Absolutely, Jesus is the Christ meaning the anointed of God, so the word is God, and God was in Christ Jesus, reconciling the world unto himself by the power of the Spirit. Jesus only spoke what the father gave him to speak and without him he said he could do nothing, and he said to the father in prayer, thou hast given me power over all flesh. And that power comes through the strength and word of the Spirit.

If you are doing the will of Elohim then you also are in the process of being "lifted up", that is, "crucified with Messiah", as even Paul says. For example from the same passage which I quoted when you responded above: when was it that you first heard the great invocation? What day was it? We must be willing to change our own mindset and come to Messiah under his terms; the terms of his Testimony which is recorded for us in the Gospel accounts. In other words put yourself literally into the text, (a frame of mind), and suddenly you are become part of a new family of people: all Israel.

No matter what day or time of year it was when you first heard the great invocation it was in this day which follows below in the final passage quote:

John 7:2 ASV
2 Now the feast of the Jews, the feast of tabernacles, was at hand.

John 7:14 ASV
14 But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught. [and behold, he cut the week of Sukkot-Tabernacles in half]

John 7:17 ASV
17 If any man willeth to do his will, he shall know of the teaching, whether it is of God, or whether I speak from myself.

John 7:37-38 ASV
37 Now on the last day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.
38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, from within him shall flow rivers of living water.

This last great day of Sukkot-Tabernacles is called Shemini Atzeret, which means the eighth day of assembly, a holy convocation, and at this point the feast comes to a close, (the next day is called Simchat Torah, and the Torah reading cycle in the synagogue turns a revolution and begins anew at Genesis, but it is also a day immediately following the feast and is like an "afterglow day", which is more private as if an afterglow day with a teacher and his disciples after the huge crowds have gone home from the feast, and so on).

The point is that if you put yourself mentally into the text then, no matter when you actually heard the great invocation, you heard it in this day, Shemini Atzeret, the last great day of the feast of Tabernacles; for that is the only day in which the great invocation was given, and it was given by the Master Teacher, and we are to come to him if we are to understand the will of the Father. You are now therefore on a time line, appointed times having been laid out for you in the scripture; hidden but hidden in plain sight, (O the riches!). You are at that point set in the process of "running a race" sort of speak, as Paul also says: however you have missed the feast of Tabernacles at this point in your new walk, howbeit the point aimed at is the day when time is no more, (your seventh trumpet, for the Spirit of the Apocalypse and its prophetic sayings is the Spirit-Testimony of the Master, Rev 19:10 YLT). And when time is no more; you will no more know Messiah according to the flesh as you seem to understand him now, (2Cor 5:16, 17 quoting from Rev 21:4, 5), my friend.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Heb 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Heb 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
Heb 9:18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
Heb 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
Heb 9:20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.
Heb 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

 

[Wick Stick]

Thanks for the reply. Most certainly, we must work with definitions of words if we are to communicate clearly

I think "vessel" is where we went different directions.

To my thinking, every person is a vessel. I mean... some are empty, some are a quart low, some are full, and some overflowing. And perhaps they are not full of the same thing, but... they are all vessels nonetheless.

 

[marhig]

Hi Daqq,

Sorry been busy, I'll have to have a good read of that when I get a chance.

I believe it's so simple, Jesus is the Christ, the son is the living God. He came to bare witness to the truth, and those who are of the truth hear his voice and we follow him the true shepherd.

Once we believe we, we obey his teachings and live by the will of God through faith. And those who love God from their hearts will put him before themselves and put their life last and him first and turn from sin and the works of this world and the building up in it and God with strengthen us to overcome if we have true faith. And by the grace of God we will love others with the love that God has changed our hearts with.

To love is the way to please God, and Jesus came and preached the word and lived it out through the gospel he showed us how to live and love God and others, bringing us a new and living way to follow. He is the way the truth and the life, and those who truly following him have God's love and his life made manifest by the Spirit within and it brings great joy and peace to the heart.

Speak soon

 

[oatmeal]

I think "vessel" is where we went different directions.

To my thinking, every person is a vessel. I mean... some are empty, some are a quart low, some are full, and some overflowing. And perhaps they are not full of the same thing, but... they are all vessels nonetheless.

God figuratively uses the word vessel to indicate that we are containers that have contents.

II Timothy 2

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

However, it is clear that it is the individual son of God that must purge themselves of ungodly contents thus becoming a vessel unto honor, fit for the master's use and prepared unto every good work.

The vessel determines how useful they are willing to be to God and to His son.

God does not, for he does not force himself into our lives, He in response to our believing and seeking Him influences our lives in this context.

Thus applying these concepts to Jesus Christ the son of God we learn that Jesus Christ had God in his life because Jesus Christ was willing to have God in his life.. He chose to do God's will over his own, he chose to humbly obey, to honor his Father and mother, Philippians 2

God did not force himself into His son's life, his mind and his heart, Jesus Christ chose to do the Father's will thus the Father was always with him, Jesus Christ chose to be on the same page, yes, even the same word as the Father, (I speak those things which the Father gives me to speak) thus Jesus Christ could declare, because he walked, lived, thought, acted in harmony with the Father, "I and my Father are one" ie, one in purpose. Same Greek word for one as found in Corinthians where God has Paul state, he who plants and he who waters are one.

 

[patrick jane]

It's all good but I think you misunderstand my point of view:
In the beginning the Logos was with the Elohim and the Logos was Elohim.
But no one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time, (Jn 1:18a ASV, 1Jn 4:12a ASV).
Elohim is not a man; neither is His Word, and His Word is food, (Lamb and Dove).

John 1:14 KJV -

 

[daqq]

John 1:14 KJV -

Yep, the moment Moses began to write.

PS ~ Acts 7:38 - "λογια ζωντα"
Living Oracles - Living Sayings - Living Words