Are You Ready For Jesus To Come?

[Faither]

Well to be honest, I just don't understand why you dwell on "faither" thingy so much. This is all you talk about.

Maybe i have a really , really good reason for that.

I've studied Gods Word for 31 years , you don't think i'd rather be talking about what happens once one truly starts the Salvation process ? I just can't do that until the ones i'm meeting have met the requirements.

I can't even communicate to anyone that there even is a requirement to Start the relationship with Christ.

When God gives us certain understandings , theres a responsibility that goes along with it . I want to be accepted and liked , talk about Gods deeper truths , but i won't turn a blind eye to Gods called out ones.

Maybe this will help . What if this continuous talk about "faithing" resulted in 100 million dollars , but i'm the only one that knows that . Wouldn't you want me to keep persuading you. Ya right? Well this faithing can result touching our creator . Just think about that Meshak , having a connection with Christ and at the same time living in this world . This is worth a billion times more than 100 million dollars . Thats why i call it the "secret of the universe ," when it happens to you , you absolutely have no doubt that God is real and your having a relationship with Him just like His Word promises. Theres absolutely nothing more important in this world than that , and the door to this is "pisteuo" or what we should know as faithing.

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth,
Genesis 15:4-6 (KJV):

Again, Abraham OBEYED before then.

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;

You have not explained Genesis 15:6 where it states that God counted Abraham’s faith to him for righteousness.

I have been explaining it to you. Abraham obeyed before and do you really think that God would have said Abraham was justified by anything if Abraham did not obey when God told him to go?

My understanding of this is that because of Abraham’s faith here, that God was willing to consider Abraham to be righteous. I understand this to represent the forgiveness of his past sins, and also equivalent to being righteous. Christ is the only one that has been without sin and lived a righteous life. Thus God considers Abraham as being within Christ, just as we are encouraged to believe in Christ and to be baptised into him Galatians 3:26-29.

Abraham did not receive what was promised until Jesus came and died for our sins.

Hebrews 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,

 

[meshak]

Maybe i have a really , really good reason for that.

I've studied Gods Word for 31 years , you don't think i'd rather be talking about what happens once one truly starts the Salvation process ? I just can't do that until the ones i'm meeting have met the requirements.

I can't even communicate to anyone that there even is a requirement to Start the relationship with Christ.

When God gives us certain understandings , theres a responsibility that goes along with it . I want to be accepted and liked , talk about Gods deeper truths , but i won't turn a blind eye to Gods called out ones.

Maybe this will help . What if this continuous talk about "faithing" resulted in 100 million dollars , but i'm the only one that knows that . Wouldn't you want me to keep persuading you. Ya right? Well this faithing can result touching our creator . Just think about that Meshak , having a connection with Christ and at the same time living in this world . This is worth a billion times more than 100 million dollars . Thats why i call it the "secret of the universe ," when it happens to you , you absolutely have no doubt that God is real and your having a relationship with Him just like His Word promises. Theres absolutely nothing more important in this world than that , and the door to this is "pisteuo" or what we should know as faithing.

I am a simple Christian and I know Jesus loves me. What require is to have faith in God and strive to be like Jesus.

I know most of us are not perfect yet Jesus is seeking our sincere faith; God will forgive our imperfect faith and makes it perfect in Jesus' name.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

Again, Abraham OBEYED before then.
Genesis 12:1: Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
I have been explaining it to you. Abraham obeyed before and do you really think that God would have said Abraham was justified by anything if Abraham did not obey when God told him to go?

I do not accept that Abraham was “saved” before Genesis 15:6. The Bible aka the word of God commands us to do many things, but we are not saved until we believe the Gospel concerning the Kingdom and Name and then this leads to baptism.

Abraham did not receive what was promised until Jesus came and died for our sins.
Hebrews 11:39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,

He received forgiveness on the basis and anticipation of what Jesus would accomplish. Genesis 22 spells out the certainty of Abraham receiving the blessing. It does not say that possibly I will bless Abraham if Christ dies. Genesis 22 is the very enactment of Christ’s death and resurrection, and Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus’ day and was glad. Genesis 22 is preeminently about Abraham's faith. Salvation and justification is by faith. Abraham is still waiting for Jesus to return before he actually receives his inheritance of the land that was promised to him and Christ in Genesis 13:14-15.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[Faither]

I am a simple Christian and I know Jesus loves me. What require is to have faith in God and strive to be like Jesus.

I know most of us are not perfect yet Jesus is seeking our sincere faith; God will forgive our imperfect faith and makes it perfect in Jesus' name.

Only if we are in Him , and He is in us. That only happens by "pisteuo". If we are not practicing pisteuo daily , His Spirit , Christ , and His word are not ours . And He may love us , but we without pisteuo , we are His enemy . He is capable of both at the same time in His world.

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, I do not accept that Abraham was “saved” before Genesis 15:6.

Abraham obeyed before Genesis 15 and, Abraham had his faith tested way after that. Now what?
He had his faith tested by a command from God and what happened?

The Bible aka the word of God commands us to do many things, but we are not saved until we believe the Gospel concerning the Kingdom and Name and then this leads to baptism.

Do you mean water baptism?

People can be saved before water baptism.

Show me where Abraham was water baptized.

Now are you beginning to see that Abraham was saved by believing and obeying?

He received forgiveness on the basis and anticipation of what Jesus would accomplish.

What? No such thing. Abraham was saved by believing and obeying God.

Genesis 22 spells out the certainty of Abraham receiving the blessing. It does not say that possibly I will bless Abraham if Christ dies.

What in the world are you talking about?

Genesis 22 is the very enactment of Christ’s death and resurrection, and Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus’ day and was glad. Genesis 22 is preeminently about Abraham's faith. Salvation and justification is by faith. Abraham is still waiting for Jesus to return before he actually receives his inheritance of the land that was promised to him and Christ in Genesis 13:14-15.

Abraham is in heaven now with Jesus.

 

[Right Divider]

What? No such thing. Abraham was saved by believing and obeying God.

Scripture says that Abraham believed God and IT was counted for righteousness.

Where does it say that he was saved by believing and obeying?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

Abraham obeyed before Genesis 15 and, Abraham had his faith tested way after that. Now what?
He had his faith tested by a command from God and what happened?

Yes, but Abraham was saved, that is, declared righteous, that is, justified by faith in Genesis 15:6.

Do you mean water baptism?
People can be saved before water baptism. Show me where Abraham was water baptized.

After the death and resurrection of Christ the Apostles taught water baptism. Seeing you are so fixed on the aspect of obedience, do you diminish the need to be baptised?

Now are you beginning to see that Abraham was saved by believing and obeying?
What? No such thing. Abraham was saved by believing and obeying God.

Abraham was initially saved by believing what God said in Genesis 15:4-6.

What in the world are you talking about?

Perhaps you have not understood Genesis 22 and Hebrews6:13-15,16-18.

Abraham is in heaven now with Jesus.

I believe in the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Scripture says that Abraham believed God and IT was counted for righteousness.

Where does it say that he was saved by believing and obeying?

Abraham obeyed way before the scripture about Abraham having faith.
Do you really think that Abraham's faith would have been worth anything if he did not obey?

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, Yes, but Abraham was saved, that is, declared righteous, that is, justified by faith in Genesis 15:6.

Abraham obeyed before that scripture. Think about it more. If Abraham did not obey would his faith have meant anything?

After the death and resurrection of Christ the Apostles taught water baptism. Seeing you are so fixed on the aspect of obedience, do you diminish the need to be baptised?

No way, water baptism is needed. However, Jesus can save one before or after the water baptism.

Abraham was initially saved by believing what God said in Genesis 15:4-6. Perhaps you have not understood Genesis 22 and Hebrews6:13-15,16-18.I believe in the resurrection of the dead when Christ returns.

We are all flesh and spirit. When our flesh dies our spirit goes on to live with Jesus, or it goes to prison/hell.

The resurrection is when we receive new physical bodies that do not die.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

Abraham obeyed before that scripture. Think about it more. If Abraham did not obey would his faith have meant anything?
No way, water baptism is needed. However, Jesus can save one before or after the water baptism.

I appreciate your latest response, but we are mainly going over the same ground. I consider that after believing the gospel, such a belief should motivate us to be identified with the death and resurrection of Jesus by means of water baptism, symbolising burial of the old man and old way of life and a raising again to the new man created in Jesus and a new way of life motivated by the love of Christ Galatians 2:20.

We are all flesh and spirit. When our flesh dies our spirit goes on to live with Jesus, or it goes to prison/hell.
The resurrection is when we receive new physical bodies that do not die.

If Abraham is in heaven, where is David?
Acts 2:29, 34-36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, I appreciate your latest response, but we are mainly going over the same ground. I consider that after believing the gospel, such a belief should motivate us to be identified with the death and resurrection of Jesus by means of water baptism, symbolising burial of the old man and old way of life and a raising again to the new man created in Jesus and a new way of life motivated by the love of Christ Galatians 2:20.

I am glad we have agreement.

If Abraham is in heaven, where is David?
Acts 2:29, 34-36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

That scripture is about David's body dead and buried.

Jesus is the only one who went to heaven with the body that had died.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

I am glad we have agreement.

My impression is that we have disagreed on many aspects, especially justification by faith.

That scripture is about David's body dead and buried.
Jesus is the only one who went to heaven with the body that had died.

Acts 2:29, 34-36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
But Peter says that David is both dead and buried. He does not say that David is actually in heaven, even though his decayed body and sepulchre were in Jerusalem. Rather he says David (that is the conscious David, or David himself) is not ascended into the heavens. Please note you stated that Abraham was in heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, My impression is that we have disagreed on many aspects,

I was speaking about agreement on baptism.

especially justification by faith.

I have tried to show you with scriptures that we are justified by faith that is alive and not dead.

Acts 2:29, 34-36 (KJV): 29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. 34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
But Peter says that David is both dead and buried. He does not say that David is actually in heaven, even though his decayed body and sepulchre were in Jerusalem. Rather he says David (that is the conscious David, or David himself) is not ascended into the heavens. Please note you stated that Abraham was in heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

David's body is dead and buried.

There is too much truth about our spirits living on after the death of our bodies.

Paul speaks of a man being out of his body; so then, if it were not possible, Paul would not say it.

Peter tells of Jesus going to hell and preaching to the spirits of people who died a long time ago.

Jesus went to the lowest part to the highest of heaven,he filled the whole universe.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

I have tried to show you with scriptures that we are justified by faith that is alive and not dead.

Abraham certainly had a living, active faith. Your position on this subject is beneficial in rejecting the wrong concepts of faith only or faith alone and possibly OSAS. But please consider the full implications of Genesis 15:6, as this will strengthen your position against faith alone once you link this with the Biblical application of this verse with the three major stages of Abraham’s faith, rather than leaving your claims open to rejection purely on Genesis 15:6.

David's body is dead and buried.

Yes it is. I have appreciated our discussion, but perhaps much of this has been off topic. The following is on topic, but includes a few aspects of our discussion. This gives us the example of Paul, who had a very active faith, and this also reveals his hope when he was about to depart this present life. He looked forward to the return of Jesus to establish his kingdom, and to reward Paul with a crown of righteousness, justification by faith.
2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
May we be amongst those who love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, Abraham certainly had a living, active faith. Your position on this subject is beneficial in rejecting the wrong concepts of faith only or faith alone and possibly OSAS. But please consider the full implications of Genesis 15:6, as this will strengthen your position against faith alone once you link this with the Biblical application of this verse with the three major stages of Abraham’s faith, rather than leaving your claims open to rejection purely on Genesis 15:6. Yes it is. I have appreciated our discussion, but perhaps much of this has been off topic. The following is on topic, but includes a few aspects of our discussion. This gives us the example of Paul, who had a very active faith, and this also reveals his hope when he was about to depart this present life. He looked forward to the return of Jesus to establish his kingdom, and to reward Paul with a crown of righteousness, justification by faith.

There is just no way out of it or around it---faith alone is dead and does not justify anyone.

Abraham obeyed God from the beginning, and, Abraham's faith was even tested by what he would do---if he would sacrifice his son.

Again more proof of faith with right action is the only kind of faith that saves.

2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 (KJV): 1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;. 6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. 7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.
May we be amongst those who love his appearing.

Kind regards
Trevor

Those scriptures do not mean our spirits do not live on after the death of our physical bodies.

Notice you did not address the scriptures I spoke of which tells us we do live on spiritually?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

Those scriptures do not mean our spirits do not live on after the death of our physical bodies.
Notice you did not address the scriptures I spoke of which tells us we do live on spiritually?

Yes, I avoided responding as we could discuss many aspects of this subject but the allusions and quotations that you suggested are obscure and ambiguous. Personally I am very confused at the numerous views on these and the subject in general. You use the term “our spirits” but others speak of immortal souls. Is it an immortal soul that goes to heaven when we die, or is it our spirit? When did the spirits of those go to heaven, and where were they before Christ’s death and resurrection? Similarly, what about the immortal souls? Also there is much variation on what happened to Jesus after his death and before his resurrection.

I suggest that the NT emphasis is on the return of Christ and the resurrection from the dead. I believe 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 is important as it reveals Paul’s last words to Timothy and Paul’s mind and hope when he faced death. David also looked forward to the Kingdom and the resurrection, as did Peter and many others.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, Yes, I avoided responding as we could discuss many aspects of this subject but the allusions and quotations that you suggested are obscure and ambiguous.

I think it is clear.

Personally I am very confused at the numerous views on these and the subject in general. You use the term “our spirits” but others speak of immortal souls.

A soul is a physical body made alive by the spirit.
An immortal soul would be a physical body that does not die, such as the one we will receive at the resurrection.

Is it an immortal soul that goes to heaven when we die, or is it our spirit?

The spirit.

When did the spirits of those go to heaven, and where were they before Christ’s death and resurrection?

Abraham's bosom or prison/hell.

Similarly, what about the immortal souls? Also there is much variation on what happened to Jesus after his death and before his resurrection.

The scriptures are clear about it.

I suggest that the NT emphasis is on the return of Christ and the resurrection from the dead. I believe 2 Timothy 4:1,6-8 is important as it reveals Paul’s last words to Timothy and Paul’s mind and hope when he faced death. David also looked forward to the Kingdom and the resurrection, as did Peter and many others.

Kind regards
Trevor

Read what Paul says here: 18 And the Lord will rescue me from every evil action and bring me safely into His heavenly kingdom.

That scripture is about Paul going to heaven when he dies.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

A soul is a physical body made alive by the spirit.
An immortal soul would be a physical body that does not die, such as the one we will receive at the resurrection.

This is the first time I have met with such a definition as this second phrase. I can agree with the first phrase, but not many endorse this. Many or most believe that man has an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and goes to heaven or hell. Would you like me to give 20-30 statements from those who claim this?

Read what Paul says here: 18 And the Lord will rescue me from every evil action and bring me safely into His heavenly kingdom.
That scripture is about Paul going to heaven when he dies.

It is heavenly because it comes from God, from heaven Daniel 2:44. It is not saying that Paul is going to a kingdom in heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, This is the first time I have met with such a definition as this second phrase. I can agree with the first phrase, but not many endorse this. Many or most believe that man has an immortal soul that leaves the body at death and goes to heaven or hell. Would you like me to give 20-30 statements from those who claim this?

If you would like to learn the truth about it, give it.

It is heavenly because it comes from God, from heaven Daniel 2:44. It is not saying that Paul is going to a kingdom in heaven.

Kind regards
Trevor

Paul knows a man who went there and contemplates that the man went there out of his body/in his spirit.