Are You Ready For Jesus To Come?

[Gary K]

Everything in the Sermon on the Mount can be found in the Law and the Prophets (OT scripture).

I agree. Jesus taught nothing new. All He did was sweep away the accumulation of centuries of the traditions of men. He revealed truth already given.

 

[God's Truth]

I agree. Jesus taught nothing new. All He did was sweep away the accumulation of centuries of the traditions of men. He revealed truth already given.

The talmud did not yet exist. Deal with that.

 

[meshak]

My understanding of the term grace is the unmerited kindness and love of God in the forgiveness of our sins, and I also consider grace to include God’s continual care for us, in granting our needs in all things and His providential care for us each day. I am not sure of what you would add to this.

Kind regards
Trevor

Amen.

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again Right Divider I appreciate your thorough response and explanation. I have not previously given much thought to the Mid-Acts dispensationalism concept nor have I considered what many claim is represented by the gospel of grace.

I have not previously considered that the preaching by Paul was significantly different to the preaching by Jesus and the 12 Apostles. I read that Jesus preached the gospel of the Kingdom of God, and Peter preached the gospel of the Kingdom and Name to the Jews in Acts 2, 3 and 4. Philip the Evangelist (a preacher of the gospel) preached the gospel of the Kingdom and Name to the Samaritans in Acts 8:5,12 and Paul preached the same in Acts 28:23-24,30-31 to both Jews and Gentiles. One element of the mystery is that the gospel was to be freely open to the Gentiles, and the record concerning Peter and Cornelius is significant. Paul was especially chosen to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles. Another aspect of what was previously hidden, or not fully appreciated, was that Christ had to suffer, die and be resurrected. Although this was revealed in such prophecies as Psalm 22 and Isaiah 53 it was not anticipated by most, even the Apostles to whom Jesus had clearly stated what had to occur.
My understanding of the term grace is the unmerited kindness and love of God in the forgiveness of our sins, and I also consider grace to include God’s continual care for us, in granting our needs in all things and His providential care for us each day. I am not sure of what you would add to this.

Kind regards
Trevor

Just wondering if you could give me the scripture that says God's grace is the 'unmerited' kindness.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings God's Truth,

Just wondering if you could give me the scripture that says God's grace is the 'unmerited' kindness.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV):8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The grace of God is a gift, and therefore unmerited when measured against the initial response of the recipients. It is what is received by those who have believed the gospel. Part of this grace is the forgiveness of sins and this is also expressed as the believer is accounted as righteous.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings God's Truth, Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV):8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
The grace of God is a gift, and therefore unmerited when measured against the initial response of the recipients. It is what is received by those who have believed the gospel. Part of this grace is the forgiveness of sins and this is also expressed as the believer is accounted as righteous.

Kind regards
Trevor

Thank you, TrevorL.

I hope you don't get too offended by my saying the 'unmerited' part is not scripture; it is the teachings of false teachers.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone, James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24. Even demons believe and do something, they shudder, James 2:19.

The gift is the reward, the inheritance, which is eternal life. God gives the inheritance to His children. You must be chosen to be a child of God to receive the inheritance, the gift. Jesus tells us how to be saved and become children. We must believe and obey Jesus, the Way.

When Paul says not of by works, he is speaking about the ceremonial works of the law that the people used to do to be justified before God. No one has to do those works anymore to clean themselves, for faith in Jesus' blood cleans us now of the sins we repent of doing. That means no one has to get circumcised and sacrifice animals. It does not mean we no longer have to obey.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

I hope you don't get too offended by my saying the "unmerited" part is not scripture; it is the teachings of false teachers.

I appreciate your comment and perhaps the word "unmerited” was poorly chosen especially because of the way it is used by some. There is an intimate connection between faith and righteousness and this is fully revealed in the faith of Jesus, who was righteous, as he always did that which pleased God and never sinned.

Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone, James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, and 24.

I suggest that the example of Abraham is important, as in Genesis 15:6 he was saved by his faith. But this was as it were the start of a process, and James rightly reveals that Abraham continued in his faith, even offering up his son Isaac, and he states that this was a fulfilment of Genesis 15:6, showing that faith must continue to grow, leading to obedience.

The gift is the reward, the inheritance, which is eternal life. God gives the inheritance to His children. You must be chosen to be a child of God to receive the inheritance, the gift. Jesus tells us how to be saved and become children. We must believe and obey Jesus, the Way.

Yes chosen by God, but God also chooses those who respond to the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5,12.

When Paul says not of by works, he is speaking about the ceremonial works of the law that the people used to do to be justified before God. No one has to do those works anymore to clean themselves, for faith in Jesus' blood cleans us now of the sins we repent of doing. That means no one has to get circumcised and sacrifice animals. It does not mean we no longer have to obey.

I agree.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, I appreciate your comment and perhaps the word "unmerited” was poorly chosen especially because of the way it is used by some. There is an intimate connection between faith and righteousness and this is fully revealed in the faith of Jesus, who was righteous, as he always did that which pleased God and never sinned.I suggest that the example of Abraham is important, as in Genesis 15:6 he was saved by his faith.

No such thing as Abraham being saved by just faith. Abraham had to obey. Abraham had to even have his faith tested.

The only works that don't save anymore is the circumcision Abraham had to do.

Read this scripture, it is way before the scripture you don't understand about Abraham's faith:

Genesis 12:1
Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;

Did you read that?

That is before the scripture you gave about Abraham's faith. God told Abraham to go somewhere and Abraham OBEYED and went.


Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Abraham's faith wasn't alone it was with obedience.

Read this scripture, it shows that Abraham wouldn't have received the promises from God if he had not obeyed, no matter how much faith:

Genesis 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."

But this was as it were the start of a process, and James rightly reveals that Abraham continued in his faith, even offering up his son Isaac, and he states that this was a fulfilment of Genesis 15:6, showing that faith must continue to grow, leading to obedience.

As you can see from the scriptures that I gave, Abraham obeyed way before faith was mentions.

Yes chosen by God, but God also chooses those who respond to the Gospel of the Kingdom and Name Acts 8:5,12. I agree.

Kind regards
Trevor

God only saves those who obey.

Acts 10:35 but that in every nation those who fear Him and live good lives are acceptable to Him.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

Psalm 50:23 Whoever sacrifices a thank offering honors Me, and whoever orders his conduct, I will show him the salvation of God."

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them.

John 14:21 The person who has my commandments and obeys them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and will reveal myself to him."

John 15:10 If you obey my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commandments and remain in his love.

Acts 13:26 "Fellow children of Abraham and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent.

Proverbs 8:17 I love those who love me,

John 15:14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Matthew 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

John 13:17 Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Luke 11:28 He replied, "Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it."


You were taught wrong about no works.

The works that no longer saved are the ceremonial/purification works.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

No such thing as Abraham being saved by just faith. Abraham had to obey. Abraham had to even have his faith tested.
The only works that don't save anymore is the circumcision Abraham had to do.
Read this scripture, it is way before the scripture you don't understand about Abraham's faith:
Genesis 12:1: Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you;
Did you read that?
That is before the scripture you gave about Abraham's faith. God told Abraham to go somewhere and Abraham OBEYED and went.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
Abraham's faith wasn't alone it was with obedience.

There is no mention that Abraham was justified by faith before Genesis 15:6, but Paul in Romans 4 uses Genesis 15:6 in two contexts. The first refers directly to the Genesis 15:6 incident in Romans 4:1-5. This is speaking of Abraham being justified because of his faith, not his faith and his works. The second is in Romans 4:16-22 which speaks of when Abraham was strong in faith regarding the birth of Isaac. This is at it were the second major stage of Abraham’s faith. Yes, Abraham had obeyed the call in Genesis 12:1-3, but there is no mention that he was justified by faith at that stage. The third quotation of Genesis 15:6 is in James 2:20-24 and this was when Abraham obeyed and sacrificed Isaac. It even says that Genesis 15:6 is fulfilled in what Abraham did. Thus this is the third major stage of Abraham’s faith.

But notice what kind of obedience is mentioned. It is not simply good works or charity. It is works derived from faith, or works in conformity with faith. Without faith as a basis of what Abraham did, if he did not believe in the promise being centred in Isaac, if he did not believe in the resurrection, if he did not trust the word and command of God, then Abraham would have been guilty of attempted murder. Similarly with the other example, without faith being the basis of Rahab’s actions, she would have been guilty of treason against her own city.

Read this scripture, it shows that Abraham wouldn't have received the promises from God if he had not obeyed, no matter how much faith:
Genesis 22:18 and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me."
As you can see from the scriptures that I gave, Abraham obeyed way before faith was mentions.
God only saves those who obey.

But there is no mention of justification before Genesis 15:6. God only saves those who have faith and it is up to God to determine when he considers our faith sufficient for salvation. A partial or incomplete faith may not be sufficient. We are not saved by our works, but we need to allow our faith to develop works.

You were taught wrong about no works. The works that no longer saved are the ceremonial/purification works.

I hope the above helps clarify the situation. The ceremonial/purification works never saved without faith. They must be works derived from faith. We need to believe the gospel and this will motivate us to be baptised into the death and resurrection of Christ and live the crucified life, based upon the love of Christ Acts 8:5,12, Galatians 2:20

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[meshak]

I hope the above helps clarify the situation. The ceremonial/purification works never saved without faith. They must be works derived from faith.

Hello, nice to meet you.

I don't think anyone strive to obey God without faith.

just my 10 cents.

 

[Faither]

Hello, nice to meet you.

I don't think anyone strive to obey God without faith.

just my 10 cents.

Hi Meshak , it's been a while . I see your still in the fight .

I just came back after being away for about 6 months , did you miss me?

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings meshak,

Hello, nice to meet you.
I don't think anyone strive to obey God without faith.
just my 10 cents.

Nice to meet you too. Your picture seems to indicate that you have a kind and pleasant disposition. I suggest that there is a difference between someone who has faith and also does works, and a person who does works motivated by their faith, or prompted and guided by their faith. Once we believe the gospel, we should be motivated to have a sincere earnest desire to be identified with the death and resurrection of Christ by baptism in water. But it is possible that some will want to be baptised simply because others around them have been baptised. Both appear the same, but the motivation is different. This is true of all manner of “works”. Abraham was commended because of his faith when he offered Isaac. Jesus put his trust in God his Father when he laid down his life for us. He asked the Father for life and God raised him from the dead and gave him eternal life Psalm 21:1-3,4-6 (KJV).

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[meshak]

Hi Meshak , it's been a while . I see your still in the fight .

I just came back after being away for about 6 months , did you miss me?

Well to be honest, I just don't understand why you dwell on "faither" thingy so much. This is all you talk about.

 

[steko]

Well to be honest, I just don't understand why you dwell on "faither" thingy so much. This is all you talk about.

Different strokes for different folks.
Some folks obsess on one thing and others obsess on another thing on this forum.

 

[God's Truth]

There is no mention that Abraham was justified by faith before Genesis 15:6, but Paul in Romans 4 uses Genesis 15:6 in two contexts.

God called Abraham and he obeyed, it is scripture PROVING Abraham’s righteousness was about OBEYING.

Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

You definitely should not have went on your arguement with a false premise.

 

[God's Truth]

The first refers directly to the Genesis 15:6 incident in Romans 4:1-5. This is speaking of Abraham being justified because of his faith, not his faith and his works. The second is in Romans 4:16-22 which speaks of when Abraham was strong in faith regarding the birth of Isaac. This is at it were the second major stage of Abraham’s faith. Yes, Abraham had obeyed the call in Genesis 12:1-3, but there is no mention that he was justified by faith at that stage. The third quotation of Genesis 15:6 is in James 2:20-24 and this was when Abraham obeyed and sacrificed Isaac. It even says that Genesis 15:6 is fulfilled in what Abraham did. Thus this is the third major stage of Abraham’s faith.

Believe James who says faith alone is DEAD.

That dead faith is not the most important faith ever know, it is dead.

That dead faith does not justify and make righteous anyone.

You can't get past that.

Dead faith is faith without right action and it is dead and it cannot justify.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

God called Abraham and he obeyed, it is scripture PROVING Abraham’s righteousness was about OBEYING.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
You definitely should not have went on your arguement with a false premise.

Believe James who says faith alone is DEAD.
That dead faith is not the most important faith ever know, it is dead.
That dead faith does not justify and make righteous anyone.

Faith produces acts of righteousness, but these acts or works are partial and incomplete. Faith is like the acorn to the oak. Faith grows in the individual taking possession of the individual’s thinking, emotions, motivations and ultimately his way of life and actions. If there is not this growth then it is like an acorn that fails to grow properly and becomes withered and dies. Perhaps the better figure is found in the Parable of the Sower and the good ground that brings forth fruit. As far as false premise is concerned, by putting too much weight on Genesis 12:1-3 and obedience and not enough weight on Genesis 15:6 and faith you have come up with a false premise. Salvation is by justification by faith, a living active faith that grows and Romans 1:5 and Romans 16:26 speak of the obedience of faith, or obedience to the faith.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[God's Truth]

But notice what kind of obedience is mentioned. It is not simply good works or charity. It is works derived from faith, or works in conformity with faith.

Right; so sounds like you are beginning to understand that faith alone is dead.

Without faith as a basis of what Abraham did, if he did not believe in the promise being centred in Isaac, if he did not believe in the resurrection, if he did not trust the word and command of God, then Abraham would have been guilty of attempted murder. Similarly with the other example, without faith being the basis of Rahab’s actions, she would have been guilty of treason against her own city.

If a person obeys God and does not yet have faith, they will come to have faith after they obey. See John 7:17.

But there is no mention of justification before Genesis 15:6.

Again, as I have explained it to you before, faith alone does not save, which means it does not justify, it does not make righteous, etc; because, faith, alone, is dead.
Dead faith does nothing, it is dead.

God only saves those who have faith and it is up to God to determine when he considers our faith sufficient for salvation.

God tells us what is sufficient.
God tells us what to do to be saved and it is not with dead faith.

A partial or incomplete faith may not be sufficient. We are not saved by our works, but we need to allow our faith to develop works.

Again, if a person wants to find out if what Jesus says is true because they do not yet believe, all they have to do is do the things Jesus says to do then they will have faith.
See John 7:17.

I hope the above helps clarify the situation. The ceremonial/purification works never saved without faith.

That is not true. The ceremonial/purification works were NOT based on faith.

Galatians 3:12 The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, it says, "The person who does these things will live by them."

God did not like it that a person could sin, give a sin offering, but not really be sorry for their sins. That is a reason we have the new covenant.

They must be works derived from faith. We need to believe the gospel and this will motivate us to be baptised into the death and resurrection of Christ and live the crucified life, based upon the love of Christ Acts 8:5,12, Galatians 2:20

As long as you understand that Jesus tells us what to do to get saved and to stay saved.
Jesus saves those who have faith and obey. Once someone is saved they now have help, but God does not make them obey.

 

[God's Truth]

Greetings again God's Truth, Faith produces acts of righteousness,

No, not always, some faith is dead.

but these acts or works are partial and incomplete. Faith is like the acorn to the oak. Faith grows in the individual taking possession of the individual’s thinking, emotions, motivations and ultimately his way of life and actions.

...and some people's faith is just dead.

If there is not this growth then it is like an acorn that fails to grow properly and becomes withered and dies. Perhaps the better figure is found in the Parable of the Sower and the good ground that brings forth fruit. As far as false premise is concerned, by putting too much weight on Genesis 12:1-3 and obedience and not enough weight on Genesis 15:6 and faith you have come up with a false premise.

No way, for what I told you I gave you scripture. No scripture says what you did. Scripture says faith alone is dead.

Salvation is by justification by faith, a living active faith that grows and Romans 1:5 and Romans 16:26 speak of the obedience of faith, or obedience to the faith.

Those scriptures prove that we have to have faith that is alive, living faith, and that only comes from faith with obedience.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings again God's Truth,

Again, as I have explained it to you before, faith alone does not save, which means it does not justify, it does not make righteous, etc; because, faith, alone, is dead.
Dead faith does nothing, it is dead.

Genesis 15:4-6 (KJV): 4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
You have not explained Genesis 15:6 where it states that God counted Abraham’s faith to him for righteousness. My understanding of this is that because of Abraham’s faith here, that God was willing to consider Abraham to be righteous. I understand this to represent the forgiveness of his past sins, and also equivalent to being righteous. Christ is the only one that has been without sin and lived a righteous life. Thus God considers Abraham as being within Christ, just as we are encouraged to believe in Christ and to be baptised into him Galatians 3:26-29.

Kind regards
Trevor