Are you Going to Heaven?

[KingdomRose]

Would you please quote in God's Word aka the Tanach where Yahweh ever made that promise of a new Eden on earth? The only Kingdom promised by the Lord to the saints of the Most High was a restored Land of Israel as long as the People of Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) That's applied Truth.

Here you are.....I thought you might be familiar with these passages from the Tanakh:

[The shoot that shall grow out of the stump of Jesse] "shall strike down a land with the rod of his mouth and slay the wicked with the breath of his lips. Justice shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his waist. The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, the leopard lie down with the kid; the calf, the beast of prey, and the fatling together, with a little boy to herd them. The cow and the bear shall graze, their young shall lie down together; and the lion, like the ox, shall eat straw. A babe shall play over a viper's hole, and an infant pass his hand over an adder's den. In all My sacred mount nothing evil or vile shall be done; for the land shall be filled with devotion to the LORD as water covers the sea." (Isaiah 11:1, 4-9, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh.)

*****

"The arid desert shall be glad, the wilderness shall rejoice and shall blossom like a rose. It shall blossom abundantly, it shall also exult and shout. ...Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped. Then the lame shall leap like a deer, and the tongue of the dumb shall shout aloud; for waters shall burst forth in the desert, streams in the wilderness. Torrid earth shall become a pool; parched land, fountains of water; the home of jackals, a pasture; the abode of ostriches, reeds and rushes." (Isaiah 35:1,2, 5-7, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh.

*****

"They shall build houses and dwell in them, they shall plant vineyards and enjoy their fruit. They shall not build for others to dwell in, or plant for others to enjoy. For the days of My people shall be as long as the days of a tree, my chosen ones shall outlive the work of their hands. They shall not toil to no purpose; they shall not bear children for terror, but they shall be a people blessed by the LORD." (Isaiah 65: 21-23, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh.

*****

"Every man shall sit under his grapevine or fig tree with no one to disturb him." (Micah 4:4, JPS Hebrew-English Tanakh)


I thought this was sufficient for us to see that these conditions, which do not exist now, will someday be the norm on the earth, and the Tanakh tells us so.

 

[KingdomRose]

You're a joke, right ?

He's not a joke, nor is he joking. What he said is true. The Bible is not taught in most churches. It's too bad that people don't know these simple truths. The earth was made for humans, and God's plan did not change.

"For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens...He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, but formed it to be inhabited, 'I am the LORD, and there is none else.'" (Isaiah 45:18)

*****

"The heavens are the heavens of the LORD, but the earth He has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16)

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"Evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth....The meek shall inherit the earth, and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37:9,11, KJV)

 

[Ben Masada]

1 - That is true.....you said NO ONE will go to heaven. I guess I didn't word my sentence very well. Yes, hell is the grave, but how does that reflect on the ones who will rule with Christ?

2 - Your 8....I agree, that is what Job thought at first. It took him awhile to understand what had happened. But he always believed in the resurrection, as he goes on to say:

3 - "If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait until my change comes. [Poetic license for waiting in the grave for his "change."] You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands." Job 14:14,15, NASB)

4 -Ben, you are free to have your own opinions, and I respect your views though I don't agree. People can take from Job and other scriptures what they see as reasonable. I see a definite belief in coming back from the dead in Job.

5 - I also see more in Daniel than you do. God had said that ALL the nations would be blessed, through Abraham, because Abraham listened to Him. (Genesis 18:18) Operative phrase: All the nations.

1 - No one will rule with Jesus. No one can rule in the grave. Jesus is dead. He was a Jew and a Jew once dead will never return from the grave.

2 - The Personage called Job never even existed in reality. The whole book of Job is only an allegory to teach the role of Israel as Immanuel to act as a mediator between God and man.

3 - "If" a man dies is not the question but "when" a man dies; and the answer to the question is "no". When a man dies he will never live again. "Until my change comes" said Job. He was referring to the change of his condition from a sick man and back to a healthy one again.

4 - Perhaps because you see with eyes intoxicated with Christian preconceived notions. The Jew who composed that Jewish allegory would not have done it to teach bodily resurrection which is an anti-Jewish doctrine.

5 - But you have not mentioned any thing about bodily resurrection. Daniel was a Jew to predict an anti-Jewish doctrine.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

That is true.....you said NO ONE will go to heaven. I guess I didn't word my sentence very well. Yes, hell is the grave, but how does that reflect on the ones who will rule with Christ?

Your 8....I agree, that is what Job thought at first. It took him awhile to understand what had happened. But he always believed in the resurrection, as he goes on to say:

"If a man dies, will he live again? All the days of my struggle I will wait until my change comes. [Poetic license for waiting in the grave for his "change."] You will call, and I will answer You; You will long for the work of Your hands." Job 14:14,15, NASB)

Ben, you are free to have your own opinions, and I respect your views though I don't agree. People can take from Job and other scriptures what they see as reasonable. I see a definite belief in coming back from the dead in Job. I also see more in Daniel than you do. God had said that ALL the nations would be blessed, through Abraham, because Abraham listened to Him. (Genesis 18:18) Operative phrase: All the nations.

The ancient Jews were well versed with the belief in a resurrection as this was taught as part of the Mosaic Law.

Recall what Martha said to Jesus regarding the death of Lazarus:- Matthew 11:24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day". Jesus in the following verse confirming to Martha that there would be a resurrection said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life;

Jesus himself also confirms the resurrection in John 6:40 saying "For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

It was only the Sadducee's who didn't believe in a resurrection as reminded here in Acts 23:8 which states: "Sadducees say there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit". Jesus when refuting the Sadducee's pointed them straight back to the Mosaic Law regarding the resurrection, which interestingly the Pharisees and the Essene's also believed in the resurrection on the "Last Day". Considering how well versed the Jews were with the Law which was provided by regular religious instruction its quite clear that since the days of the prophets and may be even as far back as when 'Israel' came out of Egypt the Hebrews were well versed in a resurrection that would occur on a world wide scale, the subsequent works of Elijah, Jesus and Paul being a testament to this.

 

[Ben Masada]

No....it's not that no one is supposed to sacrifice his life for anyone else; it is that there is no human on the earth that can do it, because no human born from Adam is perfect.

That is why Jesus had to do it. He was a perfect spirit person, and he was born a perfect human through Mary.

I don't think so. Jesus was a learned man and he knew that from Eccles. 7:20 that "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a Jew upon earth and broke the Golden Rule 15 times only in the text of Mat. 23:13-33. The Golden Rule teaches that no one should do unto others what he or she would not have liked they did against him or herself. Jesus offended the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers and I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way. So, he became a sinner too just like you and me. Therefore, he was no paragon of perfection.

 

[Ben Masada]

All I did was quote scripture, too bad you reject it.

As far as I am concerned you have simply quoted the wrong scripture, that's all.

 

[KingdomRose]

I don't think so. Jesus was a learned man and he knew that from Eccles. 7:20 that "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a Jew upon earth and broke the Golden Rule 15 times only in the text of Mat. 23:13-33. The Golden Rule teaches that no one should do unto others what he or she would not have liked they did against him or herself. Jesus offended the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers and I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way. So, he became a sinner too just like you and me. Therefore, he was no paragon of perfection.

You forget one important fact: Jesus was a PERFECT man. He would not be included in what Eccles.7:20 says. He did NOT break the Golden Rule, ever. Jesus was concerned about the people and how they were being spiritually neglected by their religious leaders (as well as physically neglected). Reading through the Hebrew Scriptures shows us how the people were taken advantage of, and the injustices they suffered. I don't think Jesus was amiss in telling the religious higher-ups just what they were doing to ignore their responsibilities. No, he was not a sinner. He wanted the proud, selfish, materialistic religious leaders to wake up to what they were doing to overstep the commands of God.

 

[Ben Masada]

Would you please quote in God's Word aka the Tanach where Yahweh ever made that promise of a new Eden on earth? The only Kingdom promised by the Lord to the saints of the Most High was a restored Land of Israel as long as the People of Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever. (Jer. 31:35-37) That's applied Truth.

The key to the text above is "as long as the People of Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever." Jer. 31:35-37. It means that God's promises are all conditional as they have been from the very beginning. Indeed, since the days of Abraham the Lord has confirmed His promises of a restored Land of Israel to the last arrangement with the New Covenant.(Jer. 31:31; Ezek. 37:22) But we have been granted with the attribute of Freewill and for that matter, God's promises are conditional at our remaining as a nation before the Lord forever; not of a time now and than. Forever is the condition. As long as we live.

 

[Ben Masada]

You forget one important fact: Jesus was a PERFECT man. He would not be included in what Eccles.7:20 says. He did NOT break the Golden Rule, ever. Jesus was concerned about the people and how they were being spiritually neglected by their religious leaders (as well as physically neglected). Reading through the Hebrew Scriptures shows us how the people were taken advantage of, and the injustices they suffered. I don't think Jesus was amiss in telling the religious higher-ups just what they were doing to ignore their responsibilities. No, he was not a sinner. He wanted the proud, selfish, materialistic religious leaders to wake up to what they were doing to overstep the commands of God.

Rose, anyone can see that you are letting yourself be taken away by Christian preconceived notions. To tell you the truth, I wonder why because Jesus was a Jewish man and never had anything to do with Christianity.
You should stand for Paul and not for Jesus because Paul was the founder of Christianity, not Jesus. (Acts 11:26)

 

[Bright Raven]

Yes.

Philippians 3:20-21 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

21 who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

 

[Ktoyou]

I don't think so. Jesus was a learned man and he knew that from Eccles. 7:20 that "There has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned." Jesus was a Jew upon earth and broke the Golden Rule 15 times only in the text of Mat. 23:13-33. The Golden Rule teaches that no one should do unto others what he or she would not have liked they did against him or herself. Jesus offended the Jewish authorities with being hypocrites and brood of vipers and I am sure he would not have liked to be treated that way. So, he became a sinner too just like you and me. Therefore, he was no paragon of perfection.

You think this because you are not a Christian

 

[ok doser]

Are you Going to Heaven?

why, yes


yes i am



thanks for asking

 

[Ben Masada]

You think this because you are not a Christian

Did you know that to be a Catholic is the same as to being a Christian? I have recently read "The Summa Theologica" by the famous Catholic Theologian Thomas Aquinas and he says that to go to Heaven, you have to be a Catholic. Do you agree with him? If you don't, you won't go to Heaven.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Did you know that to be a Catholic is the same as to being a Christian? I have recently read "The Summa Theologica" by the famous Catholic Theologian Thomas Aquinas and he says that to go to Heaven, you have to be a Catholic. Do you agree with him? If you don't, you won't go to Heaven.

There's not a single passage or verse in the Bible that supports these spurious claims.

 

[Ben Masada]

There's not a single passage or verse in the Bible that supports these spurious claims.

I was aware of that. That's why I quoted the Summa Theologica and not the Bible. Now, it is your turn. Where in the Bible does it say that to go to Heaven, we need to be a Christian? Would you please?

 

[Ben Masada]

You forget one important fact: Jesus was a PERFECT man. He would not be included in what Eccles.7:20 says. He did NOT break the Golden Rule, ever. Jesus was concerned about the people and how they were being spiritually neglected by their religious leaders (as well as physically neglected). Reading through the Hebrew Scriptures shows us how the people were taken advantage of, and the injustices they suffered. I don't think Jesus was amiss in telling the religious higher-ups just what they were doing to ignore their responsibilities. No, he was not a sinner. He wanted the proud, selfish, materialistic religious leaders to wake up to what they were doing to overstep the commands of God.

To claim that Jesus was a perfect man without sin is to deny both the Tanach and even the NT itself. The Tanach that says that there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned (Ecclesiastes 7:20) and what the NT says about Jesus in Matthew 23:13-33 when he broke the Golden Rule for 15 times. Not to mention the physical and financial damages he caused to the money-changers before the Temple. There are many more human ways to deal with our neighbors without offending them.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

I was aware of that. That's why I quoted the Summa Theologica and not the Bible. Now, it is your turn. Where in the Bible does it say that to go to Heaven, we need to be a Christian? Would you please?

Your question lacks context and seems too narrow. Firstly the Bible doesn't explicitly state that in order to have the heavenly calling you need to be a Christian, certainly not using the wording you've stated anyway. But the correct and only assumption for receiving the heavenly calling could only be from those who are "followers of the Christ" which is what Jesus said in Luke 18:22 "come be my follower". Jesus did after all have many disciples or followers as well as the 12 Apostles which he directly appointed.

Followers of Jesus or the Christ came to be known as Christians in Acts 11:26. Comparatively there were also many who followed John Bapitizer who were known as disciples of John. Mark 2:18 "Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees practiced fasting. So they came and said to him: “Why do John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees practice fasting, but your disciples do not practice fasting".
John the bapitzer who was the promised messenger who would 'clear the way' for Christ as prophesied in the book of Malachi went on to say in John 3:30 "That one must keep on increasing, but I must keep on decreasing". Here he was referring to Jesus. Not long afterwards John met an untimely death at the hands of Herods wife, of which many of Johns disciples became disciples and followers of Jesus.

Therefore its self evident throughout the gospels and right up till the book of Revelation who salvation is provided through,Jesus. Thus the only logical conclusion can be that unless you are a follower of the Christ/Jesus ergo a Christian then you would not have a heavenly calling.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

To claim that Jesus was a perfect man without sin is to deny both the Tanach and even the NT itself. The Tanach that says that there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned (Ecclesiastes 7:20) and what the NT says about Jesus in Matthew 23:13-33 when he broke the Golden Rule for 15 times. Not to mention the physical and financial damages he caused to the money-changers before the Temple. There are many more human ways to deal with our neighbors without offending them.

Presuambly you're Jewish? If so isn't this a bit of a redundant argument as you don't believe Jesus was the Messiah?

Regardless the Temple was a HOLY place where the prescense of God resided. (The same was true with the Ark of the Covenant that was kept in the 'most holy') Solomon initially built it only for it to be utterly destroyed by the Babylonians. The Temple was again rebuilt after a faithful remnant returned from Babylon to Jerusalem only for the Temple to again by desecrated by the ruling Greeks who sacrified to their gods in the Temple which spawed the Maccabean revolt. The Temple was re-dedicated hence the celebration of Hanukkah which was inaugurated by the Pharisee's to celebrate the inauguration.
The Temple featured heavily in Jewish Prophecy in the Hebrew Scriptures as well as being of vital importance in religious worship to the Jews. So its importance should not be understated. Thus Jesus righteous indignation at the way the money changers had A) Not only triviliased the Mosaic Law as well as the Law Covenant between Abraham and God, but B) Also profaned Gods name, blasphemed Gods name, and treated God with complete contempt with the illegal practrices they carried out in Gods temple. So in my opinion Jesus action was warranted and certainly blameless.

 

[Ben Masada]

Your question lacks context and seems too narrow. Firstly the Bible doesn't explicitly state that in order to have the heavenly calling you need to be a Christian, certainly not using the wording you've stated anyway. But the correct and only assumption for receiving the heavenly calling could only be from those who are "followers of the Christ" which is what Jesus said in Luke 18:22 "come be my follower". Jesus did after all have many disciples or followers as well as the 12 Apostles which he directly appointed.

Did you know that Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism? Needless to mention if you can understand Logic,to be a follower of Jesus we must belong in the Faith of Jesus. Are you Jewish? Yeah, I am sorry for the disappointment but, Jesus was not a Christian.

Followers of Jesus or the Christ came to be known as Christians in Acts 11:26. Comparatively there were also many who followed John Bapitizer who were known as disciples of John. Mark 2:18 "Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees practiced fasting. So they came and said to him: “Why do John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees practice fasting, but your disciples do not practice fasting". John the bapitzer who was the promised messenger who would 'clear the way' for Christ as prophesied in the book of Malachi went on to say in John 3:30 "That one must keep on increasing, but I must keep on decreasing". Here he was referring to Jesus. Not long afterwards John met an untimely death at the hands of Herods wife, of which many of Johns disciples became disciples and followers of Jesus.

The text in Acts 11:26 is about Paul as the founder of Christianity. Jesus never had any thing at all to do with Christianity. He never even dreamed that the NT would ever be written or that Christianity would ever rise. And the disciples of John the Baptist who became followers of Jesus were Jewish just as Jesus was. No contradiction here.

Therefore its self evident throughout the gospels and right up till the book of Revelation who salvation is provided through,Jesus. Thus the only logical conclusion can be that unless you are a follower of the Christ/Jesus ergo a Christian then you would not have a heavenly calling.

Nevertheless, Jesus himself declared that salvation is provided through obedience of God's Law. In the parable of the Richman and Lazarus he said that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. You can read Luke 16:29-31 if you find it too hard to believe. Thus, the only logical conclusion is that unless you become a follower according to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism, ergo a Jew, then you will not have a heavenly calling. Sorry but the Truth is sometimes hard to take.

 

[SonOfCaleb]

Did you know that Jesus was a Jew whose Faith was Judaism? Needless to mention if you can understand Logic,to be a follower of Jesus we must belong in the Faith of Jesus. Are you Jewish? Yeah, I am sorry for the disappointment but, Jesus was not a Christian.

The Hebrew scriptures prophesised that the Christ would come from the line of Judah. Thus its evident from tthe Hebrew scriptures long before Jesus birth that he would be a Jew. I'm not entirely sure why you're pointing out this out when that point is obvious as he was born to Jewish parents.....As for Jesus not being a Christian if you're going to rankle on semantics well of course he wasn't...after all he was the Christ and didn't need to follow himself...Christian was just the appelation for followers of Christ which i've already explained.

The text in Acts 11:26 is about Paul as the founder of Christianity. Jesus never had any thing at all to do with Christianity. He never even dreamed that the NT would ever been written or Christianity would ever rise. And the disciples of John
the Baptist who became followers of Jesus were Jewish just as Jewish was. No contradiction here.

With all due respect im going to ignore this paragraph as its nonsense. Likewise your lata sentence is also irrelavent.

Nevertheless, Jesus himself declared that salvation is provided through obedience of God's Law. In the parable of the Richman and Lazarus he said that to achieve salvation, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. You can read Luke 16:29-31 if you find too hard to believe. Thus, the only logical conclusion is that unless you become a follower according to the Faith of Jesus which was Judaism, ergo a Jew, then you will not have a heavenly calling. Sorry but the Truth is sometimes hard to take.

This is obviously your conclusion, and thus your version of what you think the 'truth' is, which is in clear contradiction of what the Bible says which is Gods word (2 Tim 3:16) . Seems somewhat ironic that you don't believe Jesus was the Messiah or Christ, in fact according to Judaism you believe him to be a fraud. And yet you're conviniently trying to use Jesus teachings as proof of Jewish primacy.