Are You A True Believer?
- Thread starter Squeaky
- Start date
It didn't seem to apply to my precise question , but of coarse its NO.
We all would agree that Christ or His Word can never be put on trial.
The problem is , in Rom. 10:17 the word hearing , AKOE 189 in the strongs , reads as follows.
Strongs 189 : Rom. 10:17 "the recieving of a message" , something more than mere sense of "hearing" ; an interaction with the word and a decision is always made. [Compare to a courtroom]".
Ok , so this word the writers used for "hearing" is actually like the word used in a courtroom hearing. So you and i already agreeing that we can NEVER put God or His Word on trial , presents two major problems with the worlds understanding of Rom. 10:17.
Hear is how it should read , IMO. "Faith comes by "a" hearing , "a" hearing by the Word of God.
The first correction ,Christ being the Word incarnate puts Himself in the judges seat instead of us as it should be . The second correction is it's "US" who are on trial , not Jesus. So whats on trial , "OUR FAITH". Christ is making a decision just like in a courtroom that determines whether our "surrendering" (faith) is genuine or not. If it's deemed genuine we move forward in the Salvation process , if deemed not genuine we move backwards in the process. There is no state of neutral or just belief. Christ is either moving us towards Him by increasing our faith or the ability to surrender ourselves at a deeper level , or He is moving us away from Him back to the state of just being drawn to Him by the Father.
This is the correct understanding of Rom. 10:17 according to Scripture , the Greek dictionary , and my experience for the last 30 years.
I said
Do you see the difference. You look at everything intellectually. I look at everything through the Holy Spirit. But you do come closer than a lot I have talk to. Do you realize that God doesn't put much value on intellectual knowledge?
Luk 10:21
In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, “I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
1Co 1:19
For it is written:
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[fn
1Co 1:26
For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
1Co 1:27
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
1Co 3:18
Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise.
1Co 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, “He catches the wise in their own craftiness”;
1Co 3:20
and again, “The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.”
Last edited:
You didn't know what true NT faith and faithing are so how can you possibly have been sealed with the Holy Spirit. I asked you anyway ,if you have the Spirit of Christ you have the Mind of Christ , you don't know what it's like to have the Mind of Christ. You said you can translate Scripture , i gave you an example to show if you do have insights by the Holy Spirit , and you couldn't.
It's not about intelligence , i'm a disabled old bricklayer who has been surrendering His life to Christ for 30 years and have been studying Gods Word at a Stanford university level for 28 of those. What i shared with you is the truth , i won't debate it with you . I'l only discuss any questions you have through private messages if you like.
Don't you think you can learn what Jesus teaches by reading His word? Do you think it is necessary to take university Bible classes?
thank you.
peace.
I said
lol You have been studying intellectually. Not submissively to the Holy Spirit. That is why you don't know or even follow the rules of believing. Have you read my revelation on "Intellectual Idiots"?
The main rules of believing is to NOT think beyond what is written. I like that faithing trick, its not scriptural but it is cute.
1Co 4:6
Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
Another is like it don't add one thing to the verses or take one thing away from the verses. And you have done both.
Rev 22:18
¶
For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
Rev 22:19
and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
If one loves Jesus they will keep the verses. If one does not love Jesus they will change the words to suit themselves. And if they don't keep Jesus Word the Holy Spirit cant teach them from inside.
Jhn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
Jhn 14:24
“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
When they reject Jesus Word, they walk in deception.
Jhn 12:48
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49
“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50
“And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”
Jhn 14:23
Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him.
Jhn 14:24
“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.
When they reject Jesus Word, they walk in deception.
Jhn 12:48
“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
Jhn 12:49
“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50
“And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.”
Hi Meshak hope you have been well. I've always had a soft spot for you in my heart , and i hope some of the talks we've had in the past have helped you in some way.
Let me answer your question. I think that today's christain is so fixated on Gods Word , that they have made it their object of Faith instead of Christ Himself.
What was it like for people that God the Father would call or draw to Christ before the Written Word was widely known. Does that mean The Father couldn't draw people to Christ before the 1500's ? No , the Father could still draw people to Christ and they could respond "in faith" without ever hearing Gods Written Word. I can say that because responding "in faith" is the same today as it was in the year 384 AD. The response to the Call of the Father is , "A personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender."
So the answer to your question is no , we don't need college classes , we need to first practice a life of continually surrendering ourselves to Him. Making decisions every day that support that surrender. Once Christ has accepted, tested, and sealed the Holy Spirit in us , it's His life now. So where ever He leeds us is where we need to go.
And I pointed out that it was the Lord JHWH, who made Jesus our Lord King and High priest.
Acts 3:19-20; Catholic Study Edition , GNB: Repent then and turn to God so that he will forgive your sins. If you do, times of spiritual strength will come from the 'LORD=JEHOVAH,' and He will send Jesus, who is the Messiah that he has already CHOSEN for you.
The man Jesus, was chosen and made both "Lord=kurios=Lord, sir, Master," and saviour by the Lord "WHO I AM/JHWH".
The Lord Jehovah, and the Lord Jesus Christ, are two distinct and different persons.
I said
Your right they are two different beings. The LORD God Almighty and the Lord Jesus Christ.
In Acts 9:7; the Greek "akouo," meaning "To give ear" or "to hear," is used, where it is written; “The men who were travelling with Paul heard=AKOUO the voice but did not see anyone. The same Greek term is used in Acts 22: 9; where Paul says that the men with him saw the light (Of the presence of the then glorified body of Jesus of Nazareth) but they did not hear=”akouo,” the voice of the one who was speaking to me. This interpretation pit God’s word against itself.
But when we look to 1st Corinthians 14: 2; we find there that it is written, "The one who speaks in strange tongues does not speak to others but to God, because no one, “akouo = UNDERSTANDS” him." The Greek "akouo" is here translated "TO UNDERSTAND" and so Acts 9:7; reveals that the men who were with Paul heard the voice, but Acts 22: 9; reveals that they did not understand what the voice they heard was saying.
Right Divider
Body part
You believe wrongly.
Luke 1:31-35 (AKJV/PCE)
(1:31) And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. (1:32) He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: (1:33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end. (1:34) Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?(1:35) And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Jesus had but ONE human parent.
What I think main problem is that too many Christians don't seem to know the whole context of the Bible, God and Jesus.
If we get grasp of this, it is not so hard do follow Jesus' teachings or understand what He is saying.
Christianity is after all following Jesus' teachings. And they don't seem to know this simple and basic principle.
There were two trees in the garden of eden. Tree of the knowledge of good and evil=mans wisdom, college.
And the tree of life=experience, Holy Spirit.
Jhn 6:63
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Jhn 14:26
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
1Co 2:1
And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
1Co 2:3
I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4
And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5
that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
And the tree of life=experience, Holy Spirit.
Jhn 6:63
“It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Jhn 14:26
“But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
1Co 2:1
And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2
For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
1Co 2:3
I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4
And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5
that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
Was Jesus born of a virgin?
Mary was a virgin right up until the act by which she conceived her firstborn son Jesus, who was sired by Joseph ben Heli. See Luke 3: 23.
Isaiah 7: 14; Correct Jewish Translation: Therefore, the Lord, of His own, shall give you a sign; behold, the "YOUNG WOMAN" is with child, and she shall bear a son, and she shall call his name Immanuel.
The emphasis of this prophecy should be in the fact that the child would be called "IMMANUEL=GOD IS WITH US." For the man Jesus was the chosen earthly host body through whom the Lord would reveal himself to us. Jesus who was filled with the spirit of the Lord which descended upon him in the form of a dove, as the voice of the Lord was heard to say, “You are my son, ‘THIS DAY=TODAY’ I have ‘BEGOTTEN THEE=TODAY I HAVE BECOME YOUR FATHER’”.
Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, "THE VIRGIN" shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
The Greek word parthenos used in Matthew 1:23 ; is ambiguous but the Hebrew term "Almah" that is erroneously translated in some Christian bibles as "virgin" is absolute, and according to Young"s Analytical Concordance to the Bible, the Hebrew term "Almah," carries the meaning, (Concealment---unmarried female.)
Go to "A Dictionary of Biblical Tradition in English Literature," by David Jeffery.
There you will find written, "Many scholars consider the new Revised Standard Version of the King James translation, which is probably the most widely used version of the English bible today, and considered by most modern scholars to be to be the most accurate translation of the Old Testament. It follows the modern consensus in translating "Almah" as "Young Woman" in Isaiah 7: 14.
In 1973, an ecumenical edition of RSV was approved by both Protestant and Catholic hierarchies, called the common bible. As a matter of fact, I have in front of me, A New English Translation of the Bible, published in 1970 and approved by the council of churches in England, Scotland, Wales, the Irish council of churches, the London Society of Friends, and the Methodist and Presbyterian churches of England. And there in the RSV we read in Isaiah 7: 14; "A young Woman is with child, and she will bear a son." I also have before me The Good News Bible, catholic Study Edition, with imprimatur by Archbishop John Whealon: and on turning to Isaiah 7: 14; It says here, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc."
But even after admitting that the prophet Isaiah never did say that a virgin would conceive etc, but rather, "A YOUNG WOMAN" who is pregnant will have a son," in Matthew 1: 22; concerning the birth of the child Jesus, it is written; "Now all this happened in order to make come true what the Lord had said through the prophet (Isaiah)" they here claim that he said a virgin who is pregnant, which is an absolute lie, because they have already Admitted that Isaiah never did say that.
In translating the Hebrew words of the prophet Isaiah, that an "Almah" an "unmarried female" is with child and will bear a son," into Greek, which unlike the Hebrew language, does not have a specific term for "virgin," the authors of the Septuagint and Matthew correctly used the Greek word "Parthenos," which carries a basic meaning of "girl," or unmarried youth, and denotes "virgin" ONLY by implication.
A more accurate rendering of the Greek "parthenos" is a person who does not have a regular sexual partner, a widow with a family of children, would be a "parthenos".
In reference to Hanna who nursed the baby Jesus before Mary performed the ceremony of purification, it is said that Anna was a prophetess who earnestly hoped for the coming of the Messiah, she was an old woman of 84 and had been a widow for seven years, never remarrying, but remaining in her parthenia=unmarried and sexually chaste state, ect, She was a parthenos, but that does not mean that she was a virgin.
To translate something from the Hebrew to the Greek, or from any language to another, one must not lose the essence of the original, and the original was, that "A young woman was with child." Therefore, as the greater majority of churches now admit, that the words of Isaiah, were "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Matthew 1: 23; should now read, "Now all this happened to make come true what the Lord had said through Isaiah, "A young woman who is pregnant will have a son, etc." Because they all now admit that those were the words of Isaiah 7: 14.
The Septuagint was a translation of the Hebrew Old Testament into Greek, by Hebrews in Alexandria, before the days of Jesus and they like Matthew, were forced to use the Greek term, "Parthenos" in translating the Hebrew "Almah" Because there was no other word in that Language that they could use for maiden, or young girl, etc.
"Parthenos," was often used in reference to non-virgins who had never been married. Homer uses it in reference to unmarried girls who were no longer virgins, and Homer was the standard textbook for learning Greek all throughout antiquity, so any writer of Greek, including Matthew, who translated Isaiah"s words, that (An unmarried woman would be with child etc) while being well aware of this words versatile and indefinite meaning; was in no way implying that Mary was a virgin.
For the Hebrew has a specific term for "virgin," "Bethulah" which word is used in every instance in the Old Testament where a woman who has never had sexual intercourse with a man is referred to, which would have been the word used by Isaiah if it was indeed the intent of the Lord to convey the message that a virgin would bear a child, which is obviously not the case with the unmarried woman/Almah, who is mentioned in Isaiah 7:14.
In Pergamos, as one of the final stages in the quest for enlightenment, the initiated adept would participate in sex with the Temple Virgin/Parthenos.
"Parthenos" did not mean possessing an intact hymen. A parthenos was simply an unmarried woman, a woman who claimed ownership of herself.
I said
They supposed He was of Joseph because they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet.
John 7:38-39
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)
23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,
You are the Erroneous one for adding this.
Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, "THE VIRGIN" shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
There are rules of believing for true believers. You break all the rules.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
They supposed He was of Joseph because they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet.
John 7:38-39
38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."
39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
(NKJ)
23 Now Jesus Himself began His ministry at about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, the son of Heli,
You are the Erroneous one for adding this.
Isaiah 7: 14; Erroneous KJV Translation: Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, "THE VIRGIN" shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel.
There are rules of believing for true believers. You break all the rules.
1 Cor 4:6
6 Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other.
(NKJ)
Rev 22:18-19
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
(NKJ)
Read Luke 1: 67; Then tell everyone that they didn't have the Holy Spirit yet.
John the Baptist was born, before Jesus.