CherubRam
New member
Thank you Meshak.
Are You A Grafted Branch?
- Thread starter CherubRam
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Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Of course I never expect a straight answer from you.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
The Christian is told that they already possess eternal life (1 Jn.5:11). And here is what the Lord Jesus says about those to whom He gives eternal life:
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (Jn.10:28).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
You assume that the Olive Tree is a so-called "spiritual Israel" despite the fact that the Scriptures will be searched in vain for that idea!
beloved57
Well-known member
I have no problem with what your asking and have answered it before, plenty times, but you need to study for yourself. Scripture says plainly that natural branches were broken off, and wild branches [gentiles] were grafted in, into the good olive tree. Now I dont have to explain nothing to you, answer any of your questions about it, you either believe the truth or not. Im under not one bit of obligation to you sir ! Now Rom 11:17
And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Now go do your own study !
beloved57
Well-known member
Now this grafting in of the gentiles amongst Spiritual Israel , The Church/body of Christ in the Ot, it was something predicted and hinted at back in the day of Moses Deut 32:21
1 They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people; I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation.
This foolish Nation I believe is the Calling of the Gentiles, and the Nation here Matt 21:43
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
This fruitful nation REPLACES national Israel as the custodial for the Word of God. Also more specifically the grafting in is seen here Deut 32:43
Rejoice, O ye nations, with his people: for he will avenge the blood of his servants, and will render vengeance to his adversaries, and will be merciful unto his land, and to his people.
And based upon this Paul was sent to the Gentiles Rom 15:8-10
Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
9 And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
10 And again he saith, Rejoice, ye Gentiles, with his people.
That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles
might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.
Also remember, when it says "rejoice ye gentiles with His People" its not referring to the nation of Israel, for that nation as a whole was not His People He foreknew as Per Rom 11:1-2
I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,
That was a small remnant within the rejected nation, that which was broken off !
There is this:
Jer 11:16
The LORD called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.
17For the LORD of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal.
The idea of Israel being the salvation of Gentiles is also not new...
Isa 49:6 Indeed He says, ‘It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant To raise up the tribes of Jacob, And to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’”
Is 56:6
And foreigners who bind themselves to the LORD to minister to him, to love the name of the LORD, and to be his servants, all who keep the Sabbath without desecrating it and who hold fast to my covenant...
This grafting to a trunk and root of earlier tradition is specified by Paul
Eph 2:11Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— 12remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. 13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Is why I maintain we are to more not less than that which was prior...came before us...
Nanja
Well-known member
Interplanner
Well-known member
These are good supports. for some reason 'spiritual' becomes a 'dirty word' when it simply means that the basis of identity is faith in the great Gospel, not a race or heredity.
Judaic Israel is long gone, spiritual Israel is the family of God with Jesus Christ (the servant of God) as King.
Yes! Amen.
Let's spin again.
Jesus said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Why?
Because only Jacob's people were the Father's firstborn son.
God promised Abraham: "I will make you a great nation..."
What is the name of that great nation? Any idea?
God further stipulated: "And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."
Luke 3:13 *The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus...
God changed the name of one of the fathers. What was the name changed to?
Does anyone know?
Someone said, "The Body of Christ is not Israel, and you know it."
How foolish. The God of Jacob (Israel) is the God of David.
Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
The root of David of the tribe of Judah?
Who could that be?
Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.
The scepter will not depart from Judah... (Genesis 49:10)
Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."
There are no Gentiles in God's kingdom.
Galatians 3:26-29 *For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
Abraham's posterity is the kingdom of God.
How foolish. The God of Jacob (Israel) is the God of David.
Revelation 5:5 But one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep. Behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has prevailed to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals.”
The root of David of the tribe of Judah?
Who could that be?
Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.
The scepter will not depart from Judah... (Genesis 49:10)
Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom."
There are no Gentiles in God's kingdom.
Galatians 3:26-29 *For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
Abraham's posterity is the kingdom of God.
John the Baptist said trees plural not tree singular...Matt 3:10"And even now the ax is laid to the root of the trees Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."
So some trees were unfruitful and were cut down but some were...John baptized the latter trees and later a greater One than he baptized even more...and with the Spirit not water even...ALL symbolic...
"11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry."
So there always remains a remnant...back to the root...back to the original promise...
Paul describes it as some branches were being cut off for unbelief...
"Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree..."
But notice "For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches." See? The root is holy thus some of the branches remain...
Obviously...blindness happened only in part to Israel in order to make room for Gentiles...
"5 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be awise in your own 6opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel cuntil the fullness of the Gentiles has come in."
And then all of Israel will be saved next verse.
Provoked by jealousy of Gentiles? Sure...but since the beginning there were always goyim who lived and amongst them and benefited from it ONE LAW for both native and foreigner...but now IN Him no longer seperation...and the goyim are blessed as family...THAT is what the Jews are jealous about...remember the prodigal son? They are the jealous older brother...
Some Jews repent now knowing it never was ethnic privilege but obedience and testimony of Him...but again only a remnant as most Jews like the idolatry of Zionism and its abominations just fine...as if that land is holy still...
Judah was merely a part of the children of Israel...and Jacob indeed goes back to the root...but now by faith and obedience we are all indeed children of Israel a spiritual blessing in a spiritual realm...not worldly power etc...as he was Jacob the physical grandson of Abraham but then given the spiritual name of Israel...and only the obedient remain...lack of faith cuts one off...
I suspect most argue here to avoid the OT laws so the argument needs to reject Israel...lol...as if Jacob didn't worship the one true Yah in true manner...
The rest argue goyim aren't included in Israel...
Either argument is weak...
The physical literal body of Christ was indeed a descendent of Jacob and it was this Seed which proclaimed ANY who obey the will of His Father are His brother and sisters and mother...these faithful obedient to HIM HIS WAY are known as the body of Christ...the church of the wilderness...of which He is the Head cornerstone foundation originator etc...
Israel was a given name...please remember Who gave it...that is the blessing
I am grafted onto the olive tree of the remnant. That is one sin I would definitely pray off is the blanket hate of his relatives. I don't even know if this is a sin you can cover with the blood of Jesus. My gosh I can't even fathom disrespecting his relatives like that. How can you get to the inner court if you haven't been grafted onto the olive tree?
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