ARE THERE ANY EXCEPTIONS?
- Thread starter Truster
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Ask Mr. Religion
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Poor, poor, Pharaoh. If only he had chosen wisely. He could have done so all on his own accord. God need not have done anything other than dazzle him with the miraculous. That alone, should have been sufficient.
After all, Pharaoh could have considered what he had witnessed. Pharaoh could have examined his circumstances using his powers of reason, albeit with some nudges by the Holy Spirit, and made the right decision.
Later, when gathered at the feast of celebration, when asked, "How come you made the right decision, yet others have not?" the mighty Pharaoh could say, "Well, I am a thinking man, as you know. I considered what has been happening, and all the things that fellow Moses was talking about, and it seemed to me that choosing as I did was a smart move. I just wish the others you mentioned were as capable as I was in these situations and as discerning in the prodding of the Holy Spirit they are all also getting as did myself." No doubt those sitting at the feast table would look to one another in admiration of the wisdom of their great leader. If only all were just as discerning and wise!
What a disappointing view of God this presents.
God sits upon His throne wringing His hands in the hope that His autonomous creatures will just please, please, please, choose wisely. Sure, God could have just worked to give these fallen in Adam creatures a new heart (Eze. 36:26), but He apparently favors the creature's libertarian free will so much—Cyrus notwithstanding of course—that God would rather just sit back wooing, cajoling, and courting a potential lover. I suppose God, speaking plainly via the superintending of the Holy Spirit in the writers of Holy Writ about the moral state of these creatures was just having the writers pen some very confused teachings about the actual moral state of the non-believer.
Despite what God's special revelation—Scripture—teaches, maybe God assumed these creatures were not really deceitful and desperately sick (Jer. 17:9), nor full of evil (Mark 7:21-23), actually able to come to Jesus without being given to do so by God (Eph. 2:2), not in need of quickening (Eph. 2:4-5), able to choose righteousness (Titus 3:5), lovers of light (John 3:19), were righteous, able to understand, were seeking for God (Rom. 3:10-12), not really helpless, but actually godly (Rom. 5:6), alive in their trespasses and sins (Eph. 2-1), by nature children of the love of God (Eph. 2-3), able to understand spiritual things (1 Cor 2:14), and free from their bondage of sin (Rom. 6:15-20).
Er, no. :AMR:
AMR
oatmeal
Well-known member
Yes, God supports what He does,
He does not support what unbelievers and devil spirits do.
God is good, always, without exception..
If you knew and understood the scriptures you'd recognise the doctrines contained within. You don't so that means you are not led, upheld or indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
God's Truth
New member
God hardening Pharaoh is proof that we have free will.
If no one can believe in God unless He allows it, then why was Pharaoh believing?
If no one can believe in God unless He ordains it, then God would not ever of had need to harden Pharaoh.
God cut off and hardened Jews when Jesus started his earthly ministry; which also proves that we have free will. God has hardened people at certain times, but again, it proves that we do have free will or there would be no need to be hardened.
Here are some scriptures that Calvinists have been taught wrong:
Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
Did you read that?
That is not about every single heart being deceitful. That scripture is about how a human heart can be deceitful above all the things in this world.
Other scriptures Calvinists were taught wrong;
Ephesians 2:1
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.
The Gentiles were dead in their sins, they did not atone for their souls like the Jews did with the purification/ceremonial works.
The purification/ceremonial works of the law were how the Jews cleaned themselves just so they could go to the temple to worship God where His Spirit was.
Read this next scripture; it is ANOTHER scripture about the Gentiles being DEAD in their SINS. Now read carefully, for Paul explains that it is the UNCIRCUMCISION of their flesh. See circumcision in the flesh is a sign that you do the ceremonial works and clean yourself so that you have a covenant with God:
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Paul is explaining how Jesus saved us while we were dead in our sins, Gentiles who did not obey and do the ceremonial works, and how Jesus saved us and did not make us get circumcised first before he would save us.
Epoisses
New member
I knew someone unskilled like AMR would jump on that. Now we need to understand that God also knows who will come to repentance (sheep) and will never come to repentance (goats). Calvinists will write off the goats as if they play no role in the hand of God and the life of Pharaoh shows the complete opposite. God leads the sheep and the goats to repentance where often they pass thru the same trials and tribulations. The one group is broken and the other is hardened. Pharaoh was a goat and God still actively took him thru the same steps towards repentance as the sheep which is the greatest rebuke of all to Calvinist philosophy.
God's Truth
New member
God hardened Pharaoh; which disproves Calvinism.
God's Truth
New member
He can't defend his beliefs that is why he puts me on ignore.
Epoisses
New member
Calvinists say that God hardened Pharaoh!
God's Truth
New member
They might say it but they don't admit that it disproves their doctrines.
They cannot answer the question.
The question is: If man cannot believe and obey God unless He saves them first---then why was Pharaoh starting to believe and obey? Why did God need to harden him if he couldn't even believe and obey unless first being saved?
Hi and Rom 5:13 and 14 refutes FREE WILL !!
Where is a verse if Free Will and then explain 1 Cor 2:14 !!
Free Will is not buying a Big Mac !!
dan p
Are you seriously so blind that you couldn't detect the sarcasm in my post?