It is demeaning to lessen Christ's coming to Paul and say he taught something else.
No it isn't!
Christ did entirely teach something complete correct, totally right and entirely different than what Paul taught which was also completely correct, totally right and entirely new (kept secret since the world began.)
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Romans 16:25 Now to Him who is able to establish you according to
my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to
the revelation of the mystery kept secret since the world began
I gave you scripture in the gospel.
Which ignores the point!
Jesus is the grace, and he is the love and the Spirit.
That's it!
You've been cornered so now's the time for you to stop debating and start closing your mind, closing your eyes and just start repeating whatever it is you want to believe over and over again until I leave and then you can tell yourself you won the debate.
BORING!!!
It is relevant because we are talking about the law and it doesn't say anything but death for murderers.
Are you reading my posts?
Remember Moses who murdered the Egyptian and then wrote every book in the bible that contains the Law of Moses!
Remember David who committed the capital crime of adultery and then had the woman's husband murdered to cover it up and then, after he repented, became a man after God's own heart and was called God's friend.
Sounds to me like the bible has quite a lot more to say about murderers that just death.
Moses accidentally killed someone.
No, he did not!
He attacked the man and he died as a result. Whether he started the attack with the intent to kill him or not (which he totally did), the result was murder and the law that we are talking about would have put him to death for it.
David was the only one who murdered.
You understand that this single sentence destroys your entire doctrine on this point. Why do you persist?
The criminal on the cross next to Christ was a murderer, or at least he was very likely so.
The word used to describe the criminals crucified with Christ is λῃστής. The literal translation is "robber" which is why some English translations use the word "thief" but the normal word for thief is κλέπτης and it doesn't mean the same thing. The latter is a simple thief, like a pick pocket or other petty thief which would not have warranted a death sentence of any sort and certainly not a crucifixion. The word λῃστής which is used in Matthew and Mark, denotes a violent form of robbery. It is used by Jesus in Luke 10:30...
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Luke 10:30 Then Jesus answered and said: “A certain
man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among
thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded
him, and departed, leaving
him half dead.
Further, Barabbas was called called a κλέπτης in John 18:40...
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John 18:40 Then they all cried again, saying, “Not this Man, but Barabbas!” Now Barabbas was a
robber.
And we know for a fact that Barabbas was more than a mere thief because Mark tells us...
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Mark 15:7 And there was one named Barabbas,
who was chained with his fellow rebels; they had committed murder in the rebellion.
And since Jesus took Barabbas' place on the cross, it seems likely that the three were connected with eachother and that the criminals on the cross were those "fellow rebels" which were chained with Barabbas.
Lastly, the biblical account itself tells us that even if it wasn't murder per se, whatever their offense was, it was worthy of death by the criminal's own confession...
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Luke 23:39 Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.”
40 But the other, answering, rebuked him, saying, “Do you not even fear God, seeing you are under the same condemnation?
41 And we indeed justly, for we receive the due reward of our deeds; but this Man has done nothing wrong.”
Note the Jesus did not rebuke the criminal and state the he was being punished unjustly which He could have easily done. What He did say, however, was that this man who just confessed himself guilty of a capital crime was to be with Him in Paradise that very day.
It is not the same as murder.
Is this an example of how you argue your doctrine from scripture?
Let's just read the passage, shall we?...
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Exodus 2:11 Now it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brethren and looked at their burdens. And he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his brethren.
12 So he looked this way and that way, and when he saw no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.
13 And when he went out the second day, behold, two Hebrew men were fighting, and he said to the one who did the wrong, “Why are you striking your companion?”
14 Then he said, “Who made you a prince and a judge over us? Do you intend to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?”
So Moses feared and said, “Surely this thing is known!”
15 When Pharaoh heard of this matter, he sought to kill Moses. But Moses fled from
[b]the face of Pharaoh and dwelt in the land of Midian; and he sat down by a well.
So we have Moses checking to see if anyone is looking and then kill someone and then hiding the body and then freaking out when he figures out that someone knows and then the authorities want to put him to death for it.
Sounds a whole lot like first degree, premeditated murder to me, GT!
By what line of reasoning are you calling it anything else?
David was guilty of murder.
14 Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Exactly and so I ask again, why do you persist with this doctrine?
Rahab couldn't continue to be a prostitute.
That isn't the point! The point is that she was guilty of a crime with the exact same punishment as murder! The law puts harlots to death upon the testimony of two or three witnesses just as it does murderers.
A person under the law who murders was put to death.
Yeah, so what?
While there is life there is hope! If a man repents before he is put to death, then God saves him. He is still put to death by the law but we aren't talking about what happens to his body but about what happens to his soul. That's not too hard to understand, right?
Leviticus 24:17 "'Anyone who takes the life of a human being is to be put to death.
Amen!
And that wasn't only true then, it ought to be true today! If it were, there'd be far fewer murderers, far fewer dead people and likely far fewer unbelievers to boot!
God's criminal justice system isn't about where someone's soul ends up. A human judge does not send anyone to Hell, only God does that. Criminal justice is about having a civil society in which it is the criminal that live in fear and not the law abiding citizen.
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Romans 13:3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same.
4 For he is God’s minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God’s minister, an avenger to
execute wrath on him who practices evil.
Clete