Quasar1011
New member
I'd choose door #3: that there was intelligent life in another dimension, posing as intelligent life in the physical universe. In other words, demons whose agenda is to mis-lead us.
ARCHIVE: Signals from space aliens or random chance?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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I'd choose door #3: that there was intelligent life in another dimension, posing as intelligent life in the physical universe. In other words, demons whose agenda is to mis-lead us.
theoretically speaking of course,
my answer is yes, I would presume that string of words to be an intelegible message from some life form or other. Of course hoaxes ruled out and conclusive evidence that the 'message' did indeed come from farther away than any message a human could have concocted would be necessary, but yes, that would indeed be something!
I dont buy the ball bit one bit though I must say.
the Marilyn comment was pretty good too.
my answer is yes, I would presume that string of words to be an intelegible message from some life form or other. Of course hoaxes ruled out and conclusive evidence that the 'message' did indeed come from farther away than any message a human could have concocted would be necessary, but yes, that would indeed be something!
I dont buy the ball bit one bit though I must say.
the Marilyn comment was pretty good too.
PyramidHead
Active member
well, for the small amount of time that we have been sending those signals up, it is vastly more likely to be intelligent life.
I just read read through this entire thread. It is a good one.
There seem to be 3 events in the foreground of the conversation and a 4th one that is mainly in the background. Those events are the "wow" message that SETI received and that Knight posted, Knight's hypothetical message, the random MM pixel picture, and the tennis ball going through a wall. To list them by probability (highest to lowest):
1) "wow" message: The only one we have seen happen and we say it was random
2) Knight's hypothetical message: could happen randomly but if it did happen we'd say it was a result of intelligence
3) MM picture: random
4) tennis ball: random
I may have 3rd and fourth switched but in a way I'm not sure that part is significant.
Just to focus on the 2 messages for now.....people say the first was random but if the second one occurred it would not be random. I assume it is because Knight's message has a much greater degree of complexity. Is that a good assumption? And is everything I said accurate so far?
If so, how complex must something be for intelligence to be assigned to it? Let's say we give a 3rd message that SETI receives. This one just says "earth". Would you say it was a result of randomness or intelligence?
There seem to be 3 events in the foreground of the conversation and a 4th one that is mainly in the background. Those events are the "wow" message that SETI received and that Knight posted, Knight's hypothetical message, the random MM pixel picture, and the tennis ball going through a wall. To list them by probability (highest to lowest):
1) "wow" message: The only one we have seen happen and we say it was random
2) Knight's hypothetical message: could happen randomly but if it did happen we'd say it was a result of intelligence
3) MM picture: random
4) tennis ball: random
I may have 3rd and fourth switched but in a way I'm not sure that part is significant.
Just to focus on the 2 messages for now.....people say the first was random but if the second one occurred it would not be random. I assume it is because Knight's message has a much greater degree of complexity. Is that a good assumption? And is everything I said accurate so far?
If so, how complex must something be for intelligence to be assigned to it? Let's say we give a 3rd message that SETI receives. This one just says "earth". Would you say it was a result of randomness or intelligence?
Since the length of time that SETI has been in operation is important to you, how long would SETI need to be searching for signals for you to say it was just a random occurrence?
Quasar1011
New member
Quite a few people are discussing randomness. What are the chances that humans from Earth are actually the most intelligent creatures in our universe? :think:
The same as the chances that a randomly picked grain of sand on a huge beach has the most advanced microbes on it of any grain on that beach.
The microbes might think they are hot stuff, but that is without them knowing what is on even one other grain of sand.
Quasar1011
New member
Interesting that you should pick sand, to compare to man's place among the stars. So did God.
Genesis 22:17a
I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore.
The difference is the Genesis reference to sand and stars was probably symbolic of large numbers. My reference to sand was to illustrate the amazing conceit that men have about declaring their own importance in the universe.
You do realize that with both sand and stars, if you take all the people that have existed on the earth in the past 5000 years, you are going to have less than 1% of 1% of 1% of the number of sand grains or stars? That's an error of over a million times too few.
PyramidHead
Active member
a very, very, very long time
NotSamHarris
New member
Random mutations AND Natural selection != purely random noise.
This discussion != evolution.
NotSamHarris
New member
Don't kid yourself. The setup is blatantly about whether a very unlikely event might happen as a result of randomness or whether it requires an intelligent agent.
Yeah, so? Like you said, evolutionists like to call evolution non-random. So why would we set a trap with no spring?
NotSamHarris
New member
Well, just thought that I'll save you some time and cut to the chase. Natural selection is not random. No biologist will tell you that.
I really don't think Knight had natural selection in mind when he started this thread. And I believe he even said that somewhere in this thread. Anyway, do you have an answer to the question in the opening post?
Pekkle
New member
We have repeatedly said that the odds there is intelligent life in the universe capable of sending a signal far surpass the odds that the signal was random.
You did. And several others have. But did he? I haven't seen it so I asked him. If he already has answered then he is free to ignore the question.