Hi Poly,
This is in reply to your post
#3782
Poly said:
But I wonder why it is that if God can motivate you to a heart of repentance, why wouldn't He motivate you to a heart of patience and kindness toward your wife and kids?
I didn't say He wouldn't motivate me to heart of patience and kindness toward my wife and kids. I believe He does exactly that. Is it your belief that God does NOT motivate a person's heart toward repentance?
Poly said:
If for His glory, could He not recieve the same glory by giving you a soft heart towards them to begin with?
It's not about God receiving glory. He doesn't need glory. It's about what God desires and plans. His plan was that I would need to cry out to Him to be a better father and husband, for the sake of my own personal growth, for the growth of my wife and kids, for my ability to minister to others, etc.
Poly said:
I guess what I'm asking is, since the end result of your exampe is that you now have a tender heart towards God and your family, why was the circumstance that brought it about needed for God to change your heart?
Because God planned it that way for His own good reasons, many of which are only understood by us through hindsight.
Poly said:
If God is sovereign as you view Him, He could have softened your heart to kindness toward your family with no negative circumstances and received the exact same glory but instead He decreed that it would involve having your temper flare and you speaking harsh words.
Again, this has nothing to do with God receiving a certain amount of glory. It has to do with His plans and the good He decrees. He planned the negative circumstances for good, all according to His decrees.
I wrote:
What God does in "response" (again, I view that as a linguistic accommodation) is work in my life, bringing about, according to His decrees, the circumstances that will bring that prayer to fruition. It might even involve yet another temper flare, but it will be different, because He is using it to change me.
Poly said:
Could He not change you without the temper flare?
Sure, if that were what He had planned.
Poly said:
Whatever He planned is exactly what would happen. He wouldn't change His plans.
Poly said:
... And if so, why then would He choose to go about negatively?
Only God knows with foresight, because He decreed it. We know only in hindsight, because we experienced it.
Poly wrote:
I can ask Him to teach me so that I can learn.
I replied:
How would He actually teach you? What would He do that you couldn't do yourself?
Poly wrote:
... And I can know that this is a real possibility because He says He desires to do so and He delights in us learning from Him.
I replied:
I agree completely. On my view it makes sense. I'm interested to know how it make sense on your view. What would God actually do that would not be confused with mere human effort?
Poly wrote:
... And knowing that when I thank Him, it's real out of what I have learned of Him in His word concerning His righteousness and His goodness.
I replied:
Why thank Him for what you've learned in His Word? Can't you do that without Him? What does He actually DO to help you learn His Word?
Poly said:
My biggest appreciation is that He's made it available to me to study, giving me a chance to understand who He is, what His desires are, what He expects from us and be encouraged while I'm in this world.
So, in actuality, He isn't teaching you, but merely giving you the opportunity to teach yourself. So I ask again, what are you asking Him to actually DO that He hasn't already done? What constitutes the "zesty prayer life" you and Bob Hill are talking about?
Poly said:
And I'm thankful that He's given me the human effort and faculties I need to study and learn.
Is that in answer to prayer? Did you ask Him for the human effort and faculties? How exactly did He give them to you? Does He give them only to people who pray for them? How is this the "zesty prayer life" you're talking about?
Poly said:
But there's no reason why He wouldn't also guide me, possibly bringing a passage to mind or a thought that might help in remembering certain passages either for myself or for somebody else who would profit from hearing it in a given circumstance.
How does He bring it to mind? How do you know it wasn't just you and not God bringing it to mind? What does this have to do with the "zesty prayer life" that Calvinism couldn't give you?
Poly said:
A group might get together to have a bible study and pray that God would help them understand and know Him better and He might do the same for them, bringing passages or thoughts to mind and the Holy Spirit could bring about comfort to their hearts so that they could reason together and be more receptive to the word and each other.
How exactly does He bring comfort to their hearts? And how do they know it isn't just they themselves working it up apart from God's intervention?
Poly said:
There is no doubt that He is capable of doing whatever I ask if it's "doable" ...
Do you ever pray for someone's salvation?
Poly said:
... And we now have the Holy Spirit which plays a huge role in prayer when we ask for comfort or peace.
How exactly does He give you comfort and peace?
Poly said:
... And when we have those things we are more able to focus on Him, having clearer minds to learn and respond in the right manner to Him and others.
But again, how is any of this part of a "zesty prayer life"?
Thanks in advance for considering my questions,
Trusting in the Rock,
Jim