ARCHIVE: Hello. (funniest "hello" thread ever!)

[Fnord5]

So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

In defense of gay marriage you stated.....We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?

That is not my belief, that was a Justification for it.

 

[Fnord5]

I'm surprised to see that set of beliefs together. Normally pro choice & pro homosexual marriage don't go with pro Iraq war, anti-affirmative action, and pro gun. Also, in a later post you say you want government to be as small as possible. What is the main reason you describe yourself as a "left winger"?

Clicked the wrong one on accident.

I am disappointed there is no "libertarian" or Anarchist option.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

wasted post #1.

wasted post #1.

That is not my belief, that was a Justification for it.

No duh. :duh:

Lets try again....

Ehh, not that I am trying to avoid owning up to faults in my argument, justification for what I believe in one case, can be contradictory to justification in another.
You asked for reasons why I supported it, and I gave them. You then asked me if because I supported same sex marriage, I supported the other marriages. They may overlap on some points, but may be contradictory in others. Such is the nature of all belief.

So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

In defense of gay marriage you stated.....

First, the US declaration if independence:
That means that EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless. (Felons and non citizens excluded)

We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?

 

[Fnord5]

No duh. :duh:

Lets try again....
So then... lets take one statement at a time and analyze it.

In defense of gay marriage you stated.....We now know beyond any doubt that you DO NOT BELIEVE that EVERYONE has (or should have) the same rights.

Will you admit that you need to (at very least) revise and or strike from the record your above defense of gay marriage?

No, I actually had that covered. Polygamy is a felony, as is pedophilia and incest. The bestiality issue was rendered moot because marriage is between two people.
And, felons are excluded.
Next

 

[Clete]

I abhor close minded people...

Okay mister "I majored in logic", in what way is the above quote not self-contradictory?

Also, I like to ask you to answer the following few questions...

Is there any such actual thing as a pervert?

If so, what does it mean to be a pervert and who gets to decide who is and is not a pervert?

Is it closed minded to call someone a pervert who either actively supports perversion or is in fact a pervert?

If the Declaration OF Independence said that being a homosexual was a perversion, would you agree with it?

Is it closed minded to call someone closed minded before figuring out (or even bothering to ask) what that person meant by what they said?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. Hint: The answer to the last question is, "Yes".

 

[Clete]

No, I actually had that covered. Polygamy is a felony, as is pedophilia and incest. The bestiality issue was rendered moot because marriage is between two people.
And, felons are excluded.
Next

FYI

Homosexuality was a felony, in fact it was a capital crime, when the Declaration of Independence was written.

 

[Fnord5]

FYI

Homosexuality was a felony, in fact it was a capital crime, when the Declaration of Independence was written.

Operative word: was.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

No, I actually had that covered. Polygamy is a felony, as is pedophilia and incest. The bestiality issue was rendered moot because marriage is between two people.
And, felons are excluded.
Next

You really are not that bright are you?

Currently gay marriage isn't legal! Yet you support it. In other words, you think the current laws should be over-turned to allow gay marriage, I therefore brought up OTHER EXAMPLES of illegal marital unions to see if your defense for gay marriage would hold up to logical scrutiny. You see, one could give the exact same defense for incestual or other illegal unions using your defense for gay marriage.


YES or NO? Do you believe that in regard to marriage EVERYONE should have the same rights, regardless?

My advice for you.... don't come to a gun fight with a rubber knife.

 

[Fnord5]

Okay mister "I majored in logic", in what way is the above quote not self-contradictory?

Stating that I dislike close minded people is not contradictory, Although I may dislike them, I still take into consideration what they say.

Is there any such actual thing as a pervert?

If so, what does it mean to be a pervert and who gets to decide who is and is not a pervert?

Is it closed minded to call someone a pervert who either actively supports perversion or is in fact a pervert?

Yes.
A pervert is someone who goes against social mores, which are defined by the society.
I would say that if defining that person as a pervert, no it is not. If done in an attempt to insult or marginalize them, yes, it is.

If the Declaration OF Independence said that being a homosexual was a perversion, would you agree with it?

I never said that homosexuality was not a perversion, just that they should be afforded the same rights as traditional marriage.

Is it closed minded to call someone closed minded before figuring out (or even bothering to ask) what that person meant by what they said?

Resting in Him,
Clete

P.S. Hint: The answer to the last question is, "Yes".

Ahh, but you see, I made that statement before anyone had said anything to me. Not really all that applicable to this situation.
A for effort though. :thumb:

 

[Fnord5]

Currently gay marriage isn't legal!

It is not legislated one way or the other. The federal government has not made any laws regarding same sex marriage.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[Nathon Detroit]

It is not legislated one way or the other. The federal government has not made any laws regarding same sex marriage.

Maybe you should take your own advice.

:rotfl:

Just answer the question you moron.

YES or NO? Do you believe that in regard to marriage EVERYONE should have the same rights, regardless?

 

[Fnord5]

:rotfl:

Just answer the question you moron.

YES or NO? Do you believe that in regard to marriage EVERYONE should have the same rights, regardless?

Name calling? Nice.


Yes.

Felons and non citizens excluded.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Name calling? Nice.

If the shoe fits...

Yes.

Felons and non citizens excluded.

So non-citizens don't have a right to life?

 

[Minerva]

Pedophilia, again, a no brainer. Children are incapable of making rational decisions until after puberty is complete. Legally, no person under the age of 18(with rare exception) are able to enter into any binding contract. This includes marriage. The exceptions to this are the Delayed Entry program for the military, where a 17 year old can sign a contract that is binding to enter the military upon turning 18 and finishing school. Attending school is another contract that is binding to a minor, although that is not one signed by them, but legislated.

FIrst, let me make clear, not that one should feel compelled to do so, that I of course do not support any type of pedophilia. Disclaimer made.....since when are children incapable of making a rational decision until puberty is complete? I find that statement rather ignorant. Maybe you were too hasty in your explanation and overlooked the fact, but children are quite capable of making rational decisions at very young ages, therefore, if that is your basis for not supporting this sort of thing, then you might want to rethink this.

 

[Fnord5]

So non-citizens don't have a right to life?

Not a discussion about life, or right to have it.

 

[Fnord5]

FIrst, let me make clear, not that one should feel compelled to do so, that I of course do not support any type of pedophilia. Disclaimer made.....since when are children incapable of making a rational decision until puberty is complete? I find that statement rather ignorant. Maybe you were too hasty in your explanation and overlooked the fact, but children are quite capable of making rational decisions at very young ages, therefore, if that is your basis for not supporting this sort of thing, then you might want to rethink this.

You may want to read up on your psychology.
Decisions made by children, are done so without the ability to judge future consequences of those decisions. On a rudimentary level, yes they can understand that if they touch a hot stove, it will result in pain. But, they are unable to grasp more abstract situations and consequences.

 

[One Eyed Jack]

Not a discussion about life, or right to have it.

You're the one who brought up the inalienable rights mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, so answer the question. Do non-citizens have an inalienable right to life -- yes or no?

 

[Nathon Detroit]

Name calling? Nice.

Sometimes there is no other choice.

Fnord5, being a polygamist is not a felony, just as being a homosexual is not a felony. Yet, for both polygamists and homosexuals marriage is not currently legal in most states.

Similarly there are people in this country that support incestual relationships. It isn't a felony to advocate incestual relationships. There are people who think the laws against incestual relationships (and marriages) should be overturned just as you believe that homosexual marriages should be made legal. Based on your defense - "EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless." you have no standing to tell them otherwise.

 

[Fnord5]

Sometimes there is no other choice.

Fnord5, being a polygamist is not a felony, just as being a homosexual is not a felony. Yet, for both polygamists and homosexuals marriage is not currently legal in most states.

Similarly there are people in this country that support incestual relationships. It isn't a felony to advocate incestual relationships. There are people who think the laws against incestual relationships (and marriages) should be overturned just as you believe that homosexual marriages should be made legal. Based on your defense - "EVERYONE has the same rights, regardless." you have no standing to tell them otherwise.

Actually, polygamy is a felony. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-03-polygamy_x.htm
Yes, arguing for the overturning of incest laws is not illegal, but you cannot compare the two situations.

Same sex marriage is not a crime, incest and polygamy are. Same sex marriage has neither been formally legalized, or outlawed.

 

[Minerva]

You may want to read up on your psychology.
Decisions made by children, are done so without the ability to judge future consequences of those decisions. On a rudimentary level, yes they can understand that if they touch a hot stove, it will result in pain. But, they are unable to grasp more abstract situations and consequences.

First....Do you even have children? I have 4 and I watch them make rational decisions every day....even complex ones.(Then again I am the proud parent of some very intelligent children)

Second.....I am fully "read up" on my psychology.

Third.....Check your dictionary for the definition of the word "rational" then, pay close attention to your own words here....

"Children are incapable of making rational decisions until after puberty is complete"

You statement is incorrect. It is only your opinion that a child in unable to grasp an abstract situation and the resulting consequences.