ARCHIVE: Bob Enyart has already lost the debate ...
- Thread starter Hilston
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taoist
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Nineveh
Woeful ignorance (of the nature of absolutes)
Deliberate deception (on the complex nature of his God)
And the debate's not over. I've replied to his challenge. We'll see if he takes the bait. But honestly, it's like dealing with an unruly student in the back of the class. What do you do with a college dropout who thinks he knows more about physics than Hawkings?
It's mine as well, Ninevah. Bmyers cited the two main motifs apparent in Enyart's writing. Here's evidence.
Woeful ignorance (of the nature of absolutes)
Deliberate deception (on the complex nature of his God)
And the debate's not over. I've replied to his challenge. We'll see if he takes the bait. But honestly, it's like dealing with an unruly student in the back of the class. What do you do with a college dropout who thinks he knows more about physics than Hawkings?
Taoist,
Congratulations on your sound thrashing of Bob.
His sniping against you was predictable .. remember he is in this to make a $.. you on the other hand are merely trying to provide honest (well researched I might add) opinion..
I wonder who Jesus would be more impressed with if he was still around ?
Congratulations on your sound thrashing of Bob.
His sniping against you was predictable .. remember he is in this to make a $.. you on the other hand are merely trying to provide honest (well researched I might add) opinion..
I wonder who Jesus would be more impressed with if he was still around ?
Taoist,
Even as an atheist I cannot deny my fascination with Jesus. I have the feeling he was a “Ghandi” of his time.. preaching non-violent resistance to the Romans.
For whatever reason you care to put it down to you cannot deny he was the most famous human ever.
I worry about a lot of the spin doctoring by Paul to make Christianity acceptable to the Roman and Greek world but it seems irrefutable that Jesus was a remarkable man.
By the same token I would have like to have met Buddha, Confucius and several hundred other characters from history.
Even as an atheist I cannot deny my fascination with Jesus. I have the feeling he was a “Ghandi” of his time.. preaching non-violent resistance to the Romans.
For whatever reason you care to put it down to you cannot deny he was the most famous human ever.
I worry about a lot of the spin doctoring by Paul to make Christianity acceptable to the Roman and Greek world but it seems irrefutable that Jesus was a remarkable man.
By the same token I would have like to have met Buddha, Confucius and several hundred other characters from history.
taoist
New member
Ya know, Aussie,
I really wonder how non-violent he was. There's that thing with Peter slicing off an ear with a sword. Where'd the sword come from? The entire holy land was in a state of constant rebellion at the time.
Read everything you can find about the Council of Nicea, it was a bloodbath. I'll go look for some links. In any case, I've no confidence at all in the texts eventually accepted. The dissidents were dead. The ones left to vote had to have known what the likely outcome would be if they dissented as well. The canonical gospels in particular are suspect if for no other reason than because they had to pass the censors of pagan Rome.
Constantine didn't become a christian himself until the end of his life. Before that, he was just holding on to Jesus as his personal war god. And look what he did to christianity because of his native religion. He moved the Jewish sabbath to the pagan Sun-day! Doh!
I find it remarkable that the vast majority of the epistles accepted into the canon at the roman council were written by Paul, the roman. I'm not a fan of Paul.
I really wonder how non-violent he was. There's that thing with Peter slicing off an ear with a sword. Where'd the sword come from? The entire holy land was in a state of constant rebellion at the time.
Read everything you can find about the Council of Nicea, it was a bloodbath. I'll go look for some links. In any case, I've no confidence at all in the texts eventually accepted. The dissidents were dead. The ones left to vote had to have known what the likely outcome would be if they dissented as well. The canonical gospels in particular are suspect if for no other reason than because they had to pass the censors of pagan Rome.
Constantine didn't become a christian himself until the end of his life. Before that, he was just holding on to Jesus as his personal war god. And look what he did to christianity because of his native religion. He moved the Jewish sabbath to the pagan Sun-day! Doh!
I find it remarkable that the vast majority of the epistles accepted into the canon at the roman council were written by Paul, the roman. I'm not a fan of Paul.
taoist
New member
Oh, and by the way, Aussie,
You do realize that Gandhi took his non-violent philosophy from the Jainists, don't you? The Jainists sprang up as a popular alternative to a Buddhism that had become more and more entrenched as an elite discipline of the monasteries. Buddha was known, much like Jesus, for the topical nature of his talks. He related to the common folk. As his religion became more and more an academic discipline after his death, it was eventually marginalized in India by the more emotionally charged practices of Hinduism. The Jainists took the lesson and are still a popular and political force in India. Buddhism left for greener pastures in the far east.
Machine's telling me I've got to install a Java update, back in a bit.
Jesse
You do realize that Gandhi took his non-violent philosophy from the Jainists, don't you? The Jainists sprang up as a popular alternative to a Buddhism that had become more and more entrenched as an elite discipline of the monasteries. Buddha was known, much like Jesus, for the topical nature of his talks. He related to the common folk. As his religion became more and more an academic discipline after his death, it was eventually marginalized in India by the more emotionally charged practices of Hinduism. The Jainists took the lesson and are still a popular and political force in India. Buddhism left for greener pastures in the far east.
Machine's telling me I've got to install a Java update, back in a bit.
Jesse
Jesse,
It’s hard to read between the lines and Pauls spin but I get the impression Jesus was personally a non-violent type.
He and His movement were however particularly anti-Roman.. not uncommon in Judea.. they were always a pain in the rear end to the Romans.
He was executed in a way that the Romans particularly reserved for Dissidents, Rebels and Terrorists.. designed to send a message to the rest of the population.
Does this implies that Jesus was violent.. I don’t think so. It implies that his group could resort to violence and as a growing sect that was anti-Roman it was not to be tolerated.
The Jesus Church survived in Jerusalem but was part of the Judean rebellions eventually crushed by Vespasian. The original church was anti-Roman and admonished Paul several times for softening their message and making it less of a Jewish religion. When the Romans destroyed the Jesus Church in Jerusalem it gave Paul carte blanche to mould the religion to his liking.
I didn’t like Paul much either but you cannot dispute his talent and effectiveness !
It’s hard to read between the lines and Pauls spin but I get the impression Jesus was personally a non-violent type.
He and His movement were however particularly anti-Roman.. not uncommon in Judea.. they were always a pain in the rear end to the Romans.
He was executed in a way that the Romans particularly reserved for Dissidents, Rebels and Terrorists.. designed to send a message to the rest of the population.
Does this implies that Jesus was violent.. I don’t think so. It implies that his group could resort to violence and as a growing sect that was anti-Roman it was not to be tolerated.
The Jesus Church survived in Jerusalem but was part of the Judean rebellions eventually crushed by Vespasian. The original church was anti-Roman and admonished Paul several times for softening their message and making it less of a Jewish religion. When the Romans destroyed the Jesus Church in Jerusalem it gave Paul carte blanche to mould the religion to his liking.
I didn’t like Paul much either but you cannot dispute his talent and effectiveness !
Just like to take a look at Bob’s neat little end conclusions:
We don’t know that at all. Further more the same can be said for God.. he could not have always existed or could not have made himself.
The basic functions of life follow the laws of physics ALWAYS. Pleas name me ONE that doesn’t. Why does complexity imply a God anyway ?
We don’t know that at all. Further more the same can be said for God.. he could not have always existed or could not have made himself.
The basic functions of life follow the laws of physics ALWAYS. Pleas name me ONE that doesn’t. Why does complexity imply a God anyway ?
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
Jim, in case you wondered, here is where our discussion last ended. This was my last response to you.
Post 484
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=302284#post302284
Your last response to me was
Post 451
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=300112#post300112
and since then I also posted
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=305076#post305076
Oh, and did I mention Ps 14.1 yet?
Post 484
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=302284#post302284
Your last response to me was
Post 451
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=300112#post300112
and since then I also posted
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=305076#post305076
Oh, and did I mention Ps 14.1 yet?
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
Wow, I just did a search for my handle to see what I might have been missing on the boards, and look at what I found Jim saying to Knight about me. Jim (Hilston) does not have a chip on his shoulder, it’s more like mount Rushmore.
Especially noteworthy is my observation that Hilston does indeed respond too indepth, only not quite as he put it, he rips apart the meaning conveyed by cutting up your precept upon precept into oblivion. I think it is rather convenient for him to suddenly disappear, and also rude to drop out of his own thread with ongoing discussions without even saying why. I guess if you are not well suited up with truth and understanding, critical confrontation can be unpleasant. I hope Hilston will get better soon.
JoyfulRook
New member
Taoist, Aussie Thinker, and Hilston. You all make me Sick. :vomit:
Hilston's a Calvinist, Clete. That's what makes DH sick. And it makes me sick, as well. Christine appears to be one, as well. She's definitely not an Open Theist.
Is this real blood you drink or just a symbolic blood? :think:
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