ARCHIVE: Bob Enyart has already lost the debate ...
- Thread starter Hilston
- Start date
- Status
coffeeman
New member
Are you inferring Nazis were Christians??? That's incredible...many Christians lost their lives during the Holocaust...you should know this more than most because Christians in Amsterdam hid many Jews. Hitler was a godless occultist...he thought Germans were the golden race far more advanced than the other races...hmmm sounds evolutionary doesn't it.
Have you ever wondered how many Christians died saving your country from the Nazis?
Is German your national language attention? .......no? that's okay....your welcome!
Saint is just a name for Christian...the word has been twisted through the years...and true not all christians appear much different than anyone else. We should look at the one who invites everyone to become a Christian and not the Christians we are called Saints because of what God has done not what we do.
Interesting that the Swastika is an occult symbol just reversed ...he wanted to be worshipped and was heavy into astrolgy which is forbidden by the Bible...
Last edited:
attention
New member
No. I am inferring that if all those so-called Christians were realy 'Saint-like', they would have known a way to stop Hitler and the nazi's from performing so much cruelty.
They obviously didn't except for a small monority, some even agreed with what the nazi's did. The Catholic church for instance had not much problems with the nazi regime.
This answers the question that I had asked, which was whether or not "sainthood" could be judged in the case of another. Assuming I understand your response correctly, it seems to be "no" - at least from the standpoint of whether or not you can definitively judge the "sainthood" of another. I do understand, of course, that you're also saying that at some point, based on a given individual's behavior, that you yourself you not treat that person as if they were a "saint" (i.e., a fellow believer).
It seems, though, that quite a few people here DO seem willing to make that judgement, based solely on what other people are writing in response to questions presented in this forum. Based on the above, I am assuming that you would agree that this is unwarranted?
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
bmeyer - You said
And therein you see the error of your slant. You would like to hold against us righteous who condemn the wicked, that our judgments are somewhat erroneous because we can not know for certain if someone is saved or not, we might be good guessers and sometimes very bad guessers, but we are acting in a way that discredits Christianity, not helps it.
Correct me if that is not what you are basically saying.
So I say, you are simply pointing out human imperfection. It is even possible that you could encounter someone who is supposed to be a close family member of your own family, and be mistaken about who they are. It is “possible”. It is possible that if you were asked for the answer, what is one plus one, you might get it wrong, it is “possible”, because we are human and we are prone to error.
Right, we are human and we are prone to error. But that is hardly the issue, if you see someone headed towards destruction, and you don’t do something to help them because after all, you can not be absolutely positive that they are headed for destruction, so what do you do? Do you attempt to redeem the time and save (or assist) as many people as you can, to lead them to know the Lord or to know Him better, or do you just say, well I could be wrong and not proceed based on the chance that what you think to be true, simply is not.
Your right, we are not God, we can not “perfectly” know every thought and see right to a person’s heart, but God teaches us Christians the nature of men and their heart and their actions and their words and their life’s witness and the relationship between them, He teaches us to judge people according to their words and their life, and to do so according to absolute right and wrong. But you would be wrong for pretending that such an observation should stop believers like myself from acting upon the belief that someone is or is not saved.
And don’t act like you don’t do the very same sort of thing in judging the inner man of other people. If you date, you size up a person to see if they are your type or not, you check their level of honest, their intelligence and sense of humor, etc., same with many interpersonal relationships especially where trust and respect are important to you, in fact, in greater and mostly lesser ways, you probably form dozens or even hundreds of discrete personal judgments about other people every day. So don’t worry, be happy, and if your not saved and many Christians can tell, that’s life, get used to it!
There is a difference between redeeming the time and absolutes. You should be able to ask anyone on this forum who is like myself quite willing to judge against another person, even to judge that they need to get saved, if their judgment is absolute or is it subject to error.
And therein you see the error of your slant. You would like to hold against us righteous who condemn the wicked, that our judgments are somewhat erroneous because we can not know for certain if someone is saved or not, we might be good guessers and sometimes very bad guessers, but we are acting in a way that discredits Christianity, not helps it.
Correct me if that is not what you are basically saying.
So I say, you are simply pointing out human imperfection. It is even possible that you could encounter someone who is supposed to be a close family member of your own family, and be mistaken about who they are. It is “possible”. It is possible that if you were asked for the answer, what is one plus one, you might get it wrong, it is “possible”, because we are human and we are prone to error.
Right, we are human and we are prone to error. But that is hardly the issue, if you see someone headed towards destruction, and you don’t do something to help them because after all, you can not be absolutely positive that they are headed for destruction, so what do you do? Do you attempt to redeem the time and save (or assist) as many people as you can, to lead them to know the Lord or to know Him better, or do you just say, well I could be wrong and not proceed based on the chance that what you think to be true, simply is not.
Your right, we are not God, we can not “perfectly” know every thought and see right to a person’s heart, but God teaches us Christians the nature of men and their heart and their actions and their words and their life’s witness and the relationship between them, He teaches us to judge people according to their words and their life, and to do so according to absolute right and wrong. But you would be wrong for pretending that such an observation should stop believers like myself from acting upon the belief that someone is or is not saved.
And don’t act like you don’t do the very same sort of thing in judging the inner man of other people. If you date, you size up a person to see if they are your type or not, you check their level of honest, their intelligence and sense of humor, etc., same with many interpersonal relationships especially where trust and respect are important to you, in fact, in greater and mostly lesser ways, you probably form dozens or even hundreds of discrete personal judgments about other people every day. So don’t worry, be happy, and if your not saved and many Christians can tell, that’s life, get used to it!
Last edited:
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
bmeyers – You do have a point or something productive to contribute :idea: don’t you? A little suitable helpful information would be useful already, while at the same time, such clarification could not be viewed as antagonistic or nearly useless.
I was asking of you so that I would understand, and I was forthright with clarifying my reasoning for my position to help you understand where I am coming from, so I think it is you who presumes “far too much regarding where I am coming from”.
Since you are not siding with, but apparently against those of us who are willing to (redemptively) judge another’s salvation/damnation prior to judgment day, you could explain yourself instead of saying,
(Poster, speak your mind!) :sozo2: (Write your mind,,,) :doh:
(Post what you wanted to say.)
__________________ ^
__________________ :crackup: Just joking about you ranting. That little energized angry emoticon is my favorite, he has to stop just long enough to take two deep breaths before he lays back into it, that is so funny. (chuckles)
I was asking of you so that I would understand, and I was forthright with clarifying my reasoning for my position to help you understand where I am coming from, so I think it is you who presumes “far too much regarding where I am coming from”.
Since you are not siding with, but apparently against those of us who are willing to (redemptively) judge another’s salvation/damnation prior to judgment day, you could explain yourself instead of saying,
Which was in response to me saying to you
I asked for correction, please correct me since you say I am wrong. This is real life, it is not :nono: a game of 20 questions, time is precious to us all, ,,, so please then, ,,, if that is not where you are coming from and you already started to make your point, ,,, do us all a favor and explain where you are coming from and finish your point.
(Poster, speak your mind!) :sozo2: (Write your mind,,,) :doh:
(Post what you wanted to say.) __________________ ^
__________________ :crackup: Just joking about you ranting. That little energized angry emoticon is my favorite, he has to stop just long enough to take two deep breaths before he lays back into it, that is so funny. (chuckles)
Hilston writes:
Hilston writes:
Believers have had over 2000 years to find sophistical replies to atheists, hence the frequent quotations from Proverbs. But these sayings were made up by believers desperate to ward off the criticisms of atheists which were obviously as strong then as now.
I might just as well coin my own phrase: "The fool hath said in his heart that there is a God" (wicked atheist Ch. 1.1).
Cannot you allow us to be atheists? If we don't believe , then we don't believe. Why not leave it like that? At least I do you ther courtesy of agreeing that you yourself do believe.
Hilston writes:
Believers have had over 2000 years to find sophistical replies to atheists, hence the frequent quotations from Proverbs. But these sayings were made up by believers desperate to ward off the criticisms of atheists which were obviously as strong then as now.
I might just as well coin my own phrase: "The fool hath said in his heart that there is a God" (wicked atheist Ch. 1.1).
Cannot you allow us to be atheists? If we don't believe , then we don't believe. Why not leave it like that? At least I do you ther courtesy of agreeing that you yourself do believe.
Berean Todd
New member
Re: Hilston writes:
Re: Hilston writes:
And when your book of quotes lasts thousands of years, is shown to be wholly archaeologically and historically accurate. When your book is shown through witness, contemporary testimony, history and archaeoloogy to be above reproach; maybe when all of that happens we will give "your verse" some weight. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you though.
Uh, who came to whose site looking for debate? If you come to a Christian site, expect Christian arguments.
Re: Hilston writes:
And when your book of quotes lasts thousands of years, is shown to be wholly archaeologically and historically accurate. When your book is shown through witness, contemporary testimony, history and archaeoloogy to be above reproach; maybe when all of that happens we will give "your verse" some weight. I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you though.
Uh, who came to whose site looking for debate? If you come to a Christian site, expect Christian arguments.
Re: Re: Hilston writes:
Re: Re: Hilston writes:
So are you saying then that Christian arguments are different from rational arguments?
As for Bible lasting thousands of years, so have many other non Judaeo-Christian writings, including those of Buddhism. Also If the Book of Morman could have been written so recently, why not one by myself. You never know, it might catch on. "The Book of Reason and Common Sense" by "Wicked Atheist
Re: Re: Hilston writes:
So are you saying then that Christian arguments are different from rational arguments?
As for Bible lasting thousands of years, so have many other non Judaeo-Christian writings, including those of Buddhism. Also If the Book of Morman could have been written so recently, why not one by myself. You never know, it might catch on. "The Book of Reason and Common Sense" by "Wicked Atheist
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
Wicked atheist, I pretty much agree with you in that you do believe there is no God. Even God admits that people believe such a thing, oh, please excuse me, I am 1Way, a local resident Christian, welcome to the forum.
My brother in the Lord Jim thinks that atheists do not and cannot exist because of an interpretational conflict that he has thus far not extricated himself from. The bible teaches that all men know of God and that this knowledge is somewhat profound in one sense, and in another sense, this knowledge is vague enough for men to become deluded into believing that God does not even exist. As a Christian, I affirm that you have a right to oppose God and to go to hell forever. But also, as a Christian, I reserve the right to try to help people stop themselves from hurting themselves and others, I am of the opinion that death and destruction are bad things, but then again, I’m just being reasonable. So I wont stop ignoring the fight to save lives, because I care for the lost and the damned that they might be saved from the most horrible ends imaginable, being utterly without love and all things right and good. I try to help people because the truth and the life and the way is worth it, it’s even worth all the world’s opposition if necessary.
Would you try to prevent a police officer from stopping crime, would you deter the fireman from putting out the fire, would you stop the doctor from helping the sick and the broken heal? Even if they were trying to help you and yours?
So, what is your best shot at why you don’t believe in the living God of the Bible, if you go to hell forever, what will be the nail that sealed the coffin of your eternal damnation?
My brother in the Lord Jim thinks that atheists do not and cannot exist because of an interpretational conflict that he has thus far not extricated himself from. The bible teaches that all men know of God and that this knowledge is somewhat profound in one sense, and in another sense, this knowledge is vague enough for men to become deluded into believing that God does not even exist. As a Christian, I affirm that you have a right to oppose God and to go to hell forever. But also, as a Christian, I reserve the right to try to help people stop themselves from hurting themselves and others, I am of the opinion that death and destruction are bad things, but then again, I’m just being reasonable. So I wont stop ignoring the fight to save lives, because I care for the lost and the damned that they might be saved from the most horrible ends imaginable, being utterly without love and all things right and good. I try to help people because the truth and the life and the way is worth it, it’s even worth all the world’s opposition if necessary.
Would you try to prevent a police officer from stopping crime, would you deter the fireman from putting out the fire, would you stop the doctor from helping the sick and the broken heal? Even if they were trying to help you and yours?
So, what is your best shot at why you don’t believe in the living God of the Bible, if you go to hell forever, what will be the nail that sealed the coffin of your eternal damnation?
Last edited:
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
bmeyers – I’m still waiting to hear your response to my last post to you.
wicked atheist - I’m still waiting to hear your response to my last post to you.
Yorzhik - Who are you talking too, ,,, who are you, ,,, what are you talking about? Perhaps next time you post, you might decide to communicate who you are speaking to and about what, that sort of puts the “communication” back into “communication”, you see.
Why are people so :shocked: when it comes to responding to direct communications. People can be so shallow and :chicken: and :kookoo:
I guess when some are exposed for their error, they must be :bang: and
But they should know that the truth can transform :scotty: your life into :cloud9: or, if you reject the truth that would otherwise set you free, you are :grave: and probably :car: yourself and others :hammer:
wicked atheist - I’m still waiting to hear your response to my last post to you.
Yorzhik - Who are you talking too, ,,, who are you, ,,, what are you talking about? Perhaps next time you post, you might decide to communicate who you are speaking to and about what, that sort of puts the “communication” back into “communication”, you see.
Why are people so :shocked: when it comes to responding to direct communications.
People can be so shallow and :chicken: and :kookoo:I guess when some are exposed for their error, they must be :bang: and
But they should know that the truth can transform :scotty: your life into :cloud9: or, if you reject the truth that would otherwise set you free, you are :grave: and probably :car: yourself and others :hammer:
1Way did you chase Hilston away???
That is correct. You are.
Why are people so :shocked: when it comes to responding to direct communications.
I guess when some are exposed for their error, they must be :bang: and
If it makes you feel better to believe this, then please be my guest.
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
Good question Sir Knight
Jim (Hilston), where are you?
Last I heard, he would be gone until the next weekend or so. I hope he is all right, and I hope he will stop chopping up my thoughts, much like I hope he will stop chopping up God’s ideas to suit his preconceptions.
Jim (formerly Hilston, go figure), he seems like a strong believer in God and gets energized about serious bible study, ,,, but,,, this problem of digging himself into a hole by disregarding sufficient attention and understanding of the wider context, can make discussing basic bible issues with him a real sad chore.
I’m currently trying to come up with a catchy phrase and pithy proverb for the millions and millions who are profoundly handicapped both biblically and intellectually by neglecting the wider context, in college English Lit., they taught us to discover the wider context by doing a “rhetorical survey”, i.e. find out who wrote what to whom and why etc. That was one of the few teachings in collage that has proved itself to be of good use.
Jim (Hilston), where are you?
Last I heard, he would be gone until the next weekend or so. I hope he is all right, and I hope he will stop chopping up my thoughts, much like I hope he will stop chopping up God’s ideas to suit his preconceptions.
Jim (formerly Hilston, go figure), he seems like a strong believer in God and gets energized about serious bible study, ,,, but,,, this problem of digging himself into a hole by disregarding sufficient attention and understanding of the wider context, can make discussing basic bible issues with him a real sad chore.
I’m currently trying to come up with a catchy phrase and pithy proverb for the millions and millions who are profoundly handicapped both biblically and intellectually by neglecting the wider context, in college English Lit., they taught us to discover the wider context by doing a “rhetorical survey”, i.e. find out who wrote what to whom and why etc. That was one of the few teachings in collage that has proved itself to be of good use.
1Way
+OL remote satellite affiliate
bmeyers – Either deal with what has plainly been laid before you
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=307861#post307861 ,
or slink away and remain the insincere coward that you have been.
You were going to actually make a point, weren't you?
http://www.theologyonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=307861#post307861 ,
or slink away and remain the insincere coward that you have been.
You were going to actually make a point, weren't you?
- Status