Anyone ready a 2nd look at Sodom and G?
- Thread starter Ps82
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In order to begin with a thread which will permeate my reasoning let me just say: I believe God created an image so he could appear within his creation and use it in the Old and New Testaments.
This one image is first mentioned in Gen. 1:26-27 and is called "our image."One image to represent the ONE God. For God that works...
even though God acknowledges the magnitude of his own collective essence. In Fact, the first name listed for God in scripture is Elohim/Elohiym. Elohiym [sp?] is a collective noun, which is used in sentences to represent a plurality belonging to one group.
Now, I don't think God is a group of gods ... I believe He is an all encompassing spirit... but any God who is infinite, omni-present, and full of the essence of life and the power to create is too big for a singular definition.
Knowing that he created only ONE image to represent ALL of his greatness has led me to my opinions regarding Genesis 18.
PARAPHRASED: Check for your self.
Gen. 18:1 The LORD shows up to Abram. Abram looked up and saw three men who stood by him. He immediately ran to them and said, "My Lord, pass not away."
Did you notice Abram only mentioned the name "My Lord."
Do you know who Abram's Lord was?
Exodus 6:3 And I [God] appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. I have also established my covenant with them. IOW, it was to Moses, who wrote the first five books of the law, to which God revealed his special name. God Almighty chose the name YHWH and KJE translates it as The LORD ... but it was the same one God. Moses was able to use THAT NAME correctly to convey truth.
Now, who was YHWH to Abram? It has to do with the covenant and promise made to Abraham part of which is this:
Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of The LORD/YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, "Fear not, Abram: I AM thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Abraham certainly knew who His LORD was. He had seen him! He was The WORD of God. Before Jesus the Christ came into the world Abraham knew of the days of his Lord and was glad of it. Even before Abraham was there was "I Am."
Now, Abram/Abraham never address the three lords with any other name other than "My Lord." He didn't ask who the other two were with his Lord ... He did not acknowledge the as Michael or Gabriel nor ever spoke of them by any other name ... only my Lord, my lords. The three who appeared were to him as if they were the one and only Lord who had appeared to him. He bowed to the ground before all three and treated them all equally.
Well, that made sense to me since I think the ONE God created ONE image to represent himself as the one God, but God is not limited to manifesting his presence as one individual. Even if 25 had shown up ... it wouldn't have mattered to Abram because he saw before him his Lord, his shield and his exceeding great reward.
With man this duplication of self is impossible ... except maybe through AI. Even so all the image created by AI would not be alive even though they looked like it. But these three were alive enough to eat a meal and exhibit a freewill.
Conclusion of the Lord who appeared to Abraham is this:
God appeared unto Abram as three duplicates of the one image of the one God. Now, this conclusion will lead to an interesting take on who went into Sodom and Gomorrah and when.
I hope someone is interested to see what really happened there.
This one image is first mentioned in Gen. 1:26-27 and is called "our image."One image to represent the ONE God. For God that works...
even though God acknowledges the magnitude of his own collective essence. In Fact, the first name listed for God in scripture is Elohim/Elohiym. Elohiym [sp?] is a collective noun, which is used in sentences to represent a plurality belonging to one group.
Now, I don't think God is a group of gods ... I believe He is an all encompassing spirit... but any God who is infinite, omni-present, and full of the essence of life and the power to create is too big for a singular definition.
Knowing that he created only ONE image to represent ALL of his greatness has led me to my opinions regarding Genesis 18.
PARAPHRASED: Check for your self.
Gen. 18:1 The LORD shows up to Abram. Abram looked up and saw three men who stood by him. He immediately ran to them and said, "My Lord, pass not away."
Did you notice Abram only mentioned the name "My Lord."
Do you know who Abram's Lord was?
Exodus 6:3 And I [God] appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them. I have also established my covenant with them. IOW, it was to Moses, who wrote the first five books of the law, to which God revealed his special name. God Almighty chose the name YHWH and KJE translates it as The LORD ... but it was the same one God. Moses was able to use THAT NAME correctly to convey truth.
Now, who was YHWH to Abram? It has to do with the covenant and promise made to Abraham part of which is this:
Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of The LORD/YHWH came unto Abram in a vision, saying, "Fear not, Abram: I AM thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
Abraham certainly knew who His LORD was. He had seen him! He was The WORD of God. Before Jesus the Christ came into the world Abraham knew of the days of his Lord and was glad of it. Even before Abraham was there was "I Am."
Now, Abram/Abraham never address the three lords with any other name other than "My Lord." He didn't ask who the other two were with his Lord ... He did not acknowledge the as Michael or Gabriel nor ever spoke of them by any other name ... only my Lord, my lords. The three who appeared were to him as if they were the one and only Lord who had appeared to him. He bowed to the ground before all three and treated them all equally.
Well, that made sense to me since I think the ONE God created ONE image to represent himself as the one God, but God is not limited to manifesting his presence as one individual. Even if 25 had shown up ... it wouldn't have mattered to Abram because he saw before him his Lord, his shield and his exceeding great reward.
With man this duplication of self is impossible ... except maybe through AI. Even so all the image created by AI would not be alive even though they looked like it. But these three were alive enough to eat a meal and exhibit a freewill.
Conclusion of the Lord who appeared to Abraham is this:
God appeared unto Abram as three duplicates of the one image of the one God. Now, this conclusion will lead to an interesting take on who went into Sodom and Gomorrah and when.
I hope someone is interested to see what really happened there.
Last edited:
Right Divider
Body part
"Made in His image" is NOT referring to a "created visible image". This is a FIGURE OF SPEECH.
I don't know why you (and so many others) have such problems understanding FIGURES OF SPEECH.
"Made in the image of God" is a metaphor. We share some of the same attributes as God.
Gobbleygook.
Yes, it's PLURAL. There are three persons in the Godhead.
God is not "full of the essence of life"... He IS LIFE.
VladtheDestroyer
Member
Hey there
I'm still pretty new here, but I've noticed how a lot of your posts, unfortunately, have this type of condescending tone to them. And I think the reason you are doing that is because you had a certain disagreement with maybe several or even most of the other people on this forum about something and so now you want to separate yourself from them by insinuating that you will be the one who "knows better than they do" and that it is somehow likely now that most people here hardly know anything at all.
I don't know if that's what happened or not or what's going on in your life. But can you do me a favor and stop acting like that? Because it's disruptive. Do you understand that? It's not good. It's not the right behavior to allow good fellowship.
Ok?
Yes, they were calling me an idiot and labeling me as a person whom they consider not even to be saved and I had barely begun to visit TOL after a long time of being too busy to come to write. I felt they were very condescending, but I've moved on from them. I think I have found some very nice posters since then who don't do what they were doing.Hey there
I'm still pretty new here, but I've noticed how a lot of your posts, unfortunately, have this type of condescending tone to them. And I think the reason you are doing that is because you had a certain disagreement with maybe several or even most of the other people on this forum about something and so now you want to separate yourself from them by insinuating that you will be the one who "knows better than they do" and that it is somehow likely now that most people here hardly know anything at all.
I don't know if that's what happened or not or what's going on in your life. But can you do me a favor and stop acting like that? Because it's disruptive. Do you understand that? It's not good. It's not the right behavior to allow good fellowship.
Ok?
No, this is just my style of writing and I think it has more to do with my excitement about these topics which I love! I do think I've discovered some things that others haven't and I'm wanting to share the new ideas. Please look at my thoughts instead of any writing style.
I'm sure not everyone is going to agree with my thoughts for they are quite different from the norm. I'm glad you converse with me. Now, if you want to soften my writing tone, try reading my post with the voice of Scarlett O'Hara for that is the way I sound when I speak. A strong Piedmont Southern lady accent. LOL
Hello ok doser. I noticed you "liked" my topic. Thank you.
I assume that means you will come to check what I have to say. Thanks again; so, I will continue with this topic.
Part ONE summary.
Abram/Abraham fell to the ground and worshiped the three heavenly men who appeared to him. None of them rejected the worship. He also only referred to them by variations of the same name. KJV uses LORD, My Lord, lords. I'm not sure if Moses used these variations to point out who did what or when or if the KJV translators did that for the same reason, but I see that no other names like Michael or Gabriel were used to denote underling angels [supernatural sentient beings] who had come with The LORD. See if this bares out through Gen. 18-19.
I think the ONE God had created ONE image for the plurality of his invisible living essence and used it. This is the premice I use to make conclusions at this time.
[Therefore, I wonder if the three of them might symbolically represent the three ways God planned to work among men: The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. Just wondering here cause I'm excited about room for possibilities and insight...]
Now, Part TWO:
The LORD had a lot to say to Abraham as the three sat and ate a meal near Abrams tent door - so close that Sara/Sarah laughed at the idea she might have a child.
The one addressed as The LORD explained their singular mission for their arrival. Now, the three got up with the intentions to go into Sodom:
Genesis 18:
16 And the [three] men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17-19 [The LORD, [the one identified by that name] decided to stay behind and talk privately with Abraham. He didn't want to hide his plans from him.]
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know [IOW I will perceive it].
Now here is where interesting things began to happen. The LORD didn't seem to tell the truth. He said I will go down NOW. Did he?
Gen. 18:
22 And the [two supernatural] men turned their faces from thence, and went [right away] toward Sodom: but Abraham [still] stood yet before The LORD.
Now, if The LORD is the antecedent of the pronoun I, then why didn't he do what he said he was going to do - leave right then and go with the other 2 lords?
My thoughts: If my premise is correct: The ONE God was appearing among men, then these three - The LORD, the Lords, lords were representing the one God bearing His created personal image. All three didn't need to leave right way in order to stay on mission.
This enable One LORD to exhibit freewill and stay behind with Abraham while their mission continued.
Now, the mission was: Go into the city right away to check things out, but what did the two do instead? Would those representing God disobey?
Genesis 9:1a And there came [the] two angels [two sentient super natural males] to Sodom at evening; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom.
Consider this: Lot, who had lived with Abraham during all those years when the LORD was appearing and speaking to Abraham, may have, at least, heard a description of the appearance of the LORD from Abraham. See if there is a clue in the next verse which opens the door that Lot seemed to know enough.
Genesis 19:2b ... and Lot seeing them [the two supernatural males] bowed himself with his face toward the ground [a worship position.]
This was exactly what Abraham did when he saw all three. Worshiped them. Gen.18:2... when he saw them, he ran to meet them... and bowed himself toward the ground. None of the three rejected the worship.
I figure Lot knew enough to realize that the God of Abraham had shown up. He worshiped them and also called them My Lords, then invited them to his home for an evening meal.
Now, I must stop writing. Things I have to do - I am a woman and there is dinner to cook. The next part will be about:
I assume that means you will come to check what I have to say. Thanks again; so, I will continue with this topic.
Part ONE summary.
Abram/Abraham fell to the ground and worshiped the three heavenly men who appeared to him. None of them rejected the worship. He also only referred to them by variations of the same name. KJV uses LORD, My Lord, lords. I'm not sure if Moses used these variations to point out who did what or when or if the KJV translators did that for the same reason, but I see that no other names like Michael or Gabriel were used to denote underling angels [supernatural sentient beings] who had come with The LORD. See if this bares out through Gen. 18-19.
I think the ONE God had created ONE image for the plurality of his invisible living essence and used it. This is the premice I use to make conclusions at this time.
[Therefore, I wonder if the three of them might symbolically represent the three ways God planned to work among men: The Father, The Son, The Holy Spirit. Just wondering here cause I'm excited about room for possibilities and insight...]
Now, Part TWO:
The LORD had a lot to say to Abraham as the three sat and ate a meal near Abrams tent door - so close that Sara/Sarah laughed at the idea she might have a child.
The one addressed as The LORD explained their singular mission for their arrival. Now, the three got up with the intentions to go into Sodom:
Genesis 18:
16 And the [three] men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17-19 [The LORD, [the one identified by that name] decided to stay behind and talk privately with Abraham. He didn't want to hide his plans from him.]
20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know [IOW I will perceive it].
Now here is where interesting things began to happen. The LORD didn't seem to tell the truth. He said I will go down NOW. Did he?
Gen. 18:
22 And the [two supernatural] men turned their faces from thence, and went [right away] toward Sodom: but Abraham [still] stood yet before The LORD.
Now, if The LORD is the antecedent of the pronoun I, then why didn't he do what he said he was going to do - leave right then and go with the other 2 lords?
My thoughts: If my premise is correct: The ONE God was appearing among men, then these three - The LORD, the Lords, lords were representing the one God bearing His created personal image. All three didn't need to leave right way in order to stay on mission.
This enable One LORD to exhibit freewill and stay behind with Abraham while their mission continued.
Now, the mission was: Go into the city right away to check things out, but what did the two do instead? Would those representing God disobey?
Genesis 9:1a And there came [the] two angels [two sentient super natural males] to Sodom at evening; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom.
Consider this: Lot, who had lived with Abraham during all those years when the LORD was appearing and speaking to Abraham, may have, at least, heard a description of the appearance of the LORD from Abraham. See if there is a clue in the next verse which opens the door that Lot seemed to know enough.
Genesis 19:2b ... and Lot seeing them [the two supernatural males] bowed himself with his face toward the ground [a worship position.]
This was exactly what Abraham did when he saw all three. Worshiped them. Gen.18:2... when he saw them, he ran to meet them... and bowed himself toward the ground. None of the three rejected the worship.
I figure Lot knew enough to realize that the God of Abraham had shown up. He worshiped them and also called them My Lords, then invited them to his home for an evening meal.
Now, I must stop writing. Things I have to do - I am a woman and there is dinner to cook. The next part will be about:
- Why did they not walk around in Sodom that evening to check things out according to their mission?
- Who did?
- Anyone?