Anyone ready a 2nd look at Sodom and G?

[Ps82]

Regarding this story in Genesis I note the following:

In verse 1 :

"And the Lord appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;"

So the Lord has at this point appeared whilst Abraham was sitting in his tent door.

Yes.

Verse 2:
"And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,"

I have trouble reconciling the statement "stood by him" and Abraham subsequently having to "run to meet them". Doesn't make sense.
Surely "stood by him" can't mean standing say 20 yards from him! So surely this means that there was "the Lord" PLUS there were 3 men standing by him (the Lord). So the verse is saying first the Lord appeared and then there were 3 men standing by "the Lord" and Abraham ran and went to meet them all. So we're looking at 4 people here, the Lord and 3 men.

Love how you pay attention to detail ... and how you ask God for understanding. You are a seeker for sure... and I believe he will reveal truth to honest seekers.
Well, a person could study the ancient word which was interpreted into English to mean "stood by him. That might be a good way to decide truth ... but I think there are enough contextual clues within the verse to know that the three were not right next to him. Things like: when he looked he saw... and when he saw he ran to meet them. IOW, he left the tent door ...

The main things which jumped out to me: The three were together ... but the only name Abraham used to great them was LORD/lords. I happen to have read where The Spiritual God gave a name to his presence-his living image created to represent himself as the living God. Read this event [Ex 3:13-15]. First you hear God tell Moses who He is. I AM THAT I AM. This is like saying I AM the eternal ONE, but God does not stop there explaining who Moses has SEEN inside the bush.

He ends by telling Moses His chosen name:
Verse 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, "Thus shall thou say unto the children of Israel, 'The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you:' this is MY NAME FOREVER."

Did Abraham and Jacob know the chosen name of LORD/YHWH when they worshiped God? No. Watch.

Exodus 6:3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.
IOW, they did not know God's chosen name - of LORD/YHWH or here mentioned Jehovah. One might do a study of the KJV name Jehovah to see how it was derived.

Is it any wonder that Jacob asked God what his name was [Gen. 32:24-30] ? ... Yet, God did not reveal it to Jacob:
Gen. 32:29 And Jacob asked HIM, and said, "Tell me, I pray thee, thy name."
And HE [God] said, "Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after My name? And He [God] blessed him [Jacob] there."

God who appeared to Jacob and wrestled with him never told Jacob his chosen name but waited to tell his friend Moses. Why? I don't know ... but I do know that after Moses learned God's chosen Name of LORD The LORD God he knew exactly when and where to put it in scripture when writing the first five books. Therefore, you will see the name LORD mentioned through out those books ... and the first time Moses inserts the truth was in Genesis 2:
Verse 4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens ...

Wish I knew why the invisible God waited to reveal his chosen name for his visible presence to Moses.

Verse 3:
"Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree:"

Rest? Does the Lord (God) need to rest? Does he get tired all of a sudden? Surely not. The men however, yes they might need rest and food.

Abram said exactly what any human might say when three special/unusual sojourners came for a visit. BTW, they could and did eat... but I agree with you that they probably could not get tired or even be harmed.

Verse 4:
16 And the men rose up from thence, and looked toward Sodom: and Abraham went with them to bring them on the way.
17 And the Lord said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do;

There's a clear distinction here between "the Lord" and "the men". They are not one and the same. The Lord asks the men "Shall I hide from Abraham . . ."etc.

Just my 2penneth

I agree ... but consider things this way: Only the name LORD was ever spoken - no LORD and you angelic messengers ... or You, Michael and Gabriel. Just LORD... and Abram worshiped them without any two saying - No. Stop.

I see the Three representing the ONE Creator visually ... and remember Abraham did not know God by the name LORD. It was Moses who interjected the name LORD and lords. I figure it was just the way Moses chose to distinguish between the three... for later two lords went into Sodom and arrive around evening. First, Lot worshiped them in the same manner that Abram had worshiped the three, then he invited them for dinner and to spend the night.

The third, singled out by Moses as The LORD, went later that night and stayed on mission in the streets all night judging the citizens. He was the sojourner that the mob man-handled and wanted to harm along with the other two lords inside Lot's house.

Now, scripture does not explain how the mob knew the two at Lot's house were the comrades of the third LORD which they had outside Lot's door; so, I asked God to help me understand ... All I can say is that this information came to me. I am ONE God with ONE image and I designed it as our image for us. [Genesis 1:26-27]. I used it to appear as the Father and again to appear as the Son ... I am not limited to using it only once but I can manifest it even in multiples. I concluded the three LORD/lords looked like the ONE presence belonging to ONE God. I am yet to find anything to prove to me that this was not possible.

I find all these ideas fascinating to consider and in my case believe ... but I do not look down on any one who does not see things my way ... for believers know the plan of salvation and that is our gift from God.

 

[Ps82]

Yet if you do not go down that trail then you will simply bend your knee to any tyrant that demands you worship it for fear of the consequences.

I'm not sure why you concluded this [you will bend your knee to any tyrant...} from the question I asked: "A man dares to hold God accountable for his behavior? Well, not sure I want to go down that trail ... in Ps 82 Satan did and it did not go well." As a believer I really think it is God who sets the standards for us created mortal humans to live by ... and it is my duty to serve and glorify him as LORD.

Now whilst that might be understandable in terms of preserving your life and avoiding suffering this in no way lessens the fact that you have surrendered to a tyrant. If you lived in Germany WW2 and Hitler demanded you submit to him and scrub his boots you might well comply for fear of the repercussions. Similarly if you lived in the Middle East you might also find similar examples of punishments for non-compliance.

I understand why people will serve a tyrant. It will save their lives and things will go well for them on earth ... for a while. But somewhere it is said: Those who try to save their lives will loose them. It might apply in this case. I think about and pray that I will be able to resist Satan when he reveals himself among men. He may already know my weaknesses, but I won't share them here just in case he doesn't. Only God in me can help me at that time.

Yet is this right? Do we not have a moral responsibility to demand that anyone we worship and revere should demonstrate certain behaviours and characteristics? Otherwise what's the point? You live under tyranny and is that really much better than dying anyway?

God The Creator is not equal to imperfect men on earth. He is not a hateful lying tyrant such as Satan. Only God is good. The rest of us have fallen short of what was planned/desired for us. Why would he even want us back? Right there people should know he is merciful, kind, enduring us until the saints are manifested in the eternal kingdom.

The gods may well be vastly superior and more powerful than I am but should I just submit through threat of punishment for non-compliance?
Surely that's not right. Surely there must be accountability and demonstration of moral behaviours before we consider worshipping anyone or anything. If an entity punishes someone for daring to expect such moral accountability then that entity is surely a tyrant.

Perhaps if you list all the ways you see God behaving like a tyrant ... I can better understand your thoughts. I keep asking: Why would God even care to still be dealing with humanity unless he is merciful? He could have destroyed us as a created group right there in The Garden. He still deals with us because he is Good not because we are good.

Do you know that God cursed the ground FOR MANKIND'S SAKE? That means he did it for our good. It reminds me of how a mother might make her child take some terrible medicine for she knew it was for the good. We are not having fun taking our medicine due to sin ... but we trust that it will be for the good of those who trust the LORD God.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

Elohiym/Elohim does not particularly mean there are many Gods ... but ONE God having a multiplicity of living nature.

No that's just a bastardisation of the term done by Trinitarians to justify their models. There's no question that Elohim is plural and means EITHER any god with a little "g" or a particular god who wishes to be seen as the top dog and thus likes to be known as God with a capital "g".

Strong's Concorance - Elohim :

Original Word: אֱלהִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: elohim
Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem')
Definition: God, god

Well, I think we agree on this point also.

No I don't think we agree at all.

I don't worship God and My Lord because I fear him harming me. I reasoned and life taught me that I was helpless like an orphan without a Father in this tough world.

If you believe that then you should be asking who made you helpless as an orphan and who put you in this tough world. In your belief system this amounts to wilful forced coercion. i.e an entity puts you in a hopeless environment in which you will surely die and says hey, worship me, bow down, and I'll save you. That's a sick way to acquire followers and none of them can thus be genuine. Your god lacks the will to make humans free. He has imprisoned them on this planet and curtailed their natural abilities. He has taken free will from them and stripped them of life years that they would otherwise live. And why has this been done? Well according to the literal (incorrect) reading of the Bible it's because Adam and Eve dared to want to know things, to learn, to be better than they are, something your god cruelly forbade them to do. In fact the Bible clearly says that the gods were concerned that humans might be like them and live forever. Not very nice. In fact pretty wicked. Such a story taken literally, doesn't support the Christian concept of a loving god. It paints a picture of a despotic god who wants all the power and be top dog whilst everyone else is subjugated beneath him. Small wonder the other gods sought to rebel against such tyranny. The reality of course is that the Bible text is not literal in much of Genesis, it is purely allegorical which is why a literal reading makes no sense. The proper allegorical reading conceals the secrets of alchemy and the Elixir Of Life (manna, Soma, Ambrosia, Philosopher's Stone etc). The Church peddles its BS literal nonsense and keeps the masses in ignorant stupor. Genesis is a declaration of wonder, it's announcing the Stone, it's describing how it is made, what some of the practical processes are. The male and female principles required for that Work and so on.

I've seen how the hearts of mankind are bent on evil continually. What a cruel and judgemental people we are. I reasoned I needed the gift of the Holy Spirit brought by my Savior or there is no hope for me/mankind.

Your reasoning was religious indoctrination not critical thinking. Mankind is bent on evil as you put it because mankind has been forced into a planetary prison and the key substance humans need to survive and flourish (the Stone) has been taken from them by your god. In other words your god has set up the environment, removed what's needed to exist in that environment and as a result has forced humans to vie for scarce resources. Humans have no choice but to fight each other because otherwise they die. They must eat, drink, acquire shelter, warmth from the elements etc etc. All the things that the Stone would otherwise bestow on them. Note teh story of Eden. Adam and Eve wandered around naked. They didn't feel the extremes of heat or cold. They didn't need to eat or drink per say other than to take in quantities of the Stone in whatever form god supplied it be that in the waters available to them or in the foods around them. They went from an existence in which they would have lived forever with no needs whatsoever to living in a hellish planetary world stripped of that most vital substance which god witheld from them.
I'm sorry but everything that followed on Earth from that point was the direct result of god keeping the Stone for himself and witholding it from humanity. We are nothing more than grunt slaves as a result destined to die. How loving indeed !

I enjoyed responding to your post for you are a seeker. God promises - Proverbs 8:17 Seek Me ... early ... you shall find me. Pa 9:10 is another place where the promise is made.

I am certainly a seeker and I did seek and I did find, by following a Hansel and Gretel trail of breadcrumbs that has been laid out for 1000s of years. What Philosophers call Ariandne's Thread. Anyone who is able to cast off the harmful and oppressive shackles of religious indoctrination born from a false interpretation of the Bible will free themselves up to look in new directions and WILL inevitably stumble across Ariadne's Thread as a result and that will over time, inevitably lead them to the true source of all life, the Spiritus Mundi and the Stone. This is why the Stone is referenced so many times throughout the Bible text. This is why Jesus warns us (allegorically) that unless we eat of the White Stone and drink of the Red Stone, we have no life in us and are basically going to perish. Jesus was a man. A gifted and remarkable man, but a man nonetheless. Jesus was an alchemist quite clearly and had in his possession the Stone(s) and he taught his disciples the "mysteries of the kingdom" which include that Stone and how to create it and use it. The Church will of course never teach this to its flocks because it wants control, wants humans in an indoctrinated state so they comply and behave as they want them to.

Seek and you WILL find, it is most true but it is Ariadne's Thread that you will find not a tyrannical fictitious god. The true source of life and love is all around us, it pervades everything. It's nothing like a human. It's a constant flow of supreme energy that can be tapped into. It will raise a human up back to who they should be and beyond. The Earthy powers will thus do anything and everything to prevent us knowing about that life energy and the Stone and will try to prevent us finding it. Yet throughout history numerous humans HAVE found it but they unfortunately have to remain ever cautious and careful because if found out the Earthly powers will remove them from the playing field.

None of this can make sense if you do not have the "eyes to see and ears to hear" that Jesus constantly mentioned especially during his allegorical parables. You can only gain those eyes and ears once you discard the religious programming you received from childhood and cast aside all ego and thoughts of self-worth. Your religious mind control will prevent you from looking where you need to look using fear and guilt as its primary weapons. When you are ready to start the true search you will have discarded your shackles. May that be so one day.

 

[SwordOfTruth]

Perhaps if you list all the ways you see God behaving like a tyrant ... I can better understand your thoughts. I keep asking: Why would God even care to still be dealing with humanity unless he is merciful? He could have destroyed us as a created group right there in The Garden. He still deals with us because he is Good not because we are good.

A tyrant rules by force of arms or instilled fear. God's proposition is worship me, follow me, or else I'll destroy you in a lake of fire. He put the lake of fire there, he is responsible for the creation of this Earth and its limited resources. He is responsible for witholding from mankind the one true thing mankind needs to survive, maintain perfect health and flourish. God wants the human slave force. He must be bored as hell if he is the all-powerful all-knowing entity Christianity claims him to be. The story of Genesis (if taken literally which is incorrect) tells us that god created Adam (man) to tend a bloody garden which god had created. Why the hell would an all-powerful god need a man to tend a garden. He can just will the garden to maintain itself and it happens. Your god is a jealous being, he somehow needs to create other beings so that he can be worshipped by them. That's pretty pathetic. Worse still when he gives them a very limited choice of actions and they don't do what he wants then he punishes them brutally, consigning them to a very limited lifespan instead of immortality and limiting all the votal resources they will need to flourish resulting in mankind having to constantly fight amongst itself for those resources. We are a doctored species. Our pineal glands are suppressed. Our brains are suppressed preventing us from using about 80% of its capacity. We feel the extremes of heat and cold where before we were immune to them. The free flow of vital universal life force is kept from us, we are generally kept ignorant of it, the secrets of how to tap into it are hidden from us and those that find it are forced into hiding. I could go on and on. The human condition is a pathetic vulnerable weak one made deliberately by your god. His proposition is worship or die. Such are the dictats of tyrants.

Do you know that God cursed the ground FOR MANKIND'S SAKE? That means he did it for our good. It reminds me of how a mother might make her child take some terrible medicine for she knew it was for the good. We are not having fun taking our medicine due to sin ... but we trust that it will be for the good of those who trust the LORD God.

You may as well worship Hitler. This is just an apologetic stance. A stance you would make no matter how disgusting the attrocities your god perpetrates or permits. Therein lies your problem and the reason you don't have the eyes to see and ears to hear that Jesus spoke of.

 

[Ps82]

A tyrant rules by force of arms or instilled fear. God's proposition is worship me, follow me, or else I'll destroy you in a lake of fire. He put the lake of fire there, he is responsible for the creation of this Earth and its limited resources. He is responsible for witholding from mankind the one true thing mankind needs to survive, maintain perfect health and flourish. God wants the human slave force.

His position is our choosing to worship him for he holds hope for us with reconciliation and the gift of eternal life where there will be no strife, sickness, and pain. I look forward to that. God did not create puppets but rather sentient individuals and then gave him the ability to choose him. God gave man and angels this choice too. Now, I know in the case of mankind there was the warning about choices: Partake of the fruit of the knowledge of good AND evil and death will come. I can't blame God... for not wanting evil in his perfect kingdom. So what is evil? Satan and his 1/3 is an example of evil - the great liar, deceiver, the one who covet what others have, an accuser of his Creator, a rebellious one who wanted to be God not a god/angel. To this day if humanity chooses evil over a good God then then the warning of death persists. But physical death was done for our sake. Hard to believe but that is the way God rescues us from the curse of death and gives us a new eternal body. Read Genesis 3. God cursed the elements of the ground for man's sake. He did not curse mankind ... but he did leave the gift of choice. Man's first death for those who choose to follow God's Savior as Lord is to release us for better things.

Now, regarding the Lake of Fire - another favorite topic of mine. Most students of the Bible believe that mankind will suffer forever in burning flames. At this point in my studies I think there is room for something else to happen. I do believe that lost souls do suffer in a place called hell at this time and that angels dread being cast away from this present world into a place called the Pit. They must be afraid of some sort of suffering there or perhaps fear that their time is drawing near. Anyway, because God is a good God and a fair judge both lost angels and lost humans will meet the same final fate. That is the Lake of Fire. Second death for mankind ... I am assuming at this time, since God IS LIFE and the power which provides life to all creatures came from him, then it can return to him when ever he wishes. I see no reason, at this time, to say he might not obliterate the existence of a living creature like mankind and therefore not leave them suffering forever. I know people will disagree with me ... but at this time it's my thoughts. I do believe He is a good God. Until God decides it time to end things as we know it ... there is a lot of suffering going on right here on Earth and in hell. Even the martyred saints are impatient and asking, "How Long must we wait for ...?"

Here is a thought regarding a good God... He made death a process happening overtime so that mankind could fulfill the command: Reproduce and multiply. Having children a process taking time ... physical death a process. I once whined a prayer to God one night about suffering and was asking God WHY about a lot of things. Almost accusing him of being a bad God. Well, I was stopped in my tracks when this came to mind: "I waited on you ______my name ____!" After that statement floods of scripture started to fill my mind. He has waited on me to be born... and he has waited on you! Even thought He knew we would accuse him of being unfair ... he waited on us! I decided after this experience that I would get through this life and endure what suffering might come my way. With his help I would endure the shadow of death and it would all be worth it if I could be in his kingdom with my children and children's children etc ... where there would be no more sickness and pain nor death or hell. I choose this ... not out of fear but out of hope.

He must be bored as hell if he is the all-powerful all-knowing entity Christianity claims him to be. The story of Genesis (if taken literally which is incorrect) tells us that god created Adam (man) to tend a bloody garden which god had created.

If it is bloody mankind made it that way. Just saying.

Why the hell would an all-powerful god need a man to tend a garden. He can just will the garden to maintain itself and it happens. Your god is a jealous being, he somehow needs to create other beings so that he can be worshipped by them.

You are so correct about how God does not need mankind. Yet he chose to create us anyway and offered us fellowship with him as our Father/Creator.

That's pretty pathetic. Worse still when he gives them a very limited choice of actions and they don't do what he wants then he punishes them brutally, consigning them to a very limited lifespan instead of immortality and limiting all the votal resources they will need to flourish resulting in mankind having to constantly fight amongst itself for those resources.

Why would God want judgmental people [filled with the knowledge of good and EVIL] to live as immortals with him eternally? Would you as a human create a handy tool to get a job done and still keep it after it broke so that every time you used it it cut your hand. Or would you fix the tool or make it better. We are the handy tool who cuts as well and I say God is making us better. Would you like to live eternally as an immortal with despots like Hitler or etc? Somehow I don't think you would. I think God knows best how to do good things.

We are a doctored species. Our pineal glands are suppressed. Our brains are suppressed preventing us from using about 80% of its capacity. We feel the extremes of heat and cold where before we were immune to them. The free flow of vital universal life force is kept from us, we are generally kept ignorant of it, the secrets of how to tap into it are hidden from us and those that find it are forced into hiding. I could go on and on. The human condition is a pathetic vulnerable weak one made deliberately by your god. His proposition is worship or die. Such are the dictats of tyrants.

I am very sad to hear how life is going for you. Honestly. I understand life is tough. Hang in ... there is hope with God. He is a promise keeper and his gift of the Holy Spirit is a comforter and gives strength when we are down and joy when we face sadness. I do get it. You seem to believe there is a Creator ... shouldn't the one who created us know what is best. He gave us The TEN so that things would go better for us in this world. He even added health practices to protect our bodies. Example: Sexual sin, he told us, is a sin against one's own body. Poor hygiene and gluttony lead to sickness. He knows we suffer but he hasn't finished waiting on his children to be born so he can bless them ... therefore we suffer because of one man Adam [male/female] but we are saved by one man- our Lord and Savior Jesus.

You may as well worship Hitler. This is just an apologetic stance. A stance you would make no matter how disgusting the attrocities your god perpetrates or permits. Therein lies your problem and the reason you don't have the eyes to see and ears to hear that Jesus spoke of.

I know you are exhausted from reading my post ... I am so full of words ... but I am a woman! I wish you the best. Lean on Jesus as your Savior ... he / his spirit in us will answer your questions like he has mine. Learn to hear his voice. I have to remind myself of that constantly.

 

[Ps82]

I'm not sure why you concluded this [you will bend your knee to any tyrant...} from the question I asked: "A man dares to hold God accountable for his behavior? Well, not sure I want to go down that trail ... in Ps 82 Satan did and it did not go well." As a believer I really think it is God who sets the standards for us created mortal humans to live by ... and it is my duty to serve and glorify him as LORD.

I understand why people will serve a tyrant. It will save their lives and things will go well for them on earth ... for a while. But somewhere it is said: Those who try to save their lives will loose them. It might apply in this case. I think about and pray that I will be able to resist Satan when he reveals himself among men. He may already know my weaknesses, but I won't share them here just in case he doesn't. Only God in me can help me at that time.


God The Creator is not equal to imperfect men on earth. He is not a hateful lying tyrant such as Satan. Only God is good. The rest of us have fallen short of what was planned/desired for us. Why would he even want us back? Right there people should know he is merciful, kind, enduring us until the saints are manifested in the eternal kingdom.


Perhaps if you list all the ways you see God behaving like a tyrant ... I can better understand your thoughts. I keep asking: Why would God even care to still be dealing with humanity unless he is merciful? He could have destroyed us as a created group right there in The Garden. He still deals with us because he is Good not because we are good.

Do you know that God cursed the ground FOR MANKIND'S SAKE? That means he did it for our good. It reminds me of how a mother might make her child take some terrible medicine for she knew it was for the good. We are not having fun taking our medicine due to sin ... but we trust that it will be for the good of those who trust the LORD God.

 

[Ps82]

No that's just a bastardisation of the term done by Trinitarians to justify their models. There's no question that Elohim is plural and means EITHER any god with a little "g" or a particular god who wishes to be seen as the top dog and thus likes to be known as God with a capital "g".

Strong's Concorance - Elohim :

Original Word: אֱלהִים
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: elohim
Phonetic Spelling: (el-o-heem')

The Strong's Concordance says regarding God in Genesis 1:1-3 says: I added a few things like spelling things out instead of using the Strong's abbreviations and my comments inside [...]
430 Elohiym - plural of the root word 433. [IOW ... a plural or sort of collective noun form showing the multifaceted nature of his spiritual essence]
433 gods in the ordinary sense, but specifically used [in the plural form especially]... of the supreme God ...
It also can be applied to mention magistrates [ IOW ...authority] sometimes as a superlative - angels x exceeding.

Well, all of this lines up with some of my conclusions of who I believe God to be.
1.) Elohiym [lots of people just seem to spell it Elohim???] is an invisible multifaceted living invisible Spirit. So full of all things that only a plural or compound word could be used to express the fullness of who he is.
2.) He stated He has his own personal heavenly supernatural image for his personal use. This concept of being able to do this for himself certainly aligns with how he was able to also give angelic beings their own heavenly supernatural bodily forms and to why they can be referred to as gods versus being the extreme potentate - God.
3.) God gave his body of heaven a name forever: YHWH/The LORD. BTW ... Jesus is referred to by the name or title Lord because The WORD of God came into the world as God but with human flesh. That addition made a slight difference in glory between him and the Father.

If you believe that then you should be asking who made you helpless as an orphan and who put you in this tough world.

God did not say that in Ps 82. That was Satan telling God how pitiful humanity is. In Ps 82 Satan stands before God accusing him of being an unjust judge ... much like I did once and you now. Then he began accusing mankind of being pitiful and the cause of all that is wrong. Actually, he was not too far wrong ... BUT God is a fair judge ... and he offers mankind hope after all things are completed.

In your belief system this amounts to wilful forced coercion. i.e an entity puts you in a hopeless environment in which you will surely die and says hey, worship me, bow down, and I'll save you.

My brother was bitten by a rabid dog. He had to take a lot of shots in his stomach ... but he listened to the doctor who said it would be for his good ... he endured the pain and suffering and all turned out well. Perhaps humanity [Adam], who played with evil, should listen to their doctor and trust that things are being done for their good. Otherwise people may just be rebellious and foolish.

That's a sick way to acquire followers and none of them can thus be genuine.

I'll just say: You don't have to follow him. Who is making you. I'm giving my opinions of how I see things ... but your current life is in your hands.

Your god lacks the will to make humans free. He has imprisoned them on this planet and curtailed their natural abilities. He has taken free will from them and stripped them of life years that they would otherwise live. And why has this been done? Well according to the literal (incorrect) reading of the Bible it's because Adam and Eve dared to want to know things, to learn, to be better than they are, something your god cruelly forbade them to do. In fact the Bible clearly says that the gods were concerned that humans might be like them and live forever. Not very nice. In fact pretty wicked. Such a story taken literally, doesn't support the Christian concept of a loving god. It paints a picture of a despotic god who wants all the power and be top dog whilst everyone else is subjugated beneath him. Small wonder the other gods sought to rebel against such tyranny. The reality of course is that the Bible text is not literal in much of Genesis, it is purely allegorical which is why a literal reading makes no sense.

I love the symbolism of the Bible, but I happen to believe scripture can be parables and the truth. Truth can even be played out in the stories of the lives of real people... and used to explain the works of God.
One example of symbolism is: A tree represents a kingdom ... IOW, citizens with a powerful leader. To me The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil symbolizes the kingdom Satan built. The fruit of which Woman and Adam partook was knowledge they were not suppose to embrace. This means they rejected God's plan and took Satan as their master. I happen to believe they actually did pluck something from a tree ... I know weird huh? But it all represented their rebellion toward God and the choice to become like the angels. I actually consider that woman wanted the physical glory which the angels had as gods ... and she thought she could obtain it from Satan ... but after they trust him they saw they were naked of what they hoped to obtain and were ashamed they had been fooled and failed; so, they covered themselves with earthly leaves and hid from the LORD as he approached calling to them ... but these are just my thoughts.

Your reasoning was religious indoctrination not critical thinking.

Hmmm ... there are all sorts of religions ... To the best of my ability I am a follower of the LORD Jesus and God's Word. I know he is real, alive, knows what is going on in this world and cares. How do I know? He has made himself real to me personally. When I listen and hear he can speak to me ... usually it's that still small voice or through a dream ... Nothing earth shaking just stuff between Him and me.

Mankind is bent on evil as you put it because mankind has been forced into a planetary prison and the key substance humans need to survive and flourish (the Stone) has been taken from them by your god. In other words your god has set up the environment, removed what's needed to exist in that environment and as a result has forced humans to vie for scarce resources. Humans have no choice but to fight each other because otherwise they die. They must eat, drink, acquire shelter, warmth from the elements etc etc. All the things that the Stone would otherwise bestow on them. Note teh story of Eden. Adam and Eve wandered around naked. They didn't feel the extremes of heat or cold. They didn't need to eat or drink per say other than to take in quantities of the Stone in whatever form god supplied it be that in the waters available to them or in the foods around them. They went from an existence in which they would have lived forever with no needs whatsoever to living in a hellish planetary world stripped of that most vital substance which god witheld from them.
I'm sorry but everything that followed on Earth from that point was the direct result of god keeping the Stone for himself and witholding it from humanity. We are nothing more than grunt slaves as a result destined to die. How loving indeed !

Life is rough ... God warned Adam and he has warned us ... but suffering with hope in the end.

I am certainly a seeker and I did seek and I did find, by following a Hansel and Gretel trail of breadcrumbs that has been laid out for 1000s of years. What Philosophers call Ariandne's Thread. Anyone who is able to cast off the harmful and oppressive shackles of religious indoctrination born from a false interpretation of the Bible will free themselves up to look in new directions and WILL inevitably stumble across Ariadne's Thread as a result and that will over time, inevitably lead them to the true source of all life, the Spiritus Mundi and the Stone. This is why the Stone is referenced so many times throughout the Bible text. This is why Jesus warns us (allegorically) that unless we eat of the White Stone and drink of the Red Stone, we have no life in us and are basically going to perish. Jesus was a man. A gifted and remarkable man, but a man nonetheless. Jesus was an alchemist quite clearly and had in his possession the Stone(s) and he taught his disciples the "mysteries of the kingdom" which include that Stone and how to create it and use it. The Church will of course never teach this to its flocks because it wants control, wants humans in an indoctrinated state so they comply and behave as they want them to.

Seek and you WILL find, it is most true but it is Ariadne's Thread that you will find not a tyrannical fictitious god. The true source of life and love is all around us, it pervades everything. It's nothing like a human. It's a constant flow of supreme energy that can be tapped into. It will raise a human up back to who they should be and beyond. The Earthy powers will thus do anything and everything to prevent us knowing about that life energy and the Stone and will try to prevent us finding it. Yet throughout history numerous humans HAVE found it but they unfortunately have to remain ever cautious and careful because if found out the Earthly powers will remove them from the playing field.

None of this can make sense if you do not have the "eyes to see and ears to hear" that Jesus constantly mentioned especially during his allegorical parables. You can only gain those eyes and ears once you discard the religious programming you received from childhood and cast aside all ego and thoughts of self-worth. Your religious mind control will prevent you from looking where you need to look using fear and guilt as its primary weapons. When you are ready to start the true search you will have discarded your shackles. May that be so one day.

Keep searching. I think God is calling you ... but you need to know the Savior. Why? God wants him glorified for what he did to willingly suffer and die for his friends. What greater man is there than the one who dies for his friends. What other gods, which people claim, are known to have died to save people?

 

[SwordOfTruth]

His position is our choosing to worship him for he holds hope for us with reconciliation and the gift of eternal life where there will be no strife, sickness, and pain.

But mankind was already in such a place but your god decided to throw us out. He seems mightily confused for a god. If he wants us to live without strife and sickness he can make it so in an instant. Yet he doesn't. I'm afraid your religious indoctrination is very deep, and I say this most sincerely for I have been where you are. You're not ready to exercise sharp critical thinking and be hinest with yourself. You're still at the point where you will make any excuse for your god's inactions and questionable traits.

God did not create puppets but rather sentient individuals and then gave him the ability to choose him.

Arguing for your sake (I don't believe for one second that your god exists, god is something quite different to what you have been programmed to believe)

He gave them Hobson's choice which is no real choice at all. The ability to worship is not the free choice whether to worship. There is no free choice in this matter. If I hold a gun to your partner's head and say "you have a free choice, you can pay me £1000 or I will shoot your partner", only a brainwashed sheep would consider that to be a real free choice. It's no choice at all. If your god does likewise by saying worship me or else you're going into hell or some other facile concept of fear mongering nonsense then that's not a free choice.

A free choice is and can only be "worship me or don't, free choice and there's no punishment for not worshipping me"

Such doesn't exist in the Christian world. Wake up, you're entranced in the spell.

God gave man and angels this choice too. Now, I know in the case of mankind there was the warning about choices: Partake of the fruit of the knowledge of good AND evil and death will come. I can't blame God... for not wanting evil in his perfect kingdom.

The tree was not evil. The tree in the story simply bestowed one with the knowledge of good and evil. It gave a person knowledge of reality which dispells the illusion that Adam and Eve were otherwise entranced in. Prior to eating from the tree they were ignorant, kept (deliberately) in the dark by your god. God knew that they were naked but didn't allow them to know this. What does that say about him?
If a set of parents today raised their kids in a totally locked up environment away from society, TV, radio, external feeds and taught them nothing about clothes so that they were naked all their lives, society and our judicial system would likely prosecute the parents for gross exploitation and abuse of the children. It would be a wicked thing to do.

Why shouldn't Adam and Eve know what god knows? Why shouldn't all entities be equal?

So what is evil?

Evil is a human construct. A societal machination. The universe has no concept of good or bad, it just is. Somewhere out there in space a star is going supernova and is destroying all the planets in that system and thus all life in that system. There's no right or wrong, no good or bad. It's just how the universe is.

Satan and his 1/3 is an example of evil - the great liar, deceiver, the one who covet what others have, an accuser of his Creator, a rebellious one who wanted to be God not a god/angel. To this day if humanity chooses evil over a good God then then the warning of death persists.

You're still locked into classic Christian indoctrination. None of this stuff is true. Read Genesis again. Taking the story literally for your sake (because its allegorical not literal).

God said explicitly, if you eat of the tree of good and evil you will die that same day.

The snake told Adam and Eve that they would not die but would instead know what god knows about good and evil.

Who was the liar here? Be honest.

The snake told the truth for as soon as they ate they indeed DID NOT DIE and gained that knowledge.

God lied. Plain and simple. It was a lie deliberately given to try and keep them from eating from the tree but a lie nonetheless.
After eating from the tree Adam and Eve went on to walk around the garden, they found fig leaves and covered themselves with them, they spoke with god and then after he cruelly banished them to the prison of Earth Adam went on to live 930 yrs had plenty of sex and spawned a large family. Pretty good for a dead guy eh? This is plain text in the Bible. Yet being religiously indoctrinated you have no choice but to concoct some kind of excuse for this terrible discrepency in Genesis. How can god lie?

Don't bother posting the excuses. I've heard them all before. They are wide and far reaching. They include absurdities like, "Adam didn't really die, not physically, but he did die spiritually", and "Adam did die instantly but then God created a 2nd copy of Adam, that's the difference between Adam and Adama" and so on. The plain FACT from that story (when taken literally which is incorrect) is that Adam did not die. Black and white. He lived, went on to live 930 years. So in the story, god lied.

Any need you feel to try and apologise for that uncomfortable part of the story is your religious indoctrination kicking it. You will search and search for an excuse, but your intelligent critical thinking mind will always think and know that something is not right. Either the story is not true (which is the real answer, it's all allegorical) or god isn't the entity you have been taught he is. He's neither all-powerful or all-loving or all-knowing.
It doesn't really matter much which conclusion you reach. What matters more than anything is that you are honest with yourself and allow your intelligent mind to run its course for otherwise you are living a lie, deceiving yourself for the sake of comfortable indoctrination.

Now, regarding the Lake of Fire - another favorite topic of mine. Most students of the Bible believe that mankind will suffer forever in burning flames. At this point in my studies I think there is room for something else to happen. I do believe that lost souls do suffer in a place called hell at this time and that angels dread being cast away from this present world into a place called the Pit. They must be afraid of some sort of suffering there or perhaps fear that their time is drawing near.

How lovely. What kind of tyrant creates such a place and designs such suffering and punishment?!! Do you seriously think an all-loving entity would ever concoct such punishments? Do you think loving parents of children would ruthlessly discipline them by saying "do this otherwise I'm going to throw you into a tub of burning petrol"? Think it through. Something is massively off with what you have been taught.

Anyway, because God is a good God and a fair judge both lost angels and lost humans will meet the same final fate. That is the Lake of Fire. Second death for mankind ... I am assuming at this time, since God IS LIFE and the power which provides life to all creatures came from him, then it can return to him when ever he wishes. I see no reason, at this time, to say he might not obliterate the existence of a living creature like mankind and therefore not leave them suffering forever. I know people will disagree with me ... but at this time it's my thoughts. I do believe He is a good God. Until God decides it time to end things as we know it ... there is a lot of suffering going on right here on Earth and in hell. Even the martyred saints are impatient and asking, "How Long must we wait for ...?"

Though you don't yet realise it, your comments there show plainly how your intelligent mind wrestles with the religious indoctrination. The mind knows fact from fiction. Your mind is exercising critical thinking quite naturally. It is questioning how any entity can be deemed good and loving if it creates such awful places of suffering and torture. Your mind is quite right to question this. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Listen to that mind. Have the courage to do so. Be sincere and honest with yourself for only you can rescue yourself from the shackles that you have allowed to be placed on your hands and feet and mind. Don't try to make excuses for the situation as you did there. Just see that it's complete nonsense, a total fiction and do not fear it. If your god is loving and understanding he WILL absolutely 100% expect that you will have doubts and want to question things so don't be afraid to do so. Even to the point of coming to the conclusion that he doesn't exist (in the sense that religion has programmed you with) and that god is in fact something very different.

Why would God want judgmental people [filled with the knowledge of good and EVIL] to live as immortals with him eternally?

Well he wouldnt if he were a jealous powermad entity of course. He would want all the knowledge and power for himself.
But tell me, if you had a cure for cancer today, would you not go out and immediately share that knowledge with all mankind to end their suffering? Of course you would. It would be the loving thing to do. A despot would bottle it, keep it from others and seek to gain power from that advantage. Why shouldn't everyone share the fullness of all knowledge? Why should humans or angels for that matter be kept in the dark, kept ignorant, suppressed? It's a wicked thing to do. It's all about the heirarchy. It always is. Entities vying for power at the expense of everyone else.

Would you as a human create a handy tool to get a job done and still keep it after it broke

How could a perfect god create a tool that breaks? Think that through. If you design a cat (as cats are as we know them) and that cat jumps on a mouse and kills it, who is at fault? Is the cat evil for killing a mouse, or is it just doing what it has been designed to do? If the latter then it is the cat designer that is at fault, not the cat.

Would you like to live eternally as an immortal with despots like Hitler or etc? Somehow I don't think you would. I think God knows best how to do good things.

Despots like Hitler only exist in the first place because we are all stuck in this prison planet with limited resources and have to fight and jostle for our own survival. That's on god. If god had given us the Elixir of Life, The Philosopher's Stone, which Jesus had then we would have no wants. We would all live in harmony wanting nothing. It is the direct consequence of god's wilful removal of that Stone from humanity that we are all left to fight, suffer endlessly, decay and die. God took this from us. No-one else. Some fortunate souls have since discovered it in their lifetimes through long diligent study and experimentation. Only a very few. For narrow is the gate and few there are that find it. The rest are left to suffer and die.

I am very sad to hear how life is going for you. Honestly. I understand life is tough. Hang in ...

No idea what you are talking about. I am very comfortable. Retired very early, escaped religious indoctrination, have no real wants or needs.

I do get it. You seem to believe there is a Creator ... shouldn't the one who created us know what is best.

No you don't get it unfortunately. There is a universal life source that pervades everything. That is "god" not some ridiculous fictional religious psychological machination.

He gave us The TEN so that things would go better for us in this world.

Moses created the TEN as a way to try and make people conform and behave the way he felt they should. His system of control.

He even added health practices to protect our bodies. Example: Sexual sin, he told us, is a sin against one's own body. Poor hygiene and gluttony lead to sickness. He knows we suffer but he hasn't finished waiting on his children to be born so he can bless them ... therefore we suffer because of one man Adam [male/female] but we are saved by one man- our Lord and Savior Jesus.

Religious nonsense. You're reading the Bible incorrectly. We suffer because we don't have enough life energy coming into our bodies. Whatever you eatin this Earthly world won't stop you ageing and dying except of course the White and Red Stones. When you are newly born your body is fizzing with this life-energy gained from your mother. As a young child you can go out and play in the cold snow in a t-shirt and not feel the extreme effects of the cold whilst your parents have to wrap up in numerous layers of jumpers and scarves. THAT is life-energy. That's what it does. Humans need this energy. But around age 30 we lose that ability to attract that energy into our bodies. From that point we are effectively running on batteries, daily using up what life-energy still remains in us until that runs down and we die. If we could keep bringing in that life-energy (like being plugged back into the mains supply) then we would live indiefinitely and in perfect health.

You suffer because you don't have the White and Red Stones of alchemy which facilitate the transfer of this life-energy that is all around us, into your body. That's why Jesus said:

John 6:53-58: "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."

The Flesh is allegorically the White Stone of alchemy
The Blood is allegorically the Red Stone of alchemy


Revelation 2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

It's all there hidden in plain sight for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.

I know you are exhausted from reading my post ... I am so full of words ... but I am a woman! I wish you the best.

I wish you the best too. Listen to your mind, it is screaming in the background to be let loose from the shackles you have allowed to be placed on it. Free your mind. Everything else will follow naturally after that.

Lean on Jesus as your Savior ... he / his spirit in us will answer your questions like he has mine. Learn to hear his voice. I have to remind myself of that constantly.

Your questions will only be answered once you free yourself to be able to ask the right questions.

 

[Ps82]

But mankind was already in such a place but your god decided to throw us out. He seems mightily confused for a god. If he wants us to live without strife and sickness he can make it so in an instant. Yet he doesn't. I'm afraid your religious indoctrination is very deep, and I say this most sincerely for I have been where you are. You're not ready to exercise sharp critical thinking and be hinest with yourself. You're still at the point where you will make any excuse for your god's inactions and questionable traits.

Just time to comment on this paragraph.
Yes, mankind was in a great place ... and God had on asked two things:
1. Multiply and reproduce
Stay away from the knowledge of good and evil. Seems that should have been simple, but free will has two sides.

Obey and thrive. Disobey and suffer something called death as well as having a heart of some good and some evil.

God didn't force them to partake of that forbidden knowledge. Satan tempted ... and because mankind made the bad choice it was by one mankind/Adam that we all suffer today. Yet, God was ready to make the WAY to return to a life of wonderful things.

But there was something not completed in God's plan. The command to multiply and reproduce ... so God made death a process over time because birthing babies was a process over time. In God's perfected kingdom, mankind will be like the angels, with no reproducing; therefore we are left to fulfill our first purpose until God has all the children he wants and all that are going to choose him.

We endure long-suffering because we are now mortal vulnerable to all sorts of things that can and will ultimately take our first life. We also suffer because people all around us and even we do evil things. IF God had ended the processes of birthing and dying. You would not be here. Think about that.

Yet Jesus told us: I am the WAY, The Truth, and the LIFE.

I interpret it this way: I am the WAY [God provided for mankind to inherit a place in God's kingdom].
I am The Truth [believe and trust God's promise of salvation]. I am the [Gift of] LIFE [eternal].

Arguing for your sake (I don't believe for one second that your god exists, god is something quite different to what you have been programmed to believe)

Believe me and a few other on TOL ... I am not programmed. LOL

He gave them Hobson's choice which is no real choice at all. The ability to worship is not the free choice whether to worship. There is no free choice in this matter. If I hold a gun to your partner's head and say "you have a free choice, you can pay me £1000 or I will shoot your partner", only a brainwashed sheep would consider that to be a real free choice. It's no choice at all. If your god does likewise by saying worship me or else you're going into hell or some other facile concept of fear mongering nonsense then that's not a free choice.

A free choice is and can only be "worship me or don't, free choice and there's no punishment for not worshipping me"

Such doesn't exist in the Christian world. Wake up, you're entranced in the spell.

IF I am wrong... I have nothing to loose. If I believe I have lots to gain in this life and the next.
Whether you grab the chance at the prize or not is your choice.

The tree was not evil. The tree in the story simply bestowed one with the knowledge of good and evil. It gave a person knowledge of reality which dispells the illusion that Adam and Eve were otherwise entranced in. Prior to eating from the tree they were ignorant, kept (deliberately) in the dark by your god. God knew that they were naked but didn't allow them to know this. What does that say about him?
If a set of parents today raised their kids in a totally locked up environment away from society, TV, radio, external feeds and taught them nothing about clothes so that they were naked all their lives, society and our judicial system would likely prosecute the parents for gross exploitation and abuse of the children. It would be a wicked thing to do.

Why shouldn't Adam and Eve know what god knows? Why shouldn't all entities be equal?

I believe the tree represented a kingdom because different prophets often spoke of trees and interpreted them as kings and kingdoms. Even Jesus is considered The Tree of Life and believers understand he is promised a kingdom of his own.

Symbolically, the Tree in the Garden represented the knowledge found in Satan's kingdom: lies, hatred, jealously, envy, rebellion - evil things. Woman and Adam may or may not have fully understood what they were getting into, but they couldn't say that God did not warn them of consequences. They rebelled.

Evil is a human construct. A societal machination. The universe has no concept of good or bad, it just is. Somewhere out there in space a star is going supernova and is destroying all the planets in that system and thus all life in that system. There's no right or wrong, no good or bad. It's just how the universe is.




You're still locked into classic Christian indoctrination. None of this stuff is true. Read Genesis again. Taking the story literally for your sake (because its allegorical not literal).

I disagree.

God said explicitly, if you eat of the tree of good and evil you will die that same day.

Nope. The LORD did not say that... regarding die the same day.

The snake told Adam and Eve that they would not die but would instead know what god knows about good and evil.

Who was the liar here? Be honest.

Satan -obviously .... for we die.

The snake told the truth for as soon as they ate they indeed DID NOT DIE and gained that knowledge.

We die from the moment we are born. These days some innocents don't make it to that point. We are all dead / dying from conception.

God lied. Plain and simple. It was a lie deliberately given to try and keep them from eating from the tree but a lie nonetheless.
After eating from the tree Adam and Eve went on to walk around the garden, they found fig leaves and covered themselves with them, they spoke with god and then after he cruelly banished them to the prison of Earth Adam went on to live 930 yrs had plenty of sex and spawned a large family. Pretty good for a dead guy eh? This is plain text in the Bible. Yet being religiously indoctrinated you have no choice but to concoct some kind of excuse for this terrible discrepency in Genesis. How can god lie?

Don't bother posting the excuses. I've heard them all before. They are wide and far reaching. They include absurdities like, "Adam didn't really die, not physically, but he did die spiritually", and "Adam did die instantly but then God created a 2nd copy of Adam, that's the difference between Adam and Adama" and so on. The plain FACT from that story (when taken literally which is incorrect) is that Adam did not die. Black and white. He lived, went on to live 930 years. So in the story, god lied.

Any need you feel to try and apologise for that uncomfortable part of the story is your religious indoctrination kicking it. You will search and search for an excuse, but your intelligent critical thinking mind will always think and know that something is not right. Either the story is not true (which is the real answer, it's all allegorical) or god isn't the entity you have been taught he is. He's neither all-powerful or all-loving or all-knowing.
It doesn't really matter much which conclusion you reach. What matters more than anything is that you are honest with yourself and allow your intelligent mind to run its course for otherwise you are living a lie, deceiving yourself for the sake of comfortable indoctrination.



How lovely. What kind of tyrant creates such a place and designs such suffering and punishment?!! Do you seriously think an all-loving entity would ever concoct such punishments? Do you think loving parents of children would ruthlessly discipline them by saying "do this otherwise I'm going to throw you into a tub of burning petrol"? Think it through. Something is massively off with what you have been taught.



Though you don't yet realise it, your comments there show plainly how your intelligent mind wrestles with the religious indoctrination. The mind knows fact from fiction. Your mind is exercising critical thinking quite naturally. It is questioning how any entity can be deemed good and loving if it creates such awful places of suffering and torture. Your mind is quite right to question this. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Listen to that mind. Have the courage to do so. Be sincere and honest with yourself for only you can rescue yourself from the shackles that you have allowed to be placed on your hands and feet and mind. Don't try to make excuses for the situation as you did there. Just see that it's complete nonsense, a total fiction and do not fear it. If your god is loving and understanding he WILL absolutely 100% expect that you will have doubts and want to question things so don't be afraid to do so. Even to the point of coming to the conclusion that he doesn't exist (in the sense that religion has programmed you with) and that god is in fact something very different.


Well he wouldnt if he were a jealous powermad entity of course. He would want all the knowledge and power for himself.
But tell me, if you had a cure for cancer today, would you not go out and immediately share that knowledge with all mankind to end their suffering? Of course you would. It would be the loving thing to do. A despot would bottle it, keep it from others and seek to gain power from that advantage. Why shouldn't everyone share the fullness of all knowledge? Why should humans or angels for that matter be kept in the dark, kept ignorant, suppressed? It's a wicked thing to do. It's all about the heirarchy. It always is. Entities vying for power at the expense of everyone else.



How could a perfect god create a tool that breaks? Think that through. If you design a cat (as cats are as we know them) and that cat jumps on a mouse and kills it, who is at fault? Is the cat evil for killing a mouse, or is it just doing what it has been designed to do? If the latter then it is the cat designer that is at fault, not the cat.




Despots like Hitler only exist in the first place because we are all stuck in this prison planet with limited resources and have to fight and jostle for our own survival. That's on god. If god had given us the Elixir of Life, The Philosopher's Stone, which Jesus had then we would have no wants. We would all live in harmony wanting nothing. It is the direct consequence of god's wilful removal of that Stone from humanity that we are all left to fight, suffer endlessly, decay and die. God took this from us. No-one else. Some fortunate souls have since discovered it in their lifetimes through long diligent study and experimentation. Only a very few. For narrow is the gate and few there are that find it. The rest are left to suffer and die.




No idea what you are talking about. I am very comfortable. Retired very early, escaped religious indoctrination, have no real wants or needs.



No you don't get it unfortunately. There is a universal life source that pervades everything. That is "god" not some ridiculous fictional religious psychological machination.


Moses created the TEN as a way to try and make people conform and behave the way he felt they should. His system of control.


Religious nonsense. You're reading the Bible incorrectly. We suffer because we don't have enough life energy coming into our bodies. Whatever you eatin this Earthly world won't stop you ageing and dying except of course the White and Red Stones. When you are newly born your body is fizzing with this life-energy gained from your mother. As a young child you can go out and play in the cold snow in a t-shirt and not feel the extreme effects of the cold whilst your parents have to wrap up in numerous layers of jumpers and scarves. THAT is life-energy. That's what it does. Humans need this energy. But around age 30 we lose that ability to attract that energy into our bodies. From that point we are effectively running on batteries, daily using up what life-energy still remains in us until that runs down and we die. If we could keep bringing in that life-energy (like being plugged back into the mains supply) then we would live indiefinitely and in perfect health.

You suffer because you don't have the White and Red Stones of alchemy which facilitate the transfer of this life-energy that is all around us, into your body. That's why Jesus said:

John 6:53-58: "Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him."

The Flesh is allegorically the White Stone of alchemy
The Blood is allegorically the Red Stone of alchemy


Revelation 2:17: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it."

It's all there hidden in plain sight for those with eyes to see and ears to hear.




I wish you the best too. Listen to your mind, it is screaming in the background to be let loose from the shackles you have allowed to be placed on it. Free your mind. Everything else will follow naturally after that.



Your questions will only be answered once you free yourself to be able to ask the right questions.

I can tell you are tired of our conversation ... You don't want any more excuses ... and I assume no more opinions; so I wish you well in this life. See you around TOL with another topic.