An open challenge to all closed theists

[1Way]

Lee and anyone unwilling to oppose open lying – Consider the following.

1Co 3:8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

I don’t want to see Lee or any closed theist, or any Christian for that matter, suffer unnecessary loss for the way you lived your life. Build upon the foundation rightly, and with careful biblical conformity, not biblical contradiction and dishonesty.

As to personal Christ like accountability, maybe some of you need to consider the following.

Ro 14:16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;

That is one comprehensive and clear common sense moral teaching. It is not good, it is evil to lie against scripture. And

Eph 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit [is] in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10 finding out what is acceptable to the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

I was not harsh and mocking upon the early observations of your dishonesty, I was plain and precise. And it was not until long after you have determined to not even respond to the entire issue that I began to add the additional offense of not submitting to Christian accountability.

If a person’s word can not be trusted as truthful on a simple issue like explaining what scripture says, you have served to undermine your otherwise Christian witness and personal reputation, and I don’t want to see that happen either. Lee, I don’t know you very well, but if you had children, would you expect anything less than them making amends for mishandling the truth of a matter? If you expect for others to treat you with respect and integrity, then being honest is not optional.

We all make mistakes, and that is common. But it matter greatly how we respond to them.

Pr 9:8 Do not correct a scoffer, lest he hate you; Rebuke a wise man, and he will love you.
Pr 27:5 Open rebuke is better Than love carefully concealed.
Re 3:19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent.

Don’t resist the truth, submit yourself to it.

 

[1Way]

Lee – You said

(1) This is a misunderstanding, though, I did address this, but maybe I missed your reply again. I mean that "overthrow" meant "destruction" while the Ninevites were unrepentant, and "repentance" after they repented.

(2) I think I'm satisfied that it's not possible to maintain that God intended to destroy the Ninevites, there are just too many difficulties with this interpretation.

(1) No misunderstanding, God qualified the overthrow as being:

• allowed to be understood as being “lethal”
• a “national disaster” to be “brought upon” them
• directly correlating to God’s judgment of “hatred” and intention to do “harm”

And God did that AFTER they repented about His prophesy of national overthrow, so all bases are clearly covered by the truth from God that you reject for your manmade false traditions.

(2) You have not presented one single argument from the text to remotely support that view. Talk about stretching the truth here. God said that He did not bring the “disaster”, you know, the one with perishing connotations, the one from His anger and intention of doing harm! He did not bring that disaster which He said He would bring upon them, and He did not do it.

For you to say that you are satisfied that it is not possible to maintain that God had intended to do what He plainly said He would do, is utter contradiction and rejection of God’s word on the matter. You can not honestly repent and not do what you honestly said you were honestly going to do, and were "honestly" never going to do it. That is complete dishonest and constant contradiction. But such is the nature of the closed view!

So dishonesty is at the heart of your belief system just like I reluctantly noted it might be.

YOU hope I will change MY approach to these discussions!?! Wow, that is rich. I’m not a false accuser; the fact remains recorded what happened, I quoted you exactly and made my objections clear from the get go with only a sincere desire that the offenses be remedied and you have done nothing to make amends for your actions.

 

[1Way]

Everyone, wow, I can’t believe it. Lee, representing the closed theist viewpoint, is resting his case on the idea that it’s ok to do the following.

• To (honestly) know in advance that you will absolutely not bring a disastrous overthrow upon the nation in 40 days.
  
• Yet(!!!) (honestly!?!) say you will do that (which is an unavoidable lie!!!), even though you (honestly) know you absolutely will not do that.
  
• Then (honestly!?!) say that you repented from doing what you said you would (honestly!?!) do, emphasizing the reversal of your intended actions by saying plainly that you (honestly) did not do it, thus maintaining that “carrying out the disaster” (doing it) was (honestly!?!) what you originally had in mind (but did not DO).
  
• And at the same time and in the same relationship, honestly(!?!?!?!?!?!?!) maintain that you never honestly intended on bringing the disaster upon the nation in the first place!!! You know, the same one that you honestly said you would bring upon them and that you ended up not bringing it upon them after all, because the situation and case of the matter changed.

OUTSTANDING! EXCELLENT! Closed theism is exposed for being dishonest in the highest degree.

 

[1Way]

:wave: arty:

:bannana: :thumb: :juggle: :drum:
PARTY!!! Finally the truth comes out, :idea:
the closed view is basically dishonest :readthis:
via their own core beliefs which are
founded upon lies against scripture. :joker:
:devil: :guitar: :jump: :dunce:

:BRAVO: :chuckle:

 

[1Way]

As to my alleged “anger”, it is good to note that it’s right to be angry and not sin (Eph 4:26). Really though, I’m not angry, I’m in righteous opposition because of my non-hypocritical love (Rom 12:9) to so much violence against God’s word (see below), in particular because of purposeful efforts to void scripture of meaning by maintaining the closed view (man’s tradition) against scripture. Consider this from my 3rd post for more on why it is really “bad” to violate scripture.

*******NOTICE*******
THIS IS THE BIBLE’S
“VOIDING OF SCRIPTURE”
***CONDEMNATIONS****


Quote



X Xxx – I will keep reflecting God’s word to you or whoever I please, because praise God His word never returns void, let alone goes out void, you are frustrated and (arguably) self condemned for voiding scripture of meaning and replacing that meaning with nothing. Here’s more of God’s authoritative word.

• We should always trust, not correct/overturn God’s word.
  

  Pr 30:5 Every word of God [is] pure; He [is] a shield to those who put their trust in Him. 6 Do not add to His words, Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

  God’s word never returns void.

  Isa 55:11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper [in the thing] for which I sent it.

  In vain worship and incredulous hypocrisy, men void God’s word of it’s divinely given meaning and authority.

  Mt 15:6 ‘then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 "Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: 8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, And honor Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’"

  Ultimately man must submit to God’s word.

  Ro 3:4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: "That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged."

You don’t have to listen to me, but you do have to obey God if you want to please Him. Maybe you reject these as not being literal also.



End quote



As you can see, it is really “bad” to make void the meaning from scripture.

Stop violence against the bible, stop closed theism!

 

[God_Is_Truth]

Stop violence against the bible, stop closed theism!

good luck on getting that to happen.

 

[1Way]

Thanks GIT. Sounds nice though, doesn't it? Sort of like stop murder and malice, create world peace! Just as I expect that sin will not cease before judgment day, so also I expect manmade false doctrine to continue as well.

But more importantly than focusing on the offenders, the righteous should not stop fighting just because we don’t like the odds. Do right, and risk the consequences. :thumb:



So what is the score so far for the challenge of this thread?!?!?



The number of closed theists who have stepped forward to supposedly make an attempt to answer the Closed theist bible conformity challenge:

Many have tried.

And none have come even close to presenting an answer to the challenge, they are that terrified of the parts of scripture that denies their view.

 

[smaller]

NEWSFLASH!

GOD does REPENT/CHANGES, but ONLY if the circumstances of the questions suit 1Way. God must get 1Way's PERMISSION SLIP...go figure...

If the Calvies were paying attention to your nonsense they would be using your GOD REPENTS/CHANGES notion to crucify EVERY DOCTRINE...

After all under your premise it IS entirely possible that God could, you know, change His Mind about ANYthing. Kinda like you in fact. Imagine that?

enjoy!

smaller

 

[Z Man]

1Way,

You need to be banned from this website. I've seen Knight ban others before who have never done anything as horrible as you.
The behavior and attitude you have towards other fellow Christians is far more offensive than anyone else have ever displayed that I've seen Knight ban before. I'd ban you in a heartbeat for your stupid irrational angry outlashes, your hypocrisy, slandering, lying, religious dogma, and "I'm-better-than-everyone-else" attitude against your fellow brethren in Christ.

You are definitly not a Christian my friend, because Christians do not tear down each other or try and destroy their fellow brethren in the Lord with their wicked tounges, as you so eagerly do. You do not wish for peace or love for others; your desire is not for them to know what you believe to be the TRUTH. Nope; your intent rather, is to glorify your self-proclaimed intelligence of whatever it is you think you know about the Bible and the Christian faith. You are so insecure about your salvation and everything that you believe in, that you have to look down upon others and "boast" in your "ways" so it'll make you feel more like a Christian. The more you think you know about God and the Bible and are able to tell others what you know, the more "Christian" you feel - it makes you feel that God loves you more. Pitiful, really. You need help. You need grace.

Instead of lashing out and showing such animosity against other Christians, why don't you try to uplift and encourage and express your OPINIONS with love and humilty, in a Christian manner? I mean, I know this is a debate site and all, but you take it too far, especially against your fellow breathren in Christ. If Knight has banned others for their offensive and childish behavior, I see no reason why you shouldn't receive the same.


Luke 9:49-50
Now John answered and said, "Master, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow with us." But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."

 

[Yorzhik]

I did puruse the thread again to find where you answered the challenge. I didn't see it.

Z, so did you ever try to answer the challenge, and can you link to the post in the thread where you did it?

I am “only” interested in what you think the passage “does” mean, specifically concerning divine repentance/”nacham” from doing what He said and or thought He would do.

These concerned the passages:

Jon 3:10 Then God saw their works,
that they turned from their evil way;
and God relented from the disaster
that He had said He would bring upon them,
and He did not do it.

and Jer 18.

 

[Z Man]

You didn't look hard enough. I didn't respond to his questions in this thread, because I already gave a thorough answer in the original thread. He's too stubborn and ignorant to realize that that was my answer. His pride has blinded him and closed his mind to any new knowledge that God may try to instill in his brain.

 

[Yorzhik]

Then could you point to your answer in the other thread?

 

[Z Man]

Again, here it is. That's not the only post, however. If you continue to read his responses, you'll notice he totally ignores my answers and continues to ask the same question over and over again, no matter what I say to him. Debating with 1Way is like talking to a wall; it's pointless and does more harm than good.

 

[Yorzhik]

Thanks for the link.

So if I read correctly, you are saying that "repent"/"relent" is not a word of change. That when it is said of someone that thay "repented"/"relented" that they do not change. Or is is that "repent"/"relent" can mean that whoever "repents"/"relents" that sometimes it means they change and sometimes they do not.

Was that the whole thrust of your argument when you said "the [Jonah passage] means exactly what it says?

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Yorzhik

Thanks for the link.

So if I read correctly, you are saying that "repent"/"relent" is not a word of change. That when it is said of someone that thay "repented"/"relented" that they do not change. Or is is that "repent"/"relent" can mean that whoever "repents"/"relents" that sometimes it means they change and sometimes they do not.

Was that the whole thrust of your argument when you said "the [Jonah passage] means exactly what it says?

I'm not exactly sure that I understand what your question is....

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by Z Man

I'm not exactly sure that I understand what your question is....

I think he's asking, "Does repentence require a change of some sort?"

Sorry Yorzhik, I couldn't resist throwing that in, I'll go back to just sitting back and watching this thread now.

Resting in Him,
Clete

 

[Yorzhik]

Go ahead and help me be more clear... obviously I cannot do it on my own.

 

[Z Man]

Originally posted by Clete Pfeiffer

Does repentence require a change of some sort?

Sure.

 

[1Way]

Clete – And others - I think that Yorzhik does not have in mind, any change, from anywhere, from anyone. The issue at hand is more focused than that.

Is repentance possible without the repentant person changing in some meaningful way?

 

[Clete]

Originally posted by 1Way

Clete – And others - I think that Yorzhik does not have in mind, any change, from anywhere, from anyone. The issue at hand is more focused than that.

Is repentance possible without the repentant person changing in some meaningful way?

All right then, for the sake of clarity...

Z Man,

When God repented/relented, as the Bible repeatedly says, did He change in anyway whatsoever?

Resting in Him,
Clete