An Introduction

[cattyfan]

Oooh, ouch. I'll remember that church volunteers don't rank highly in catty's book.

Incorrect, Granite. Volunteers are the backbone of the church. But they are not the same as the pastor. For example, I'm a volunteer...I serve on the church council, I teach the confirmands, and I help with the mission work. But that isn't in the same league with my husband, who has dedicated his life to serving Christ. The work he does (and the compassion he has) is something I can only admire. That is his life...his calling. He spends everyday counseling people...visiting shut-ins...helping those who come in off the street...and studying God's Word (in the original languages.)

So I value the volunteers, and respect their work...but I don't hold them in the same esteem as I hold the pastors.

 

[Granite]

If you had a shred of humility you would not have made a post like this. True servants of Christ never boast in what they've done and lord it over people. When you boast about your accomplishments you devalue them and come off as a condescending jerk.

Well considering he's an agnostic these days I wouldn't call him a servant of Christ...

It's a catch-22 though: actually demonstrate you put your money where your mouth is and you can come off as arrogant, keep your peace and people accuse you of never actually doing a thing.

 

[cattyfan]

And by the way - I still do all of these things for the poor and the needy because its right and because I do love people not because your God says I should.

God doesn't say we have to...it is our love for God and respect for all He's made that makes us WANT to help others. Our salvation doesn't hinge on our works. Our salvation is in our belief in Christ.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Random -

I'm not a Christian - and obviously you haven't ready the three pages of smack this women has said about me.

And you have nothing to say about the boastfulness of Mrs. Catty? Hmmm... Christians always defend one another unless of course they're eating one another...

And yes...I am a jerk - to people such as yourself. To many others I am a friend...

 

[cattyfan]

If you had a shred of humility you would not have made a post like this. True servants of Christ never boast in what they've done and lord it over people. When you boast about your accomplishments you devalue them and come off as a condescending jerk.

Bingo.

And this is what set my teeth on edge about his first post. Instead of joining this forum, and displaying his self-proclaimed brilliance via his posts and the resulting discussions, he felt the need to promote himself as being a "well-educated former pastor."

 

[Granite]

Incorrect, Granite. Volunteers are the backbone of the church. But they are not the same as the pastor. For example, I'm a volunteer...I serve on the church council, I teach the confirmands, and I help with the mission work. But that isn't in the same league with my husband, who has dedicated his life to serving Christ. The work he does (and the compassion he has) is something I can only admire. That is his life...his calling. He spends everyday counseling people...visiting shut-ins...helping those who come in off the street...and studying God's Word (in the original languages.)

So I value the volunteers, and respect their work...but I don't hold them in the same esteem as I hold the pastors.

It seems your definition of the word versus Chris's differs, but various pastors in various churches fill different roles, which you know full well. There were plenty of "pastors" and "assistant ministers" I've known in my time, most of whom didn't know the Greek alphabet, much less what direction Aramaic's written and read in...but "pastors" they were called, and "pastors" they were. You know full well the variety and different structure and organization of Protestant churches.

Chris left, which consistently angers and threatens a few people on TOL. You're ripping into him because he left the faith. I've seen this reaction before, just never from you. Reminds me of a bunch of chickens pecking one of their own to death.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Love isn't a Christian thing - its a God thing. I can serve God and not serve your Christ. Jews do it, Muslims do it, Buddhists do it and people all over the world do it...

I only spoke about what I have done because apparently my word in the beginning wasn't good enough. And my education wasn't educated enough, and my humility wasn't humble enough....

And you wonder why people run from people that go to church...

 

[ChrisGergen]

Thank you Granite...

 

[Granite]

Love isn't a Christian thing - its a God thing. I can serve God and not serve your Christ. Jews do it, Muslims do it, Buddhists do it and people all over the world do it...

I only spoke about what I have done because apparently my word in the beginning wasn't good enough. And my education wasn't educated enough, and my humility wasn't humble enough....

And you wonder why people run from people that go to church...

You made the mistake of trying to explain you knew what you were talking about and didn't make an ill-informed decision by leaving the faith.

 

[Random]

Well considering he's an agnostic these days I wouldn't call him a servant of Christ...

Ah, I didn't see the part where his affiliation had changed. That's interesting...

It's a catch-22 though: actually demonstrate you put your money where your mouth is and you can come off as arrogant, keep your peace and people accuse you of never actually doing a thing.

Too true. However, real heroes never boast about their actions and do not care if their deeds have gone unnoticed.

 

[chair]

Love isn't a Christian thing - its a God thing. I can serve God and not serve your Christ. Jews do it, Muslims do it, Buddhists do it and people all over the world do it...

I only spoke about what I have done because apparently my word in the beginning wasn't good enough. And my education wasn't educated enough, and my humility wasn't humble enough....

And you wonder why people run from people that go to church...

Well, I am not interested in the bashing game that is going on here. I am interested in how well you know Greek, and especially Hebrew.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Chair, I am learning Hebrew. Rudiments really at this point. I am working with a Jewish man I know here in town to learn more and to become proficient. I run things through him to make sure I am understanding properly. Greek, I can do OK with, by no means can I read and write ancient Greek - but I can still get around OK.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Random, you're right. I should not have boasted about those things...I was trying to get Catty off of my back. My lack of self-control is mine alone - provoked or not...

 

[cattyfan]

I am not "threatened" by his abandoning his faith in Christ. I'm saddened that he has turned his back on salvation...but given his enthusiasm for his own accomplishments, it's no surprise.

I was (and still am) annoyed by his misrepresentation of himself, and by his utter lack of humility.

However...I will let this go, and wait to see how he aquits himself within the actual discussions on this board.

 

[Random]

Random -

I'm not a Christian

Yes, I apologize for mislabeling you. For some reason I missed the part where you said your views have changed. Again, I apologize.

- and obviously you haven't ready the three pages of smack this women has said about me.

Actually I saw a great deal of what she said. What's the problem? You came off as very arrogant in your first post.

And you have nothing to say about the boastfulness of Mrs. Catty? Hmmm... Christians always defend one another unless of course they're eating one another...

Cattyfan isn't the one saying things like:

How many people have you fed?

How many drunks have you counseled?

How many prostitutes have you pulled out of the rain?

How many children have you housed because their parents were drug addicts?

That's incredibly arrogant.

And yes...I am a jerk - to people such as yourself. To many others I am a friend...

Okay then...

 

[cattyfan]

I will point out...Chris, you need to read the rules of the site. You reported a post that doesn't violate any rules. If the post had, in fact, violated a rule, I (as a moderator on this site) would be sure to issue myself a warning.

 

[ChrisGergen]

Why don't you just leave me alone and mind your own business. You can keep your Christ and keep your salvation. If it means I have to be anything like you, I'd rather crawl into hell on my own.

My posts here about subjects of merit will be well thought out...

And by the way, you never did answer my question - How many people have you actually reached out helped - or have you just sat on the pew and criticized like most board members do?

 

[ChrisGergen]

No you probably wouldn't - you don't have the integrity do a thing like that...

 

[Random]

Random, you're right. I should not have boasted about those things...I was trying to get Catty off of my back. My lack of self-control is mine alone - provoked or not...

I'm glad you admitted that. Sometimes it's best just to walk away from the computer and take a breather when we get overwhelmed or angry.

 

[cattyfan]

Why don't you just leave me alone and mind your own business. You can keep your Christ and keep your salvation. If it means I have to be anything like you, I'd rather crawl into hell on my own.

My posts here about subjects of merit will be well thought out...

And by the way, you never did answer my question - How many people have you actually reached out helped - or have you just sat on the pew and criticized like most board members do?

I didn't answer your question because I (unlike you) don't like to list the things I've done. But I volunteer taught in an inner city school for several years...I've sat with the dying and the elderly...counseled the confused, the grieving, the drug addicted, women in prison...I've given time and money to dozens of charities...I'm sure my "resume of good deeds" is plenty long. But I'm not in the habit of keeping score.