An excerpt from the original Pilgrims in the Plymoth colony.
- Thread starter Nick M
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Paul says stop doing evil things. Paul says not to even be friends or eat with such people. He also says you sinned against God and deserve to go to hell. He also says even those that didn't are dead because of what Adam did. But now, because of what the Lord Jesus Christ did, we can be saved.
dMore, from the ending. It is a short read, but much of it is things in the colony.
Again, these are points from Paul.
7 Now I pray to God that you do no evil, not that we should appear approved, but that you should do what is honorable, though we may seem disqualified.
Do not do evil, or you will seem to be disqualified. KJV calls it reprobates. But you get the idea. You don't tell them your behavior changed because you are Christian and it saves you. It doesn't. Do it because it is right.
Again, these are points from Paul.
7 Now I pray to God that you do no evil, not that we should appear approved, but that you should do what is honorable, though we may seem disqualified.
Do not do evil, or you will seem to be disqualified. KJV calls it reprobates. But you get the idea. You don't tell them your behavior changed because you are Christian and it saves you. It doesn't. Do it because it is right.
The Pilgrims were MAD Paul people, no wonder they are hated so much.
I always find it fascinating that if you go back even just a few hundred years, people wrote letters with much greater detail and verbosity than people of the last couple decades. Even letters from soldiers in the American Civil War contained far more to them than from letters from people today.
Actually the Pilgrims were Calvinists. They were originally known as Separatists.The Pilgrims were MAD Paul people, no wonder they are hated so much.
Here's an excerpt from a book, The Pilgrim Fathers of New England, written by a guy by the name of Carlos Martyn on the Pilgrims which was published in 1867. It's available through the Gutenberg Project.
"The Protestant world was at this time divided between two regal phases of reform. “Luther’s rationale,” says Bancroft, “was based upon the sublime but simple truth which lies at the bottom of morals, the paramount value of character and purity of conscience; the superiority of right dispositions over ceremonial exactness; and, as he expressed it, ‘justification by faith alone.’ But he hesitated to deny the real presence, and was indifferent to the observance of external ceremonies. Calvin, with sterner dialectics, sanctioned by his power as the ablest writer of his age, attacked the Roman doctrines respecting the communion, and esteemed as a commemoration the rite which the papists reverenced as a sacrifice. Luther acknowledged princes as his protectors, and in the ceremonies of worship favored magnificence as an aid to devotion; Calvin was the guide of Swiss republics, and avoided in their churches all appeals to the senses as crimes against religion. Luther resisted the Roman church for its immorality; Calvin for its idolatry. Luther exposed the folly of superstition, ridiculed the hair-shirt and the scourge, the purchased indulgence, and the dearly-bought masses for the dead; Calvin shrunk from their criminality with impatient horror. Luther permitted the cross, the taper, pictures, images, as things of indifference; Calvin demanded a spiritual worship in its utmost purity.”[24]"
"The Separatists were ardent Calvinists. They esteemed the “offices and callings, courts and canons” of the English church “monuments of idolatry.” Those of the North of England, though “presently they were scoffed and scorned by the profane multitude, and their ministers urged with the yoke of subscription,” yet held “that the lordly power of the prelates ought not to be submitted to.”[25]"
That isn't possible unless the history posted is forgery. They are mutually exclusive. And John Calvin and many followers think a selected group is taken against their will and saved. They say that here even. They are saved because he wanted to save them, not because they accepted his reconciliation.
That's rather unlikely. I have read hundreds of Gutenberg Project's books and I've never run across a forgery. There are a lot of individuals involved in picking and editing their books and if one was a forgery someone would have discovered it.
One of them has to be. Or they aren't Calvinists. The author calling them that may also not understand the position either. Many self righteous "infidels" of the Acts 2 and RCC call Christians "Calvinists" when I point out Christianity is not a changed life, but an exchanged life. Saved by what he did on the cross.
One person against those who are very well read? Gutenberg's editors are those who love to read as they are all volunteers so I don't think so.
If you'd ever read Dubigne's volumes on the Reformation you would understand that they were as Calvin and those who followed him persecuted those who didn't agree with them. The Pilgrim's did the same as they had very strict laws in which their human laws persecuted those who didn't agree with their religious ideas.
Are you aware of the logical fallacy you committed right here. If you post a point, I will try to answer it. The claims are contradictory, one is wrong. I was having fun with it, you aren't. Oh well.
How was I to know? I'm posting on a forum where everyone disagrees with my positions And then you chide me for not realizing you're joking.
The whole thread was meant to be funny as that letter fits in with the topics here. We are saved by what he did, not what we do.