An Advocation of Government

[glassjester]

Probably any such democracy that's not a fit for his particular views.

Even still, which monarchy hasn't become wicked?

 

[quip]

Even still, which monarchy hasn't become wicked?

Good point

 

[JudgeRightly]

The USA was always wicked?

Or are you saying any democracy will eventually become wicked?

Any form of government where the majority rules will become wicked eventually, because the majority is wicked.

Guaranteed howso?

See the Bible verse I quoted above about the majority being on their way to Hell, whereas the minority is Heavenbound.

Even still, which monarchy hasn't become wicked?

Even the most wicked monarch never legalized murder. Here in America, we've legalized the worst kind of murder.

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[quip]

Any form of government where the majority rules will become wicked eventually, because the majority is wicked.

See the Bible verse I quoted above about the majority being on their way to Hell, whereas the minority is Heavenbound.

Even the most wicked monarch never legalized murder. Here in America, we've legalized the worst kind of murder.

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Is there a Christian version of an Ayatollah ..that seems to be the direction you're eluding to?

 

[Arthur Brain]

Any form of government where the majority rules will become wicked eventually, because the majority is wicked.

See the Bible verse I quoted above about the majority being on their way to Hell, whereas the minority is Heavenbound.

Even the most wicked monarch never legalized murder. Here in America, we've legalized the worst kind of murder.

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"Hell"? You think you won't end up in the 'grave' at some stage?

 

[JudgeRightly]

"Hell"? You think you won't end up in the 'grave' at some stage?

Yes, Hell, and eventually the Lake of Fire. the 'grave' is a physical place. Humans are spiritual creatures seated in physical bodies. Our bodies will eventually die and wither away, but our soul-spirit will live on after 'death,' which is nought but separation from the physical universe.

But that's a rabbit trail which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. So, if you could, please stay on topic.

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[Arthur Brain]

Yes, Hell, and eventually the Lake of Fire. the 'grave' is a physical place. Humans are spiritual creatures seated in physical bodies. Our bodies will eventually die and wither away, but our soul-spirit will live on after 'death,' which is nought but separation from the physical universe.

But that's a rabbit trail which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. So, if you could, please stay on topic.

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'Hell' translates as 'grave' but if you think the majority of humankind is bound for eternal torment of some sort then it would probably be a waste of time to continue anyway so I'll leave you to it...

lain:

 

[glassjester]

Even the most wicked monarch never legalized murder.

Sure they have. As long as the victims are undesirables.

 

[quip]

Sure they have. As long as the victims are undesirables.

You mean like JR's democratic majority? :think:

 

[glassjester]

You mean like JR's democratic majority? :think:

I'm saying there's been plenty of murderous tyrants throughout history.
To claim that no monarchy has ever allowed the murder of innocents is just plain false.

I do agree that the best possible form of government would be a good king. But where can we get one of those? And who's to say the next monarch wouldn't be a jerk? That's the trouble with monarchies.

 

[quip]

I'm saying there's been plenty of murderous tyrants throughout history.
To claim that no monarchy has ever allowed the murder of innocents is just plain false.

I do agree that the best possible form of government would be a good king. But where can we get one of those? And who's to say the next monarch wouldn't be a jerk? That's the trouble with monarchies.

Well,I was referring to JR's dangerous bivariate method of culling the wicked from the devout.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I'm saying there's been plenty of murderous tyrants throughout history.
To claim that no monarchy has ever allowed the murder of innocents is just plain false.

Good point. You're right. I should not have made that statement.

I do agree that the best possible form of government would be a good king. But where can we get one of those? And who's to say the next monarch wouldn't be a jerk? That's the trouble with monarchies.

Have you read Bob Enyart's "The First Five Days"? If not, I highly recommend it.
http://store.kgov.com/the-first-five-days-a-novel-by-bob-enyart-print-or-pdf-download/

Also, I'm currently asking Bob if I can share a proposed Constitution for such a monarchy. It answers how the succession process would work, quite clearly, I might add.

Basically, the first king upon the inauguration of the Constitution would be selected by lottery, overseen by the Queen, or if none, her eldest daughter, or if none, America's chief military leader. After the King's death, the throne would go to his oldest son.



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[JudgeRightly]

Is there a Christian version of an Ayatollah ..that seems to be the direction you're eluding to?

No, nor is it what I'm alluding to. The King would just be a king.

The citizens would have the right to worship whomever they chose.

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[quip]

No, nor is it what I'm alluding to. The King would just be a king.

The citizens would have the right to worship whomever they chose.

Is that actually the case?

I think it's time we really looked at what kind of government God wants. When we look at the Bible, we see that the only form of government God authorized (in both the Old and New Testament) is a Constitutional Monarchy.

What if one worships a God not presumed to desire a Constitutional Monarchy nor wrought from the Christian Bible - worst case - someone who refuses to worship at all?

How will thee fare within such a monarchy?

 

[JudgeRightly]

Is that actually the case?



What if one worships a God not presumed to desire a Constitutional Monarchy nor wrought from the Christian Bible - worst case - someone who refuses to worship at all?

How will thee fare within such a monarchy?

They can believe and say what they want, as everyone has the right to free speech. Doesn't mean that they'll get what they want.

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[quip]

They can believe and say what they want, as everyone has the right to free speech. Doesn't mean that they'll get what they want.

Not getting what they want....like the right to worship the god of their choosing?


The problem is that you presume to know what kind of government God desires, while from there it's not a huge leap in presuming how God's government would function...including but not limited to any rights to believe in a God contrary to the one holding government sway.

Seems you're fine with the idea of a religious monarchy as long as you're on the strong side of the power divide.

See any potential problems here?

 

[glassjester]

Basically, the first king upon the inauguration of the Constitution would be selected by lottery, overseen by the Queen, or if none, her eldest daughter, or if none, America's chief military leader. After the King's death, the throne would go to his oldest son.

Where and when has that system worked before?

And how is the virtue of that king in any way guaranteed?
Or that of the next king, or the next...

 

[JudgeRightly]

Not getting what they want....like the right to worship the god of their choosing?

Did I not say they had the freedom to worship? You specified that their god would perhaps not want a monarchy. That is what I was talking about when I said that they wouldn't necessarily get what they wanted. Your straw-man has been burned.

The problem is that you presume to know what kind of government God desires,

Deuteronomy 17, verse 14 through the end of the chapter.

while from there it's not a huge leap in presuming how God's government would function...including but not limited to any rights to believe in a God contrary to the one holding government sway.

The freedom to worship God or any god one chooses is a God-given right. It comes from the fact that He's not going to force us to be with Him for all of eternity if we don't want to be with Him.

Seems you're fine with the idea of a religious monarchy as long as you're on the strong side of the power divide.

See any potential problems here?

Once again, the King is just that, a King. Not a religious leader.

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[JudgeRightly]

Where and when has that system worked before?

And how is the virtue of that king in any way guaranteed?
Or that of the next king, or the next...

Here is the proposed Constitution for America:

COPYRIGHT Bob Enyart, Kgov.com

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[quip]

Did I not say they had the freedom to worship? You specified that their god would perhaps not want a monarchy. That is what I was talking about when I said that they wouldn't necessarily get what they wanted. Your straw-man has been burned.



Deuteronomy 17, verse 14 through the end of the chapter.



The freedom to worship God or any god one chooses is a God-given right. It comes from the fact that He's not going to force us to be with Him for all of eternity if we don't want to be with Him.



Once again, the King is just that, a King. Not a religious leader.

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"....no other God's before me." Is an unequivocal commandment...are religious monarchies precluded from such commandments?

I hope you see the obvious ideological conflict that would incur under such a scheme.

Tell me, would you enjoy living under the rule set by the Koran?