I had written:-
If you're seeking guidance from the Old Testament then you're seeking guidance from the wrong Testament.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
I say that to Christians, because the New Testament includes everything in Jesus's NEW COVENANT.
I'm not entirely sure where people like you and God's Truth get this idea in their heads that Jesus made a new covenant. It's just not Biblical.
There are only two covenants given from God to man in the Bible, and both were given in Genesis, by God, to Abram/Abraham.
The first one given was the Covenant of Grace, which is of faith only, when Abraham was still Abram. See Genesis 15.
The second covenant given was the Covenant of Law, which is of faith and works, and was when God put a part of himself into Abram's name, and changed his name to Abraham. See Genesis 17.
As soon as a Christian seeks to justify an action or opinion by quoting the Old Covenant, then that just tells the whole world that they don't really believe in what they claim to believe in.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
Now, if a true Christian seeks guidance from Jesus's Covenant they can find true Christian guidance.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
Like:- ROMANS 12:20 MATTHEW 5:40 MATTHEW 5:44 LUKE 6:29 LUKE 6:27 LUKE 6:35
Eider, are you a pacifist? Because those are the verses pacifists typically use to support their argument.
Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men.If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men.Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.Therefore “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; If he is thirsty, give him a drink; For in so doing you will heap coals of fire on his head.”Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good. - Romans 12:17-21
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans12:17-21&version=NKJV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also.And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two.Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away.“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect. - Matthew 5:38-48
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew5:38-48&version=NKJV
“But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you,bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you.To him who strikes you on the one cheek, offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak, do not withhold your tunic either.Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back.And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise.“But if you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them.And if you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same.And if you lend to those from whom you hope to receive back, what credit is that to you? For even sinners lend to sinners to receive as much back.But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil.Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful. - Luke 6:27-36
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke6:27-36&version=NKJV
And those who want to hide their bibles while they enjoy violent hatred, or point to Israelite wars to justify Christian actions:-
2 CORINTHIANS 13:5
This will be the third time I am coming to you. “By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”I have told you before, and foretell as if I were present the second time, and now being absent I write to those who have sinned before, and to all the rest, that if I come again I will not spare—since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.For though He was crucified in weakness, yet He lives by the power of God. For we also are weak in Him, but we shall live with Him by the power of God toward you.Examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Do you not know yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you are disqualified.But I trust that you will know that we are not disqualified. - 2 Corinthians 13:1-6
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Corinthians13:1-6&version=NKJV
I certainly don't "hide my Bible" when discussing things like this.
As far as "pointing to Israelite wars" to justify Christian actions, two points:
1. Christians as individuals do not have the right to take for themselves the responsibilities of the Government. (This is not saying that Christians cannot be in the government, only that as an individual they cannot act as the government does.)
2. And it came to pass in the days of Amraphel king of Shinar, Arioch king of Ellasar, Chedorlaomer king of Elam, and Tidal king of nations,that they made war with Bera king of Sodom, Birsha king of Gomorrah, Shinab king of Admah, Shemeber king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (that is, Zoar).All these joined together in the Valley of Siddim (that is, the Salt Sea).Twelve years they served Chedorlaomer, and in the thirteenth year they rebelled.In the fourteenth year Chedorlaomer and the kings that were with him came and attacked the Rephaim in Ashteroth Karnaim, the Zuzim in Ham, the Emim in Shaveh Kiriathaim,and the Horites in their mountain of Seir, as far as El Paran, which is by the wilderness.Then they turned back and came to En Mishpat (that is, Kadesh), and attacked all the country of the Amalekites, and also the Amorites who dwelt in Hazezon Tamar.And the king of Sodom, the king of Gomorrah, the king of Admah, the king of Zeboiim, and the king of Bela (that is, Zoar) went out and joined together in battle in the Valley of Siddimagainst Chedorlaomer king of Elam, Tidal king of nations, Amraphel king of Shinar, and Arioch king of Ellasar—four kings against five.Now the Valley of Siddim was full of asphalt pits; and the kings of Sodom and Gomorrah fled; some fell there, and the remainder fled to the mountains.Then they took all the goods of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their provisions, and went their way.They also took Lot, Abram’s brother’s son who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed.Then one who had escaped came and told Abram the Hebrew, for he dwelt by the terebinth trees of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol and brother of Aner; and they were allies with Abram.Now when Abram heard that his brother was taken captive, he armed his three hundred and eighteen trained servants who were born in his own house, and went in pursuit as far as Dan.He divided his forces against them by night, and he and his servants attacked them and pursued them as far as Hobah, which is north of Damascus.So he brought back all the goods, and also brought back his brother Lot and his goods, as well as the women and the people.And the king of Sodom went out to meet him at the Valley of Shaveh (that is, the King’s Valley), after his return from the defeat of Chedorlaomer and the kings who were with him. - Genesis 14:1-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis14:1-17&version=NKJV
^ Not Israel. Abram had a right to do what he did.
So there is justice in the New Covenant, but not hate filled violence.
Can justice be achieved through war? :think:
Wrong...... it's fundamentally different Faiths..... same God, or so each faith believes.
You apparently don't read very well, or else you would not have made that argument.
I said:
So it doesn't matter if the people of each faith believes that their God or god is the same as the other. If their holy book teaches something different than the other, then it means that they are not the same.
Here's another couple of key differences:
In the Bible, Jesus is shown to be the Son of God, God in the flesh, and the Messiah. It says that Jesus ascended into heaven after being put to death, buried, and raised from the dead on the third day.
However, in the Quran, He's just a "good man," and a prophet. It does say Jesus was taken into heaven, but it denies the claim that he was crucified, buried, and resurrected.
The Bible gives a way to falsify itself, and it's claim is exclusionary to ALL other religions, including Islam.
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. - 1 Corinthians 15:12-19
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians15:12-19&version=NKJV
If Christ has not risen, then our faith is in vain.
But then, shouldn't the opposite be true then?
If Christ
has risen, then any other faith other is in vain, meaning that all should repent and come to God.
There are many Christian Unitarians...
Of course there are. But the Bible (and therefore God) teaches a triune God, three in one.
Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar. As it is written: “That You may be justified in Your words, And may overcome when You are judged.” - Romans 3:4
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans3:4&version=NKJV
Yeah....... thus he carried forward some OT guidance, rules and laws, just as Jesus did.
So did Jesus ever quote from the Old Testament?
So you'd be best off by sticking to what Saint Paul quoted,
Are you, per chance, Catholic?
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
rather than tripping off to grab whatever non-Christian writings you fancy to justify your opinions, beliefs or actions.
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
When pushed to obey something in the OT you don't like, what do you say?....... you declare it's 'Old Covenant', don't you?
No, that's what you say. You say, "Don't use the Old Testament because it's not for us, and I don't like it."
However, I agree with Paul when he says:
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
A genuine Christian with integrity will stick to the New Covenant, surely?
There is no "New Covenant," there are only the two covenants given to Abram/Abraham in Genesis.
If you want to uise the OT as a guide, then that's your choice, but it can't be a Christian choice..... it can't!
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2Timothy3:16-17&version=NKJV
So how many Muslims did you ask about this, eh?
When you start telling folks what Muslims want, what Muslims will do., you know you've lost this particular debate..... easy as that.
Most Muslims wish to lead their lives in peace, in freedom, liberty and happiness.
Oh? So you're saying that Islam is a religion of peace?
thereligionofpeace.com
No, they don't. They don't base their lives upon three words out of the whole book.
They pick and choose what they want to follow out of their holy book, just like you do.
But it looks as if some Christians might want to use those three words to justify their own self righteous, violent, hate filled actions, possibly?
Let me quiz you on something real quick.
Was Israel, in the OT, under the law? or were they under grace?
Is the world (not including Christians), today, under law or under grace?
Are Christians under law or under grace?
..... Yes...... so why would we use tragedies from, say, 17 years ago to justify our feelings now?
Using your logic, we should just ignore God's destruction of the world through the Global Flood of Noah's day, because it happened a few millennia ago...
Right.
Most Muslim families are peaceful, non-violent households.
Then why don't they cry out to their imams to condemn those who are not peaceful? Why, when the planes hit the twin towers did the women and children dance in the streets, the women throwing out candy for the children, celebrating the blow against the US?
thereligionofpeace.com
How would you prefer Muslims to pray....... the way you do?
I would rather they repent of their pursuit of a false god and turn to their Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, Son of the living God.
That should be our format for our prayers to God.
Your generalised prejudice is horrendous.
And you seem to be prejudiced against Christians who defend good and hate evil.
Why not ask yourself, 'What would Jesus think and do?'
Why not ask, "What
did Jesus do?"
It is you who state their God is false - Not God.
Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty.Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise.For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. - 1 Corinthians 15:12-19
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1Corinthians15:12-19&version=NKJV
It has been proven by history that Christians are quite capable of doing murder (and other evil) in God's name.
Of course they are. And we can condemn them on the teachings of the very book they believe.
But you cannot condemn the Islamic extremists on the teachings of the Quran, because that's what the Quran teaches, for its followers to kill the infidels if they don't convert to Islam, or if they try to leave Islam.
Yep - And your point is???
My point is that if we love our neighbor, then we should warn them when they are doing something that will destroy them, and do everything we can to help them realize it.
You just don't follow what Jesus taught, which tells me everything that I need to know....
Did Jesus, during his ministry on the earth, teach law or grace? What do the four gospels teach overall?
Better to stop trawling the OT for passages which you think can justify your ideas, and read the writings in the NT, all clear as day.
Matthew {5:22} But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
:iduuno:
"Angry . . . without a cause"
Think about that for a moment.
There are circa 2,000,000 prisoners in the US and so some creep waits until a prison mosque is at prayers and takes a picture to inflame the minds of hateful bigots.
We shouldn't even have prisons, let alone prison mosques.
American soldiers ....... any soldiers, can go bonkers and do crazy things for many differing reasons. I could post up incidents of other US soldiers who have done similar things buit it's totally out of order to abuse such situations like you do.
You should do that, and while you're at it, check to see what their religious beliefs were when they committed the crimes. I can almost guarantee you that it's not Christianity or Judaism.
You're clearly very hate filled about Muslims, or just very scared.
I fear God more than I fear someone who does not know the living God.
I also hate evil, so that my love is without hypocrisy.
Oh.... Pathetic!
Jesus was readying himself before going into Jerusalem! His issue was with the hypocritical, greedy, unlawful, hellenised priresthood, which was fleecing the people bare as the price of redemption from sin, while they themselves followed Greek and other Gods. The Temple coins even had the head of Heracles-Melgarth upon their face....... known to the Jews as Baal.
You apparently don't know even the four gospels very well, let alone the New Testament, or you would have instantly recognized the passage quoted. Luke 22:36-38 is right before Jesus went to the garden before his crucifixion.
Jesus had a great cry, Hosea's own 'I will have mercy and not sacrifice'.
There is tghre background to your quotes, you just don't really know the true story.
You apparently didn't even bother to read the context of the passages quoted, and so your entire argument has nothing to do with what was said.
And so now you pretend that Jesus meant Muslims........ crooked argument, imo.
Again, your argument has nothing to do with what was said.
EDIT.... ADDITION:-
And when Cephas actually used one of those two swords, Jesus stopped him from continuing and healed the injured man. You just clutch at whatever you fancy to prove some totally wrong and unChristian opinion, imo.
Same as above.
This ain't good. None of it is good. If these phobic comments were made in public places they could even be construed as crimes...... 'Incitement to commit' crimes
What in the world are you talking about? See what happens when you don't know what you're talking about?
