The below scripture is not talking about an "apple seed".
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Let us read the scriptures about sin in Gen as adults and quit speaking about it as if it is a children's tale.
The adamah is the soil of the heart. The eretz is the outer bounds or badlands, the place to where Qain was driven out from the presence of the Lord, (the eretz is thus "the flesh"). It was the adamah-soil of Adam's own heart that he himself had caused to be cursed. The bringing forth of thorns and thistles and tares concerns the evils of the heart, (adamah-soil), which things are expounded in the parables of the Master and especially in the Parable of the Sower, (things hidden from the foundation of the world, Mat 13:35, Psa 78:2). Noah is the typology of immersion as Peter reveals, so then, first comes the tilling of the adamah-soil of the heart and the planting of the seed of the Word in the adamah-soil of the heart, then comes the washing of the body, (eretz), in the living water of the Word. If one "mortifies the members which are upon the eretz-land-earth" and washes in the water of the Word then indeed the same is immersing for the dead as Paul mentions in 1Cor 15:29, (those "members who sleep in Messiah"), whom the Master will raise up when he appears, ("quickening your mortal body" so that you and the members of your whole house-body-temple-household may serve in the kingdom wherein dwells righteousness, in a new heavens and a new earth).
Not so: for the first man-adam caused the darkness when he transgressed, (Gen 3).
Colossians 1:12-19
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, who enabled us to be partakers in the inheritance of the holy ones in light:
13 Who delivered us out of the authority of darkness, and translated us into the kingdom of his beloved Son:
14 In whom we have the redemption-deliverance of the sending away-forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible Elohim, [Gen 1:26-27]the firstborn of all creation: [Gen 2:7]
16 For in him were all things created, [Genesis 2 then Genesis 1] in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things have been created through him, andforhim: [because he is Adam]
17 And he is before all things, [Gen 2:5-7]and in him all things consist[Gen 1:1].
18 And he is himself the head[Reshiyth-Arche, Gen 1:1] of the body of the congregation, who is Arche, [Gen 1:1, John 1:1] firstborn from the dead: that in all things he might be preeminent.
19 For it was well-pleasing [to the Father] that in him should dwell the whole pleroma: [the whole Divine Logos-Reasoning-Spirit of the full Aleph-Taw]
Gen.1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
Is.45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
The adamah is the soil of the heart. The eretz is the outer bounds or badlands, the place to where Qain was driven out from the presence of the Lord, (the eretz is thus "the flesh"). It was the adamah-soil of Adam's own heart that he himself had caused to be cursed. The bringing forth of thorns and thistles and tares concerns the evils of the heart, (adamah-soil), which things are expounded in the parables of the Master and especially in the Parable of the Sower, (things hidden from the foundation of the world, Mat 13:35, Psa 78:2). Noah is the typology of immersion as Peter reveals, so then, first comes the tilling of the adamah-soil of the heart and the planting of the seed of the Word in the adamah-soil of the heart, then comes the washing of the body, (eretz), in the living water of the Word. If one "mortifies the members which are upon the eretz-land-earth" and washes in the water of the Word then indeed the same is immersing for the dead as Paul mentions in 1Cor 15:29, (those "members who sleep in Messiah"), whom the Master will raise up when he appears, ("quickening your mortal body" so that you and the members of your whole house-body-temple-household may serve in the kingdom wherein dwells righteousness, in a new heavens and a new earth).
This difference between the adamah-soil of the heart and the outer eretz-land is highlighted in the Prophets and reveals the supernal truth behind the whole story: the kingdom of Elohim is within you.
Ezekiel 11:14-20
14 Again the Word of YHWH came unto me, saying:
15 Son of man, your brethren, even your brethren the men of your kindred, and all the house of Israel wholly, are they unto whom the inhabitants of Yerushalem have said, "Get yourselves far from YHWH, for unto us is this eretzot-land given for a possession."
16 Therefore say, Thus says Adonai YHWH, Although I have cast them far off among the heathen-nations, and although I have scattered them among the eretzot-lands, yet will I be to them as a little miqdash-sanctuary in the eretzot-lands where they shall come.
17 Therefore say, Thus says Adonai YHWH, I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the eretzot-lands where you have been scattered, and I will give you the adamat-soil of Yisrael.
18 And they shall enter therein, [the adamah-soil of Yisrael] and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof out of that place [out of the adamah-soil of the heart].
19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new Spirit within you, and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh:
20 That they may walk in My statutes, and keep My ordinances, and do them: and they shall be My people, and I will be their Elohim.
And the Prophet Zechariah expounds the difference even further, even telling us that the adamah-soil of the heart is the inheritance of the Father, and His Son, "El with us", and he says "Let all flesh be silent", that is the eretz, the outer-bounds or "badlands" of the flesh with all its beasts and evil creatures, (sins, evil, and "sinners" dwell in the flesh, Rom 7:18-25).
Zechariah 2:10-13
10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for behold, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of you, says YHWH.
11 And many nations shall be joined unto Yah in that day, and shall be My people: and I also [the Malak who speaks] will dwell in the midst of you, and you shall know that YHWH Tzabaoth has sent me unto you.
12 And YHWH shall inherit Yhudah, His portion in the holy Adamat, [adamah] and shall again choose Yerushalem:
13 Let all flesh be silent[1Tim 2:11-15] in the Presence of Yah: for He is raised up out of His holy habitation.
The adamah is the soil of the heart. The eretz is the outer bounds or badlands, the place to where Qain was driven out from the presence of the Lord, (the eretz is thus "the flesh"). It was the adamah-soil of Adam's own heart that he himself had caused to be cursed. The bringing forth of thorns and thistles and tares concerns the evils of the heart, (adamah-soil), which things are expounded in the parables of the Master and especially in the Parable of the Sower, (things hidden from the foundation of the world, Mat 13:35, Psa 78:2). Noah is the typology of immersion as Peter reveals, so then, first comes the tilling of the adamah-soil of the heart and the planting of the seed of the Word in the adamah-soil of the heart, then comes the washing of the body, (eretz), in the living water of the Word. If one "mortifies the members which are upon the eretz-land-earth" and washes in the water of the Word then indeed the same is immersing for the dead as Paul mentions in 1Cor 15:29, (those "members who sleep in Messiah"), whom the Master will raise up when he appears, ("quickening your mortal body" so that you and the members of your whole house-body-temple-household may serve in the kingdom wherein dwells righteousness, in a new heavens and a new earth).
That is yours and the majority reading, but not mine, for the Father neither knows nor creates evil.
H1254 בָּרָא bara' (baw-raw') v.
1. (absolutely) to create.
2. (qualified) to cut down (a wood).
3. to select, feed (as formative processes).
[a primitive root]
KJV: choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch, do, make (fat).
In the sense of cutting down trees, (to build a house), as it is used in Joshua 17:15-18 KJV.
Isaiah 45:7-25
[07] I form the light and cut down darkness, I make peace and cut down evil: I am Yah the Elohim who does all these things.
[08] Let the heavens distill droplets from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness; let the earth open up, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness sprout up together: I am Yah and the One who cut it down unto you.
[09] What better have I made than what is like the clay of the potter? Shall the plowman plow the earth the whole day? Shall the clay say to the potter, What have you made? your work has no hands?
[10] Woe to the one who says to the Father, What is this you have begotten? or to the Mother, What is this you have brought forth?
[11] Thus says Yah the Elohim, the Holy One Yisrael, and He who made the things which are to come: Do you question Me concerning My sons? Do you command Me concerning the work of My hands?
[12] I have made the earth, and cut down Adam upon it: with My hand I have stretched out the heavens, and all their host I have commanded.
[13] I have raised him up with the King of Righteousness, [LXX]and I will direct all his ways: he shall build My city, and he shall let go My captives, not for price nor reward, says YHWH Tzabaoth.
[14] Thus says YHWH Tzabaoth, the labor of Egypt, and the merchandise of Ethiopia and the Sabeans, men of stature, shall pass-over unto you, and they shall become your slaves: they shall follow behind you bound in fetters; they shall pass-over to you and do obeisance unto you: and in you shall they make supplication, for surely El is in you, and there is no other Elohim.
[15] Truly you are an El who hides Himself, Elohei Yisrael, Moshiah-Deliverer:
[16] All who oppose themselves shall be ashamed and confounded, they shall walk in shame, and the isles shall make a dedication unto Me.
[17] But Yisrael shall be delivered by YHWH with an everlasting salvation: they shall not be ashamed nor confounded for evermore.
[18] Thus says YHWH, Creator of the heavens, the OA, the Elohim who formed the earth and made it, the One who established it, He that created it not in vain, He that formed it to be inhabited: I am YHWH, and there is none other.
[19] I have not spoken in secret, nor in a dark place of the earth: I said not to the seed of Yaakob, "Seek Me in vain", for I am YHWH, speaking righteousness and declaring truth.
[20] Assemble yourselves and come: draw near together, you that escape of the nations, they have no knowledge who set up the wood of a carved idol, nor do they who pray to an El that cannot save.
[21] Let it be told, and let them draw near that they may know altogether: Who has declared these things from the beginning? from the time that it was announced to you? I am Yah the Elohim, and there is no other Elohim apart from Me, El Tzaddik, and there is no Moshiah-Deliverer without Me.
[22] Look unto Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth, for I am El, and there is no other:
[23] By Myself I have sworn, says YHWH, the Righteous Word is gone forth from My mouth and shall not be subverted, That unto Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall confess through Yah —
[24] And He will say of Me, My righteousness and strength belong to Him!
[25] And all that separate themselves from Him shall be ashamed: for in YHWH shall they be justified, and all the seed of Yisrael shall Hallu-in-Yah!
Perhaps yes, but only in the sense that would be similar to the Aleph-Taw without the Spirit, (Logos-Reasoning), of the Word. In that manner Tzion may be thought of as arid or dry without Meshiah, that is, before Meshiah had come, much like Beit-Anyah, (Bethany), is "the house of affliction", and that also is before Meshiah had come.
Beit-Anyah (Bethany) = "house of affliction" = "YeruShalem of above" (in the sides of the north).
Isaiah 54:11 KJV
11 O thou afflicted, [עניה - 'anyah] tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires[Rev 21:10-27].
And this is not the only passage making this point, (Isa 30:19-20, 51:17-23, etc.,).
As for Tzion:
Psalm 2:6-7
6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion:
7 I will declare the decree: YHWH has said unto me, You are My Son, this day have I begotten you.
Psalm 42:6
6 O my Elohim, my soul is cast down within me: therefore will I remember you from the land of Yordan, [Judah beyond Jordan]and of the Hermonim, from the hill Mitzar[the little hill].
Psalm 48:2
2 Beautiful for situation, the joy of all the land is mount Zion, in the side-portions of the north, the city of the Great King.
Psalm 76:2
2 In Shalem also is his Tabernacle: his dwelling place in Zion.
Psalm 133:1-3
1 Song of degrees [steps (sundial), elevations, or high places] for David. Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together-united:
2 Like the precious shemen-oil of olive upon the head, descending upon the beard, the beard of Ahron: going down upon the folds of his garments:
3 As the dew of Hermon which descends upon the upon the hills of Zion: for there YHWH commanded the blessing, life into the olam!
Arguing whether Qain had someone to marry or not is really beyond the scope of what is being related imo because it really is not speaking of carnal physical things but rather supernal realities and truths. However there is another way to answer that, (which I will try to come back to but it pertains to Enosh, which also means, "Man").
Gen 5:1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
Gen 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth: In his own likeness and image and his name Seth.
Nothing said about Abel and Cain being begat of Adam.
But it does say:
1Jn 3:12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother
So, from the word of God, we know that Seth was begat by Adam and Cain was of the wicked one.
There are physical children of the devil on this earth. Jesus doesn't call any man something that they are not.
Speaking to those that had gathered around him.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
The below scripture is not talking about an "apple seed".
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Let us read the scriptures about sin in Gen as adults and quit speaking about it as if it is a children's tale.
This is the Book of the Dead, the permanent dwellers upon the eretz, (οι κατοικουντες επι της γης, Rev 13:8), whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb having been slain from the foundation of the kosmos, (Rev 13:8), for though their names are written: none of them are written to have lived. Howbeit Enoch and Lamech are written in the Book of Life and are written to have lived, for in the days of Enosh men began to cry out preaching and heralding in the name of Yah the Elohim, (Gen 4:26), and Enoch and Lamech were thus born from above. Therefore they are taken out from the line of Qain: for they were born into the holy and supernal seed line of Adam and his sons, by faith, and by the hearing of the preaching of the Word which commenced in the time of Enosh, son of Seth, son of Adam.
Genesis 4:16-26 <snip>
[25] And Adam knew his ishah again, and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: for she said, Elohim has appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Qain slew.
[26] And to Seth, to him also there was born a son, and he called his name Enosh: this one began to herald-preach-call out in the name of Yah the Elohim.
So Tobal-Qain brings forth Qain and the eighth is of the seven, (Rev 17:11), for the eighth is the first, that is, Qain, the murderer who was sent away into the eretz outer-bounds or badlands of the desert, (eretz-Nod, "land of wandering"), like a desert nomad-wanderer: the same is the goat to/for Azazel, the unclean spirit cast out into the dry-arid places with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, (Lev 16:21-22, Mat 12:43-45, Luk 11:24-26).
This is the beginning of the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the kosmos, (Rev 13:8, 17:8), before it was amended to add death into the text, which are scribal additions inserted into the text at a later time, ("Amen-amen, I say to you, If anyone keep my Logos, he shall not see death into the age", (not even in your doctrine, John 8:51)). The chronology follows the LXX-Septuagint text, but as one may see it really does not matter, (at least not imho), whether one prefers the Masoretic timeline which is now found in the Hebrew text or whether the Septuagint, (except that, yes, I do believe that Methuselah is supposed to have lived through the flood as according to the Septuagint text, (there are four faces to the krubim and the man, lol, moreover Enosh also means, "Man")). In the Hebrew text of the Gen 11:10-27 genealogy one may see that the scribal addition does not exist: for death is not mentioned anywhere in the genealogy until "Haran died before his father" in Gen 11:28, ("in Ur of the Chaldees"). The scribal addition is placed in brackets and gray text, "[and he died]".
The Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the Kosmos, (Rev 13:8, 17:8).
Genesis 5
[01] This is the book of the generations of Adam in the Yom wherein Elohim cut down Adam: in the similitude-likeness of Elohim he made him:
[02] Male and female he created them, and blessed them: and he called their name, Adam, in the Yom wherein they were created, [that is, Yom HaShishi].
[03] And Adam lives two hundred and thirty years and produces in his own likeness, according to his image, and he calls his name Seth. [04] And the days of Adam after his producing Seth are seven hundred years, and he produces sons and daughters:
[05] And all the days that Adam lived are nine hundred and thirty years. [and he died]
[06] And Seth lives two hundred and five years and produces Enosh.
[07] And Seth lives after he produces Enosh seven hundred and seven years, and he produces sons and daughters:
[08] And all the days of Seth are nine hundred and twelve years. [and he died]
[09] And Enosh lives a hundred and ninety years and produces Qainan.
In addition to what is in the spoiler there are indeed four generations to a man, according to the Torah, (as I did mention in one of those quotes), and this supernal truth and way of thinking is first exemplified in the genealogy and generations of Adam: for as I had stated already in my response to you, Enosh also means, "Man", and please note also that the son of Enosh begins the cycle anew, for Enosh names him "Qainan", (essentially the same as the name Qain, but with the critical difference of an extra letter nun [life] at the end of it). Moreover please note that Enosh is the first to begin to call upon the name of Yah the Elohim, (Gen 4:26).
All of the following statements are true and none of them contradict: but how can they all be true at the same time? The only way this is truly possible is if there are indeed four "generations" in the first "age" of a man, like the four seasons in a full year: autumn, winter, spring, and the summer of your harvest, (and the Master gives you all the supernal signs to watch for in the Olivet Discourse so that you may know when your summer is near, even at the doors, (as in the days of Noah, lol)).
Exodus 20:5 KJV
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exodus 34:7 KJV
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Numbers 14:18 KJV
18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Deuteronomy 5:9 KJV
9 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me,
Deuteronomy 24:16 KJV
16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Ezekiel 18:1-4 KJV
1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,
2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?
3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.
4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Ezekiel 18:19-20 KJV
19 Yet say ye, Why? doth not the son bear the iniquity of the father? When the son hath done that which is lawful and right, and hath kept all my statutes, and hath done them, he shall surely live.
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
If all of the above statements are true then it can really only mean one thing: there are four generations to a man, (the first "age" of the man according to other Testimony of the Master in the Gospel accounts). Moreover the Torah therefore is the most likely place from where the following passage gets this thinking, that is, by the reasoning laid out above herein.
The following four generations concern four stages of a man in his first (mortal) age:
Proverbs 30:11-14 KJV
11 There is a generation [1] that curseth their father, and doth not bless their mother.
12 There is a generation [2] that are pure in their own eyes, and yet is not washed from their filthiness.
13 There is a generation, [3] O how lofty are their eyes! and their eyelids are lifted up.
14 There is a generation, [4]whose teeth are as swords, and their jaw teeth as knives, [Dan 7:7 - the fourth-generation "beast" - "great teeth of iron"] to devour the poor from off the earth, and the needy from among men.
Moreover the Master confirms this understanding in multiple places:
Matthew 12:39-45 KJV
39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation [1] seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, [2] and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, [3] and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.
43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation [4].
This speaks from the beginning: Qain and his line, just as it was laid out for you in one of the posts requoted above herein, (titled "The Book of the Dead"). Qain is the prototype for the goat to-for Azazel with all the sins upon his mortally wounded head, sent forth into the dry-arid places of the desert-wilderness, that is, "the land of Nod" or wandering. But Moses warns, "be sure your sin will find you out", (Num 32:23, and that is why the goat sent away is not destroyed in the text, even though it did become a tradition to send it over a rocky-jagged precipice). So Qain comes back to his "house", (YOU, and there are no exceptions to the rule given by the Master), and he finds the house empty, swept, and garnished, (with new idols), and he goes and gets seven other spirits more wicked than himself, (the line of Qain as shown above herein). And the seventh, Tobal-Qain, brings forth Qain with pomp and fanfare: thus Qain is the eighth and of the seven, for he was the first which was sent away into the desert to begin with.
With this supernal understanding held first and foremost it is not difficult to see that there was plenty of time for many other people to have been born of the physical seed line of Adam whether or not "Adam" is intended as a single man or a federal head representing all of humanity.
Four Generations:
1) Adam
2) Qain
3) Abel
4) Seth
New Man ~ Enosh-Man
And Enosh is he that began to herald-preach-call out in the name of Yah the Elohim, (Gen 4:26). Thus, with the above supernal truths being held first and foremost, there is plenty of time in the first four generations for many other people to have been born of the physical seed line, but the point not to be missed should be this: the holy seed line of Adam to Noah, (and all the way through the entire record of the scripture), is not physical, but SPIRIT, because it is by faith and the hearing of the preaching of the truth beginning with Enosh. For the same reason Peter calls Noah "the eighth Preacher of Righteousness", (2Pet 2:5), for Noah is the eighth from Enosh, the first Preacher of Righteousness according to the scripture, (Gen 4:26).
Preachers of Righteousness:
1) Enosh - Gen 4:26
2) Qainan
3) Mahalaleel
4) Yared
5) Enoch the Prophet
6) Methuselah
7) Lamech
8) Noah - 2 Pet 2:5
Then we agree, nothing "spooky" happened when Adam and Eve sinned. To that point they had only "known" meaning experienced good, but from that point on they knew, or experienced good AND EVIL. They experienced shame, then fear so hid themselves, then blame of others, then no repentance.
Some like to make out that as Adam ate, the first leaf fell off a tree, the first animal got sick and died etc.
The main thing is that NOTHING HAPPENED that was spooky at the fall. Nothing spooky has been passed on to all mankind.
If you live a sinful life, do you think you pass some of that life (or maybe even a lot of it) onto you children? Also, why do you think Adam had to till the ground and God placed a flaming sword to protect the way of the tree of Life?
Nothing spookier to a child than to see a loving parent go ballistic...
True nothing in the forbidden fruit itself but that He was disobeyed...this rebellion triggered a response from Yah that must have spooked ALL prior creation throughout the universe...that these humans were so important to have Him kill...shed blood...for them must have been a shock...
"Now they have become one of Us" and so He cast them out...only occurred AFTER they (all of the universe) witnessed His shedding blood to make coverings, cursing Adam thereby destroying the ground and Adam his purpose, cursing Eve ushering in emnety and pain, and the finally cursing the Snake and extending the plot to a future revelation of salvation
thus He altered all He made on this planet (except time and its Sabbath)...what was going on?
That is spooky...
The universe was introduced to a jealous God...His wrath...
All this of course was because He is on trial His accuser claiming He is not a good God deserving worship and should be replaced...humans were created with free will to be the character witnesses of the Defendant...to determine (for once and for all the universe) is Yah good?
Lucifer had rebelled and was not killed but given a planet to play this out...is Yah good?
So far in Genesis it's not looking so good...Yah now has blood on His hands...but a plan of redemption also revealed the mercy and grace as never before...
My personal belief is that there is so much about the story in Eden which has been misrepresented, mainly by folks inserting a supernatural element into the story. Normally they quote the following...Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Unfortunately they are so wrong, and so misunderstand Paul, that it is hard to know where to begin untangling their mistakes.
First, death had been going on long before in the geologic column.
Second, this only refers to human death.
Third, nobody died when they ate of the fruit.
Forth, Abel was when human death entered the world, and he was innocent.
Fifth, the ones eating the fruit lived for 900 extra years (if the men lived long, how much longer the women?).
Sixth, and worst of all is the blaming of Adam for our woes as if sin were a gene passed down from generation to generation.
Seventh - Adam was IMHO already fallen before the (non existent) fall of man.
Eighth, nothing fell - man simply disobeyed God.
Ninth, nothing happened in to Adam and Eve's brain that they suddenly and spookily acquired angel knowledge of good and evil.
Tenth, the Garden in Eden was a fenced off garden like my back yard with no wild animals like serpents. How did Satan get access to Eve? Of course God allowed that access and possibly this was the first contact so God had only that day allowed Satan into the Garden.
Eleventh, God strongly suspected that weak and puny humans would succumb to Satan's pitch because much smarter angels already had bought Lucifer's accusations against God.
I really like what you said Clefty saying God is on trial to see if He is good. You wrote "Lucifer had rebelled and was not killed but given a planet to play this out...is Yah good?"
My belief is Adam and Eve were already lukewarm towards God, as evidenced by their lack of repentance after sinning. So God let Satan test them. And it was no surprise that they failed.
I believe God had reconciled Himself to dragging mankind out of the slop and cleaning mankind up. The default setting for man, even before the fall was carnality, God ignoring, selfishness. That is why God created man mortal, not of spirit from the start. His plan all along was to clean man up. That said, I think God was surprised at how weak mankind turned out to be, and almost repented of making them at the time of the flood.
You wrote "So far in Genesis it's not looking so good...Yah now has blood on His hands...but a plan of redemption also revealed the mercy and grace as never before..."
Worth noting that there is no plan of salvation for fallen angels, but from the foundation of the world, Christ was slain. God's plan from the start was mercy, grace and NEVER ENDING REPENTANCE required of mankind.
If you live a sinful life, do you think you pass some of that life (or maybe even a lot of it) onto you children? Also, why do you think Adam had to till the ground and God placed a flaming sword to protect the way of the tree of Life?
I think the Garden of Eden was a protected, hedged area of Eden, and outside there were all the creatures we see today, killing and eating each other.
Our children may learn good or bad from us, but there is nothing spooky about this. Lions which have seen their parents kill elephants, become elephant killing lions in turn.
An angel preventing return to Eden is not spooky. Adam's mind going from spiritual to carnal from eating fruit would be. All that happened was Adam knew (in the Biblical sense, experienced) good and evil whereas up to then he only knew good.
An angel preventing return to Eden is not spooky. Adam's mind going from spiritual to carnal from eating fruit would be. All that happened was Adam knew (in the Biblical sense, experienced) good and evil whereas up to then he only knew good.
Problem is that now you have essentially voided out everything Paul says about the natural-carnal man and his mindset, (by labeling it as "spooky"). Elohim did not create an ignorant spiritually blind "cave man", no, but rather that spiritual blindness is a result of the fall.
Problem is that now you have essentially voided out everything Paul says about the natural-carnal man and his mindset, (by labeling it as "spooky"). Elohim did not create an ignorant spiritually blind "cave man", no, but rather that spiritual blindness is a result of the fall.
Daqq, not one thing that Adam is recorded as saying indicates spiritual awareness. Nor what Eve says.
Eve quotes the command given not to eat the fruit, then is instantly persuaded to eat it as it would make her smart. No loyalty, no obedience, no spirituality. No remorse afterwards. This is the biggest sign of a lack of spiritual maturity. They hide, they blame, and Adam throws Eve under the bus, after essentially blaming God for her. Adam is as weak as water knowingly eating.
Like us, they had to want a closer walk with God, but having seen God, they went "whatever". Adam and Eve are toast.
Daqq, not one thing that Adam is recorded as saying indicates spiritual awareness. Nor what Eve says.
Eve quotes the command given not to eat the fruit, then is instantly persuaded to eat it as it would make her smart. No loyalty, no obedience, no spirituality. No remorse afterwards. This is the biggest sign of a lack of spiritual maturity. They hide, they blame, and Adam throws Eve under the bus, after essentially blaming God for her. Adam is as weak as water knowingly eating.
Like us, they had to want a closer walk with God, but having seen God, they went "whatever". Adam and Eve are toast.
Now you are essentially accusing Elohim of basically having made a spiritually blind cave man. That is not "how the story goes" at all, but apparently you cannot "see" it because you are not willing to see the metaphorical-allegorical-typological nature of the story. Adam is not only a "type" for the Last Adam, (as Paul teaches), but also an example and type for us to learn from: the first time ever you willfully sinned, you died, just like Adam. You also were "cast out", for you yourself ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil just as Adam did, (and that therefore is not "original sin" handed down to you but rather due to your own actions). Moreover there is no sacrifice or offering provided for willful, rebellious, and intentional sins, not anywhere, and therefore the only hope you have is to repent, (till and turn the adamah-soil of your heart), and plead for the mercy and grace of Elohim: which is where the Testimony of the Messiah becomes so relevant, and why you must immerse yourself in that Testimony, full of grace and truth. And only in that manner will the "veil" be removed from your eyes and mind when you read these things: for what you read in the scripture does not concern physical and carnal things like you seem to imagine. We all sin willfully, no doubt, sometime or another: for all do sin, and all fall well short of the glory of Elohim, and that is why Paul says, "You were dead in your trespasses and sins", yes, spiritually dead. Moreover you are missing the greatest part of the story as told so far: Adam was not "toast", no, he did indeed repent, and Elohim had mercy upon him, (Gen 1:1-31).
You are dead right here. I see no allegory other than what I quoted Paul gave. Paul never says Adam was converted. Paul always CONTRASTS the first Adam with the second.
Adam is not only a "type" for the Last Adam, (as Paul teaches), but also an example and type for us to learn from:
the first time ever you willfully sinned, you died, just like Adam. You also were "cast out", for you yourself ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil just as Adam did,
Nowhere in the Bible does it say this. Children sin wilfully when they steal cookies and lie. They are, like us, born in the pig slop, but God overlooks this intending to clean us up. No magic here.
(and that therefore is not "original sin" handed down to you but rather due to your own actions).
Moreover there is no sacrifice or offering provided for willful, rebellious, and intentional sins, not anywhere, and therefore the only hope you have is to repent, (till and turn the adamah-soil of your heart), and plead for the mercy and grace of Elohim: which is where the Testimony of the Messiah becomes so relevant, and why you must immerse yourself in that Testimony, full of grace and truth.
If there is no offering for wilful sin, then we are all toast. The problem with wilful sin is that it is harder to repent of than unwitting sin, thus brings us closer to being "shipwrecked". Every single sin we have to plead for mercy and grace. Even you daqq sometimes sin wilfully.
And only in that manner will the "veil" be removed from your eyes and mind when you read these things: for what you read in the scripture does not concern physical and carnal things like you seem to imagine. We all sin willfully, no doubt, sometime or another: for all do sin, and all fall well short of the glory of Elohim, and that is why Paul says, "You were dead in your trespasses and sins", yes, spiritually dead. Moreover you are missing the greatest part of the story as told so far: Adam was not "toast", no, he did indeed repent, and Elohim had mercy upon him, (Gen 1:1-31).
This is a little "spooky" in that it implies that folks like Adam can suddenly become blind or unconverted. There is no evidence of a person in the Bible suddenly going from spiritual to carnal, or even from carnal to spiritual. Conversion is the beginning of a lifetime of repentance, or renewing the mind.
I think the Garden of Eden was a protected, hedged area of Eden, and outside there were all the creatures we see today, killing and eating each other.
Our children may learn good or bad from us, but there is nothing spooky about this. Lions which have seen their parents kill elephants, become elephant killing lions in turn.
An angel preventing return to is not spooky. Adam's mind going from spiritual to carnal from eating fruit would be. All that happened was Adam knew (in the Biblical sense, experienced) good and evil whereas up to then he only knew good.
I explained how the story goes, that neither of them display a grain of conversion.
You are dead right here. I see no allegory other than what I quoted Paul gave. Paul never says Adam was converted. Paul always CONTRASTS the first Adam with the second.
No. Adam was the ANTITHESIS of the second "Adam".
Nowhere in the Bible does it say this. Children sin wilfully when they steal cookies and lie. They are, like us, born in the pig slop, but God overlooks this intending to clean us up. No magic here.
Agreed.
If there is no offering for wilful sin, then we are all toast. The problem with wilful sin is that it is harder to repent of than unwitting sin, thus brings us closer to being "shipwrecked". Every single sin we have to plead for mercy and grace. Even you daqq sometimes sin wilfully.
This is a little "spooky" in that it implies that folks like Adam can suddenly become blind or unconverted. There is no evidence of a person in the Bible suddenly going from spiritual to carnal, or even from carnal to spiritual. Conversion is the beginning of a lifetime of repentance, or renewing the mind.
Why should I be surprised that you understood pretty much nothing I said?
Romans 5:14 W/H
14 αλλα εβασιλευσεν ο θανατος απο αδαμ μεχρι μωυσεως και επι τους μη αμαρτησαντας επι τω ομοιωματι της παραβασεως αδαμ ος εστιν τυπος του μελλοντος
Romans 5:14 ASV
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
Romans 5:14 YLT
14 but the death did reign from Adam till Moses, even upon those not having sinned in the likeness of Adam's transgression, who is a type of him who is coming.
Romans 5:14 TS2009
14 But death reigned from Aḏam until Mosheh, even over those who had not sinned according to the likeness of the transgression of Aḏam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Note the CONTRAST between first Adam who is the ANTITHESIS of the second "Adam".
1Co 15:44
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46
¶ Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1Co 15:49
And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Notice verse 46 which says boldly, that the first Adam was earthy or natural, not spiritual.
Daqq, I just might get a different hobby if you cannot see that Adam never was spiritual.
