Adam and or Eve had all the viruses.

[chair]

I literally laugh out loud every time I read the title of this thread.

What complete nonsense! What level of derangement do you have to attain in order to even entertain such utter stupidity?

On a scale of 1-100? or a scale of 1-10?

 

[ok doser]

On a scale of 1-100? or a scale of 1-10?

on a scale of 1

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Viruses are not technically alive outside of a host. And just how long they can exist outside a host is unknown. So, Adam and Eve had to have had most if not all the viruses by kind, and they lived close to a 1000 years . . . I say that is interesting.

Seeds and pollen, which are in some ways similar to viruses, can remain dormant for thousand(s) of years and in many cases largely unaffected by entropy, in that they still function. But a virus, we don’t know just how long they can exist outside a host and or entropy’s affect on their function.

I think it is very likely that Adam and Eve were rarely ill, we know they lived very long lives, and they had to have had all the viruses. Those things can’t be a coincidences . . . in my world view those items are what I call, clues. Clues to a long healthy life on earth.

Another clue is the bowhead whale, it just “happens” to be the longest living animal on earth at 200 years. And then there is the sea turtle, some say turtles may live 400 or 500 years, we just don’t know. Is it a coincidence that both of the longest living creatures on earth, are creatures that would not have been virus isolated during Noah’s flood? And without any question there are more viruses in the ocean than there are on dry land, yet that is where we find the longest living creatures. Maybe viruses help humans and animals deal with the effects of entropy?

How about Noah . . . between the occupants of the Ark, it is likely that most all the viruses were present but probably not all. Could that be a contributing factor to the reduction in the life spans of animals post flood?

Do all the viruses that existed in Eden still exist? I think it is likely they all do. Viruses are part of God’s creation and His creation is not easily put asunder.

It is important that Christians discover why God made viruses and show how they are good, and facilitate humans in living long healthy lives.

Viruses could be nothing more than a simple but very effective incentive plan for us to live abundantly, and when we are close to death, in our old age, viruses help push us on to the next place in a fitting manner. Or, viruses could be much more complicated in the scheme of life on earth in dealing with entropy. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5580475/

“All” Christians, today, believe that part of God’s creation, i.e., viruses, are bad. That belief is an untenable position for the creationist/ Christian/ Christianity to survive in. That context for life has churches closed, while drugs and liquor thrive . . . where masked Christian leaders stand silently by while their millions of followers are cowering in fear over God’s good creation. It is tragic.

Viruses change over time. We've already seen variations happen with the COVID-19 virus. There are "new" flu viruses every year.

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Such does not take into account the curse or its effects. We do know God limited our days to 120. How? (speculation). We do know that all creation groans (again wherever that speculation leads). Propositions are fine but must be proved else they are just ideas untested (hypothesis). You have hypothesis here.

Many expositors of God's word do not agree with the 120 year limitation placed on man's life. This refers to the length of time Noah had to build the ark. The 120 years dates Noah's Flood, See the Believer's Bible Commentary,

6:3 The LORD warned that His Spirit would not strive with man forever, but that there would be a delay of one hundred and twenty years before the judgment of the flood would occur. God is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish, but there is a limit. Peter tells us that it was Christ who was preaching through Noah to the antediluvians by the Holy Spirit (1Pe_3:18-20; 2Pe_2:5). They rejected the message and are now imprisoned. (Believer's Bible Commentary on Genesis 6:3)

 

[Lon]

Many expositors of God's word do not agree with the 120 year limitation placed on man's life. This refers to the length of time Noah had to build the ark. The 120 years dates Noah's Flood, See the Believer's Bible Commentary,

6:3 The LORD warned that His Spirit would not strive with man forever, but that there would be a delay of one hundred and twenty years before the judgment of the flood would occur. God is longsuffering, not willing that any should perish, but there is a limit. Peter tells us that it was Christ who was preaching through Noah to the antediluvians by the Holy Spirit (1Pe_3:18-20; 2Pe_2:5). They rejected the message and are now imprisoned. (Believer's Bible Commentary on Genesis 6:3)

It is why I caveated with "speculation." It is a bit vague in the conveyance but it is interesting (at least to me) that very few live even to 100 years. It'd 'seem' (speculation) that man's years are indeed limited to 120 years as a ceiling. :think:

Good thought and counterpoint :up:

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

It is why I caveated with "speculation." It is a bit vague in the conveyance but it is interesting (at least to me) that very few live even to 100 years. It'd 'seem' (speculation) that man's years are indeed limited to 120 years as a ceiling. :think:

Good thought and counterpoint :up:

What happens when you make a copy of a copy of a copy ...? Gradually, the copy becomes distorted. So from Adam and Eve's time as a starting point, each generation lived shorter lives. (Of course there is the exception, Methuselah.) But after Noah's Flood, the lifespan of man continues to decline, but still higher than 120 years. In any case, 120 years might have a dual meaning, I can't be dogmatic about it. Thanks for giving me a chance to explain my beliefs on 120 years.

What happens when a person gets a virus, like H1N1, which my wife and I both got? We survived and built up an immunity to the H1N1 virus. We can never get that version of the virus again, ever. If enough people get a particular virus and build up an immunity to it, that's called herd immunity. That's like getting a vaccine not made by man. Some doctors were speculating that if enough people got COVID-19, they would build up an immunity to it which would ultimately lead to herd immunity.

Viruses mutate. For a vaccination for COVID-19 to work, it would have to apply to all variations of the virus. We still don't have a vaccine for the virus known as the common cold!

 

[Lon]

Viruses mutate. For a vaccination for COVID-19 to work, it would have to apply to all variations of the virus. We still don't have a vaccine for the virus known as the common cold!

Zinc (shhh, don't tell! :chuckle: (it kills it, just takes a bit of time for it to get to all of the virus in the body).

Thanks for giving me a chance to explain my beliefs ...!

Well, if I were 3 Eastern Orthodox women posting....

:e4e:

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Zinc (shhh, don't tell! :chuckle: (it kills it, just takes a bit of time for it to get to all of the virus in the body).

:e4e:

It's funny you mentioned zinc. I worked as a project engineer for processing zinc sulfide concentrate from area mines into pure zinc ingots. Working on site for 6 months, we were told to not take a zinc supplement because we were already inhaling enough zinc that none of us would get the common cold. This was in the mid '90s.

 

[Lon]

It's funny you mentioned zinc. I worked as a project engineer for processing zinc sulfide concentrate from area mines into pure zinc ingots. Working on site for 6 months, we were told to not take a zinc supplement because we were already inhaling enough zinc that none of us would get the common cold. This was in the mid '90s.

That's a fantastic story!

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

https://www.livescience.com/52175-an...d-siberia.html

I don't believe in evolution, but viruses do change over time, mutate. That is why a COVID-19 vaccination is so silly. This virus is going to mutate into many variants over time. Adam and Eve having all the viruses seems implausible.

 

[Clete]

https://www.livescience.com/52175-an...d-siberia.html

I don't believe in evolution, but viruses do change over time, mutate. That is why a COVID-19 vaccination is so silly. This virus is going to mutate into many variants over time. Adam and Eve having all the viruses seems implausible.

A vaccine is anything but silly. Your comment here betrays an ignorance of how vaccines work.

A mutated virus may be able to get around a particular vaccine but that is not necessarily the case. It depends on how the vaccine works.

We have a very effective vaccine against the Measles virus, for example. Do you suppose that the Measles virus hasn't ever mutated since the 1960s?

Clete

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

A vaccine is anything but silly. Your comment here betrays an ignorance of how vaccines work.

A mutated virus may be able to get around a particular vaccine but that is not necessarily the case. It depends on how the vaccine works.

We have a very effective vaccine against the Measles virus, for example. Do you suppose that the Measles virus hasn't ever mutated since the 1960s?

Clete

Where is the vaccine against the common cold? Where is the vaccine against hantavirus? Where is the vaccine against ebola? Where is the vaccine for ...

• Chagas disease (American trypanosomiasis)
• Chikungunya
• Dengue
• Cytomegalovirus
• HIV/AIDS
• Hookworm infection
• Leishmaniasis
• Malaria
• Respiratory Syncytial Virus
• Schistosomiasis

Where's your vaccine?

 

[Clete]

Where is the vaccine against the common cold? Where is the vaccine against hantavirus? Where is the vaccine against ebola? Where is the vaccine for ...

• Chagas disease (American trypanosomiasis)
• Chikungunya
• Dengue
• Cytomegalovirus
• HIV/AIDS
• Hookworm infection
• Leishmaniasis
• Malaria
• Respiratory Syncytial Virus
• Schistosomiasis

Where's your vaccine?

There are definitely way more viruses that we don't have a vaccine for than those that we do. That isn't at all relevant to the point. I wasn't suggesting that it was easy to make a vaccine, I was PROVING that it wasn't silly.

Incidentally, I said in my last post that whether a virus can get around a particular vaccine or not has to do with the way the vaccine works. That's true but it's also true that it depends on how the virus itself works and how the body responds to the virus. All of that and probably other factors as well go toward making an effective vaccine quite difficult indeed.

It's not unusual for it to turn out that no vaccine is needed in the first place because of the way the virus in effect burns itself out. Ebola could end up being an example of that. There's a good chance that there won't be a single case of Ebola in the whole world in the relatively near future. There's something about it's mutation rate coupled with the rate of infection and mortality rates that ends up causing the virus to have nowhere to live in a population. This sort of semi self-destructive life cycle of Ebola is proof positive that it did not exist even hundreds of years ago, never mind thousands.

Other viruses, like Chickenpox for example, help us out when it comes to making an effective vaccine. One of the reasons viral vaccines are tough to make is because your body only keeps making the antibodies so long as it has virus to kill. When the virus is no longer in the body, your body sends the all clear and stops making the antibodies and then you're susceptible to catching the disease again. This is what happens with the common cold. You can keep catching the same illness over and over again because your body does too good a job of getting rid of it once it shows up and then relaxes your defenses entirely after its gone. Chickenpox, on the other hand sticks around in your body forever. It hides out in the nerve cells in a dormant state but it is nevertheless present and your body knows it and so keeps making the antibodies. That's why you can only get the disease once and then your immune.The virus can reactivate and cause Shingles in adults but it is rarely fatal unless the patient's immune system is compromised precisely because the body already has antibodies present to fight it with. Now, they even have a sort of booster shot that works as a vaccine for Shingles.

The point is that there are vaccines that do work and it appears that Covid-19 is going to be one of those viruses that we figure out how to create one for. There's no telling yet whether it'll be a vaccine that you have to take only once and then you're immune or if it'll just be a seasonal preventative but there are at least six different competing companies that are in final clinical trials. All six of which are showing very promising results and could end up being approved for use in the general population and doing so will likely save hundreds of thousands of lives, not to mention allowing pretty nearly the entire civilized world to get back to living life in a rational manner.

In short, vaccination for Covid-19 is anything but silly.

Clete

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

There are definitely way more viruses that we don't have a vaccine for than those that we do. That isn't at all relevant to the point. I wasn't suggesting that it was easy to make a vaccine, I was PROVING that it wasn't silly.

Incidentally, I said in my last post that whether a virus can get around a particular vaccine or not has to do with the way the vaccine works. That's true but it's also true that it depends on how the virus itself works and how the body responds to the virus. All of that and probably other factors as well go toward making an effective vaccine quite difficult indeed.

It's not unusual for it to turn out that no vaccine is needed in the first place because of the way the virus in effect burns itself out. Ebola could end up being an example of that. There's a good chance that there won't be a single case of Ebola in the whole world in the relatively near future. There's something about it's mutation rate coupled with the rate of infection and mortality rates that ends up causing the virus to have nowhere to live in a population. This sort of semi self-destructive life cycle of Ebola is proof positive that it did not exist even hundreds of years ago, never mind thousands.

Other viruses, like Chickenpox for example, help us out when it comes to making an effective vaccine. One of the reasons viral vaccines are tough to make is because your body only keeps making the antibodies so long as it has virus to kill. When the virus is no longer in the body, your body sends the all clear and stops making the antibodies and then you're susceptible to catching the disease again. This is what happens with the common cold. You can keep catching the same illness over and over again because your body does too good a job of getting rid of it once it shows up and then relaxes your defenses entirely after its gone. Chickenpox, on the other hand sticks around in your body forever. It hides out in the nerve cells in a dormant state but it is nevertheless present and your body knows it and so keeps making the antibodies. That's why you can only get the disease once and then your immune.The virus can reactivate and cause Shingles in adults but it is rarely fatal unless the patient's immune system is compromised precisely because the body already has antibodies present to fight it with. Now, they even have a sort of booster shot that works as a vaccine for Shingles.

The point is that there are vaccines that do work and it appears that Covid-19 is going to be one of those viruses that we figure out how to create one for. There's no telling yet whether it'll be a vaccine that you have to take only once and then you're immune or if it'll just be a seasonal preventative but there are at least six different competing companies that are in final clinical trials. All six of which are showing very promising results and could end up being approved for use in the general population and doing so will likely save hundreds of thousands of lives, not to mention allowing pretty nearly the entire civilized world to get back to living life in a rational manner.

In short, vaccination for Covid-19 is anything but silly.

Clete

Silly was a poor choice of words on my part. My point is to make an effective vaccine, one has to make sure it is effective against all strains (mutations) of the virus. There are five variations of ebola, five genera of hantavirus, two genera of Marburg, four types of dengue fever, then there's the Spanish Flu, etc. COVID-19 has more variations than I can count. This will end up requiring people to get their annual flu shot and COVID-19 shot, which may or may not work. A vaccine may be developed for COVID-19, but it won't necessarily cover all the genera and sub-genera of the family it comes from.

 

[Clete]

Silly was a poor choice of words on my part. My point is to make an effective vaccine, one has to make sure it is effective against all strains (mutations) of the virus. There are five variations of ebola, five genera of hantavirus, two genera of Marburg, four types of dengue fever, then there's the Spanish Flu, etc. COVID-19 has more variations than I can count. This will end up requiring people to get their annual flu shot and COVID-19 shot, which may or may not work. A vaccine may be developed for COVID-19, but it won't necessarily cover all the genera and sub-genera of the family it comes from.

I'd like for you to cite your source. To the best of my knowledge, there six known strains of COVID-19 which is a unique or "novel" version of SARS virus (SARS-CoV-2) and while there are variants of COVID-19 they are all still COVID-19 viruses and a vaccine should work on most, if not all of the variants unless the vaccine works because of a very specific aspect of a particular variant or if the variation is significant enough to render the vaccine ineffective. This is what happens with the flu vaccines, by the way. Not only is there more than one virus that causes influenza but the viruses change quite rapidly. There is insufficient information to know whether COVID-19 does anything similar in this regard but notice that they are almost always able to churn out the appropriate vaccine for whichever strain of the flu virus is prevalent that season. They actually develop flu shots twice a year. They can do this because they don't have to start from scratch and completely reinvent the wheel every time a new strain shows up. The variants are far more similar than they are different from each other.

Regardless, so long as they come up with something that is safe and effective, whether people have to get the shot annually or not, it will save thousands upon thousands of lives and allow the world to get back to normal life by artificially creating herd immunity which gives the virus very much fewer hosts to live in and makes it orders of magnitude more difficult to spread around.

Clete

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

Clete,

I'll get on my laptop in a little bit to give you the links with access to the pdf papers attached. It's too hard to do on my laptop.

SObG

 

[Clete]

Johnson & Johnson’s Single-Dose Coronavirus Vaccine Enters Late-Stage Trials

 

[Clete]

Clete,

I'll get on my laptop in a little bit to give you the links with access to the pdf papers attached. It's too hard to do on my laptop.

SObG

:up:

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

:up:

Okay. The first link will be to PDF paper covering the genomic characterization of COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...-1-29-2020.pdf

 

[Saved.One.by.Grace]

The second link details COVID-19 origin.