ECT A Two-Fold Foundation

[Danoh]

Been meaning to address this, for sometime...

The actual sense of this passage here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Which is a part of all this here...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

And in all that, the Gentiles are said to have gone from having once been "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" verse 12...

To verse 13's "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Missing within the reading of many of all that there, is the awareness of a change in things between verse 12 and 13 there, that the Apostle Paul does not go into there, but that an Unawareness of, results in a very different sense of all that there, in Ephesians 2.

An unawareness of which also results in a mis-fire on the actual sense of this here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians is Advanced Mystery Truth.

It is a sequel to Romans, and as it's sequel, both builds on, as well also often reiterates various aspects of that Foundational Truth laid out throughout Romans; which is why Paul asserts in Romans chapters 1 and 15 and 16, is he wrote Romans to begin with.

In Romans 1:18-3:20, he lays out how first the Gentiles and then the majority of the Nation Israel BOTH ended up on the wrong side of God's perspective about them.

At the beginning of Romans chapter 3, he briefly touches not only on fact of the existence in Paul's day, of Israel's Believing Remnant, despite the majority of their Nation's fall, but also, on the fact of God's faithfulness to His one day bringing about their Promise.

Paul then goes into much more of all this, in Romans 9-11.

How that despite the fall of the majority of their nation, God is by no means through with what He has purposed to do with, in, and through a Believing Remnant of their Nation, as "a nation" one day.

Which brings us full circle to a fuller sense of what the following passage is actually referring to...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Verse 12, of Ephesians 2 is referring to how things were for the Gentiles when they were on the outside looking in.

But it also refers to how things had been for Israel before their Nation was "concluded... under sin" with the Gentiles...

Which is why we read in..

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

At this point, the Nation Israel has been concluded as "WERE nigh."

Which is this here...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And which Paul also touches on, in this here...

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So, there is all that, and this - which is speaking of a TWO-Fold Purpose - one aspect of concerns the Earth, and another of which concerns things in Heaven...

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Thus, the sense of this here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

...is that the foundation upon which those Apostles and Prophets before Paul had based things concerning Israel on - Jesus Christ - is the same chief corner stone upon which the Mystery preached by the Apostle Paul was also based on - on Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

One aspect concerning Christ is in relation to Him as He...

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Another aspect concerns Him "according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," Romans 16:25.

Same foundation for both; different plan, for each.

Acts 17:11,12; Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

Missing within the reading of many of all that there, is the awareness of a change in things between verse 12 and 13 there, that the Apostle Paul does not go into there, but that an Unawareness of, results in a very different sense of all that there, in Ephesians 2.

I don't see anything missing here. The context does a fine job of explaining it.

Same foundation for both; different plan, for each.

I don't understand your point about how there's a different plan.
The law was done away with at the cross bringing the two into one body at that time.

I agree Romans helps to understand. Those in Israel that didn't believe were broken off and their restoration will be being grafting back in.

Rom. 11:24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

 

[Danoh]

I don't see anything missing here. The context does a fine job of explaining it.



I don't understand your point about how there's a different plan.
The law was done away with at the cross bringing the two into one body at that time.

I agree Romans helps to understand. Those in Israel that didn't believe were broken off and their restoration will be being grafting back in.

Rom. 11:24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree.

:chuckle:

As I noted - missing within the reading OF MANY.

I did not say missing within what Paul wrote.

Rather, within the reading of MANY A READER.

YOU proved my very point.

And no, the Jew and the Gentile were not brought together into one Body at THE TIME OF THE CROSS.

Only some 9 chapters into Acts, do we read of ANY activity AMONG and TO the Gentiles ABSENT of their PHYSICAL distinction "in the flesh made by hands."

That needs to be PROPERLY solved for by the reader.

Instead, the average reader reads things INTO things - all sorts of things.

Exactly what you constantly do.

The distinction in Ephesians 2 is between the Circumcision and the Uncircumcision in Time Past and God is dealing with men At That Time based on that distinction.

In cintrast, the But Now began sometime After the CROSS.

THIS is the "came and preached peace unto you that WERE far off AND them that WERE nigh."

Paul is referring to the Lord's Mystery ministry to BOTH through Paul.

Ten to one, you hold it began with Peter.

Round and round we go with this soundbyte method.

Here, watch this video breakdown of BOTH aspects of God's TWO-Fold Purpose.

Not that you might agree with it, but you'll at least have a better, VERY BASIC, overall outline in one sitting, in contrast to the stop and start of the soundbyte method.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQQDZzYx_FY&app=desktop

Rom. 14:5; 6:7-8.

 

[turbosixx]

That needs to be PROPERLY solved for by the reader.

That's the problem I see with mad. They think the bible is too complicated for us knuckle draggers. We are told to ignore what it plainly says because we can't piece mill it to solve what the truth "really" is.

And no, the Jew and the Gentile were not brought together into one Body at THE TIME OF THE CROSS.

Paul plainly says they came together at the cross. Jesus broke down the dividing wall, the law, by his blood at the cross.
Eph. 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.

The distinction in Ephesians 2 is between the Circumcision and the Uncircumcision in Time Past and God is dealing with men At That Time based on that distinction.

Yep, two groups.

In cintrast, the But Now began sometime After the CROSS.

If grace is based on the blood of Christ, why would it start at any other time but the cross?
Heb. 9:12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.
Are we baptized in the name of Paul? Did Paul go into heaven to present Jesus' blood to God to establish grace?

Ten to one, you hold it began with Peter.

Absolutely. How were these peoples sins forgiven?
Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
The old law? The new law? Something they did?

 

[Danoh]

That's the problem I see with mad. They think the bible is too complicated for us knuckle draggers. We are told to ignore what it plainly says because we can't piece mill it to solve what the truth "really" is...

I can't say I can fully blame you for what is nevertheless still, YOUR conclusion.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-7.

 

[turbosixx]

I can't say I can fully blame you for what is nevertheless still, YOUR conclusion.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-7.

Maybe you’re not fully grasping my conclusion of mad. While I don’t have everything figured out, I do see in the whole bible simplicity, harmony and unity. When I see mad explain the bible, I see complexity, contradiction and division. Here are a few examples.

Paul proclaimed the “gospel of Christ” as the power of God unto salvation, Rom. 1:16. The gospel of Christ began with John the Baptist, Mk. 1:1 but mad would have you believe it can’t be the same gospel because there are many gospels. I believe they are the same.

Paul said the body is the church, Col. 1:18. Paul said he was a persecutor of the church but mad will tell you it’s not the same church because there are many churches and the body started with Paul, more confusion. I believe Paul in that the body and church he persecuted are the same.

This is probably the hardest to swallow. Jesus proclaimed the kingdom was at hand yet mad will tell you 2,000 years later the Jews are still waiting for it. That makes Jesus a false prophet. I believe Jesus and He did establish it.

The list goes on.

 

[Danoh]

Maybe you’re not fully grasping my conclusion of mad. While I don’t have everything figured out, I do see in the whole bible simplicity, harmony and unity. When I see mad explain the bible, I see complexity, contradiction and division. Here are a few examples.

Paul proclaimed the “gospel of Christ” as the power of God unto salvation, Rom. 1:16. The gospel of Christ began with John the Baptist, Mk. 1:1 but mad would have you believe it can’t be the same gospel because there are many gospels. I believe they are the same.

Paul said the body is the church, Col. 1:18. Paul said he was a persecutor of the church but mad will tell you it’s not the same church because there are many churches and the body started with Paul, more confusion. I believe Paul in that the body and church he persecuted are the same.

This is probably the hardest to swallow. Jesus proclaimed the kingdom was at hand yet mad will tell you 2,000 years later the Jews are still waiting for it. That makes Jesus a false prophet. I believe Jesus and He did establish it.

The list goes on.

A little frankness - hopefully, our rapport will continue unaffected by its need.

One, all that is YOUR misunderstanding of so called "MAD."

Two, VERY FEW MADs hold to some of the gospel distinctions that you have been told on here exist.

Three, you are looking at what is being asserted from where YOU look at things, and absent of what you all along have simply been unaware off.

That thing about "from your perspective" was actually sound.

The issue is not that, but whether one or the other is the sound perspective.

And the fact is that the fall on Earth was the result of that fall in Heaven, first.

THIS IS the issue of a TWO-Fold Purpose...

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

And that fall in Heaven has not yet been solved for either...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Until that one is solved for first, this one below, will also remain in chaos...

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done IN earth, AS IT IS IN heaven.

Due to this...

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

And this...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And guess which agency that fallen Heavenly realm is about?

Who is the Adversary and his dark princes now at war with?

Israel still?

Oh really?

Is the Lord over there now?

Is all that physically visible demonic activity so obvious in Matthew thru John the case once more?

No.

For the issue is now with the very agency that fallen Heavenly realm will be replaced by...

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

You simply do not know what you are talking about because these things had never been pointed out to you, and as a result you do not see it from where you learned to look at things from, given your unawareness of it.

I believe your heart is right.

That is ever crystal clear.

What's missing is this distinction between these Two Fallen Realms and God's Plan for each.

Although, I'll tell you this much again, to spit on you for your inability to see these things given how long you have obviously gone unaware of this TWO-Fold Purpose of God, is not exactly representative of those who will one day reign with Him over the Heavenly Realm aspect of said Two-Fold Purpose.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

A little frankness - hopefully, our rapport will continue unaffected by its need.

One, all that is YOUR misunderstanding of so called "MAD."

Two, VERY FEW MADs hold to some of the gospel distinctions that you have been told on here exist.

Three, you are looking at what is being asserted from where YOU look at things, and absent of what you all along have simply been unaware off.

That thing about "from your perspective" was actually sound.

The issue is not that, but whether one or the other is the sound perspective.

And the fact is that the fall on Earth was the result of that fall in Heaven, first.

THIS IS the issue of a TWO-Fold Purpose...

Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

And that fall in Heaven has not yet been solved for either...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Until that one is solved for first, this one will remain in also remain in chaos...

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Due to this...

Luke 4:5 And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it.

And this...

Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And guess which agency that fallen Heavenly realm is about?

Who is the Adversary and his dark princes now at war with?

Israel still?

Oh really?

Is the Lord over there now?

Is all that physically visible demonic activity so obvious in Matthew thru John the case once more?

No.

For the issue is now with the very agency that fallen Heavenly realm will be replaced by...

Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 3:4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

You simply do not know what you are talking about because these things had never been pointed out to you, and as a result you do not see it from where you learned to look at things from given your unawareness of it.

I believe your heart is right.

That is ever crystal clear.

What's missing is this distinction between these Two Fallen Realms and God's Plan for each.

Although, I'll tell you this much again, to spit on you for your inability to see these things given how long you have obviously gone unaware of this TWO-Purpose of God, is not exactly representative of them that will one day reign with Him over the Heavenly Realm aspect of said Two-Fold Purpose.

Philippians 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

I appreciate the frankness, no hard feelings. The only thing I don't care for is personal attacks because I can't see what the other is pushing. I hope you will feel the same.

When I first came to this forum, my intensions were, and still are, to challenge what I understand to be truth. When I first learned of mad, I was taken aback. It's absurdity ranks right up there with believing Joseph Smith was given golden tablets from an angel.

When I look at the state of “Christianity”, I often wonder how intelligent people can believe different things from reading the same bible. For instance, how a catholic can read the bible and see the catholic church in it.

I know you believe I don't know what I'm talking about and that's fine. I take comfort in the fact that my understanding of truth doesn't make Jesus a false prophet.

 

[Danoh]

I appreciate the frankness, no hard feelings. The only thing I don't care for is personal attacks because I can't see what the other is pushing. I hope you will feel the same.

When I first came to this forum, my intensions were, and still are, to challenge what I understand to be truth. When I first learned of mad, I was taken aback. It's absurdity ranks right up there with believing Joseph Smith was given golden tablets from an angel.

When I look at the state of “Christianity”, I often wonder how intelligent people can believe different things from reading the same bible. For instance, how a catholic can read the bible and see the catholic church in it.

I know you believe I don't know what I'm talking about and that's fine. I take comfort in the fact that my understanding of truth doesn't make Jesus a false prophet.

I've said my piece, and the issue for me was to do just that and nothing more.

:chuckle: Until our next go round.

But really, until you YOURSELF find you are fully persuaded in your own mind otherwise, stand your ground; for whatsoever is not of faith to you, is sin, and vice-versa.

Romans 14 is crystal clear on this kind of difference between people of The Book.

I take it we both assume the other is the one weak in the faith as to the sounder understanding of one thing or another.

I am fine with that as well, as instructed to be.

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

And that is even more important when dealing with one who one believes is lost.

2 Corinthians 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We have no excuse for how we carry on when disagreed with, or worse.

None.

Rom. 5:6-8.

 

[turbosixx]

I've said my piece, and the issue for me was to do just that and nothing more.

:chuckle: Until our next go round.

But really, until you YOURSELF find you are fully persuaded in your own mind otherwise, stand your ground; for whatsoever is not of faith to you, is sin, and vice-versa.

Romans 14 is crystal clear on this kind of difference between people of The Book.

I take it we both assume the other is the one weak in the faith as to the sounder understanding of one thing or another.

I am fine with that as well, as instructed to be.

Romans 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

And that is even more important when dealing with one who one believes is lost.

2 Corinthians 5:13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause. 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

We have no excuse for how we carry on when disagreed with, or worse.

None.

Rom. 5:6-8.

I look forward to our next talk. I appreciate you.

 

[DAN P]

Been meaning to address this, for sometime...

The actual sense of this passage here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Which is a part of all this here...

Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

And in all that, the Gentiles are said to have gone from having once been "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:" verse 12...

To verse 13's "But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Missing within the reading of many of all that there, is the awareness of a change in things between verse 12 and 13 there, that the Apostle Paul does not go into there, but that an Unawareness of, results in a very different sense of all that there, in Ephesians 2.

An unawareness of which also results in a mis-fire on the actual sense of this here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Ephesians is Advanced Mystery Truth.

It is a sequel to Romans, and as it's sequel, both builds on, as well also often reiterates various aspects of that Foundational Truth laid out throughout Romans; which is why Paul asserts in Romans chapters 1 and 15 and 16, is he wrote Romans to begin with.

In Romans 1:18-3:20, he lays out how first the Gentiles and then the majority of the Nation Israel BOTH ended up on the wrong side of God's perspective about them.

At the beginning of Romans chapter 3, he briefly touches not only on fact of the existence in Paul's day, of Israel's Believing Remnant, despite the majority of their Nation's fall, but also, on the fact of God's faithfulness to His one day bringing about their Promise.

Paul then goes into much more of all this, in Romans 9-11.

How that despite the fall of the majority of their nation, God is by no means through with what He has purposed to do with, in, and through a Believing Remnant of their Nation, as "a nation" one day.

Which brings us full circle to a fuller sense of what the following passage is actually referring to...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Verse 12, of Ephesians 2 is referring to how things were for the Gentiles when they were on the outside looking in.

But it also refers to how things had been for Israel before their Nation was "concluded... under sin" with the Gentiles...

Which is why we read in..

Ephesians 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

At this point, the Nation Israel has been concluded as "WERE nigh."

Which is this here...

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

And which Paul also touches on, in this here...

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So, there is all that, and this - which is speaking of a TWO-Fold Purpose - one aspect of concerns the Earth, and another of which concerns things in Heaven...

Ephesians 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

Thus, the sense of this here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

...is that the foundation upon which those Apostles and Prophets before Paul had based things concerning Israel on - Jesus Christ - is the same chief corner stone upon which the Mystery preached by the Apostle Paul was also based on - on Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

One aspect concerning Christ is in relation to Him as He...

Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Another aspect concerns Him "according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began," Romans 16:25.

Same foundation for both; different plan, for each.

Acts 17:11,12; Rom. 14:5; Rom. 5:6-8.

Hi and do you say that Eph 2:20 , 1 Cor 3:10 , and 1 Peter 2:6-8 , are the SAME , and if you say YES , how HYBRID of you !!

WRONG if you say YES !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and do you say that Eph 2:20 , 1 Cor 3:10 , and 1 Peter 2:6-8 , are the SAME , and if you say YES , how HYBRID of you !!

WRONG if you say YES !!

dan p

Haven't seen you around in a few days; hope all is well with you.

As for your above babbling on...

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Their foundation - Christ Himself - is the same.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Yep, looks like the hybrid there, is in this case: the Lord's, and the fullness thereof, as to each's respective ministry.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: ) 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Again, bro, welcome back from your brief hiatus.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

 

[DAN P]

Haven't seen you around in a few days; hope all is well with you.

As for your above babbling on...

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

1 Peter 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

Their foundation - Christ Himself - is the same.

Romans 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 3:29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Yep, looks like the hybrid there, is in this case: the Lord's, and the fullness thereof, as to each's respective ministry.

Galatians 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; 2:8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles: ) 2:9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Again, bro, welcome back from your brief hiatus.

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

Hi and , this the best time to relax , instead of working !!

So the Holy Spirit is now a HYBRID , when Paul wrote 1 Cor 3:10 ??

1 Cor 3:10 reads , According to the GRACE of God having been given to me , as a wise Superintendent I HAVE LAID ( THE ) FOUNDATION and another of the same KIND builds up ( on it ) . But let each one TAKE HEED how he builds up ( on it ) .

#1, The fitst verb is in the AORIST TENSE and PASSIVE VOICE and a PARTICIPLE HAVING BEEN GIVEN to ME and it was given to Paul and no BODY ELSE at one time in PAST TIME !!

#2 , The next verb I HAVE LAID is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , which means it was given to start and LAY these foundation and not some one ELSE and this foundation CONTINUES ON until the B O C is taken to be with Christ !!

#3 And the Indicative Mood , says it is a FACT !!

#4 The next verb is BUILDETH / EPOIKODOMEO is in the PRESENT TENSE and means that it was given , by CONTEXT , in the Dispensation of thr Grace of God !!

#5 , The next verb , TAKE HEED / BLEPO is also in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the IMPERATIVE MOOD of COMMAND and telling all to be careful and OBEY IT !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and , this the best time to relax , instead of working !!

So the Holy Spirit is now a HYBRID , when Paul wrote 1 Cor 3:10 ??

1 Cor 3:10 reads , According to the GRACE of God having been given to me , as a wise Superintendent I HAVE LAID ( THE ) FOUNDATION and another of the same KIND builds up ( on it ) . But let each one TAKE HEED how he builds up ( on it ) .

#1, The fitst verb is in the AORIST TENSE and PASSIVE VOICE and a PARTICIPLE HAVING BEEN GIVEN to ME and it was given to Paul and no BODY ELSE at one time in PAST TIME !!

#2 , The next verb I HAVE LAID is in the Greek PERFECT TENSE , which means it was given to start and LAY these foundation and not some one ELSE and this foundation CONTINUES ON until the B O C is taken to be with Christ !!

#3 And the Indicative Mood , says it is a FACT !!

#4 The next verb is BUILDETH / EPOIKODOMEO is in the PRESENT TENSE and means that it was given , by CONTEXT , in the Dispensation of thr Grace of God !!

#5 , The next verb , TAKE HEED / BLEPO is also in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and in the IMPERATIVE MOOD of COMMAND and telling all to be careful and OBEY IT !!

dan p

All a waste in all that Greek - for all Paul is asserting there, in 1 Cor. 3 ONCE MORE to them, is that it was he who began their assembly - try to keep the flow of the man's thought in mind :doh: :chuckle:

Nevertheless, Rom. 14:5; in memory of Rom. 5:6-8, bro.

 

[john w]

Thus, the sense of this here...

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

...is that the foundation upon which those Apostles and Prophets before Paul had based things concerning Israel on - Jesus Christ - is the same chief corner stone upon which the Mystery preached by the Apostle Paul was also based on - on Jesus Christ.

The "apostles and prophets" Paul references in Ephesians 2:20 KJV are not "those Apostles and Prophets before Paul," as you assert, i.e., the "OT prophets and the 12," but the apostles and prophets "From Paul on."

 

[Danoh]

The "apostles and prophets" Paul references in Ephesians 2:20 KJV are not "those Apostles and Prophets before Paul," as you assert, i.e., the "OT prophets and the 12," but the apostles and prophets "From Paul on."

If such were the case alone, Paul would have said so.

But Ephesians 2 is based on chapter 1, which also mentions both saints within the household of God (a one day redeemed Israel AND the Body of Christ).

He mentions both again, in chapter 3, and so on.

He is referring to the foundation ALL the Apostles and Prophets within BOTH aspects of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophesy and Mystery are based on - Jesus Christ Himself: Said TWO-Fold Purpose's Chief Corner Stone.

Ephesians, as with Colossians, are a sum up of both, but with more of an emphasis on the present agency: The Church which is His Body.

Out of ALL of Scripture - Ephesians is THE Key to understanding BOTH aspects of
God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

It IS the very CAPSTONE to the WHOLE of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

Boy are you guys behind :chuckle:

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

 

[DAN P]

If such were the case alone, Paul would have said so.

But Ephesians 2 is based on chapter 1, which also mentions both saints within the household of God (a one day redeemed Israel AND the Body of Christ).

He mentions both again, in chapter 3, and so on.

He is referring to the foundation ALL the Apostles and Prophets within BOTH aspects of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophesy and Mystery are based on - Jesus Christ Himself: Said TWO-Fold Purpose's Chief Corner Stone.

Ephesians, as with Colossians, are a sum up of both, but with more of an emphasis on the present agency: The Church which is His Body.

Out of ALL of Scripture - Ephesians is THE Key to understanding BOTH aspects of
God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

It IS the very CAPSTONE to the WHOLE of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

Boy are you guys behind :chuckle:

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

Hi and I and John W are right on and the PERFECT TENSE makes your HYBRID explanation ANEMIA and causes your HYBRIBREARTH unsound and and CAUSES unsound DISEASES and cause a JAPERY among REAL DISPENSATIONALISM !!

And the other reason you are wrong is because Israel EVEN DURING Paul's time HAD ALREADY BEEN SET ASIDE , 2 Cor 3:13-15 , TAKE THAT AND THATTTTTT !!

dan p

 

[Danoh]

Hi and I and John W are right on and the PERFECT TENSE makes your HYBRID explanation ANEMIA and causes your HYBRIBREARTH unsound and and CAUSES unsound DISEASES and cause a JAPERY among REAL DISPENSATIONALISM !!

And the other reason you are wrong is because Israel EVEN DURING Paul's time HAD ALREADY BEEN SET ASIDE , 2 Cor 3:13-15 , TAKE THAT AND THATTTTTT !!

dan p

Is future Israel depicted as set aside in Eph. 1:10; 3:15; etc.?

You amatuer, you

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

 

[john w]

If such were the case alone, Paul would have said so.But Ephesians 2 is based on chapter 1, which also mentions both saints within the household of God (a one day redeemed Israel AND the Body of Christ).

He mentions both again, in chapter 3, and so on.

He is referring to the foundation ALL the Apostles and Prophets within BOTH aspects of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophesy and Mystery are based on - Jesus Christ Himself: Said TWO-Fold Purpose's Chief Corner Stone.

Ephesians, as with Colossians, are a sum up of both, but with more of an emphasis on the present agency: The Church which is His Body.

Out of ALL of Scripture - Ephesians is THE Key to understanding BOTH aspects of
God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

It IS the very CAPSTONE to the WHOLE of God's TWO-Fold Purpose: Prophecy and Mystery.

Boy are you guys behind :chuckle:

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

Wrong-you are not paying attention to details of the book- a book of details. To wit:


The Ephesians passage,you cite, referencing "apostles and the prophets," is not referencing the prophets and the 12 apostles, OT through "pre-Paul"-your "argument." It is referencing the apostles and prophets, "Paul, and going forward.=not "the twelve apostles of the Lamb" in Revelation 21:14 KJV.



Vs.

Note, the chronological order, "pre Paul"=OT up until Paul:



Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:

First, prophets; then, apostles-the 12.


2 Peter 3:2 KJV

That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

Prophets first, then the 12 apostles.

Vs.

From Paul, on...

1 Corinthians 12:28 KJV


And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.


Chronological order-book of details....

"first apostles"

"secondarily prophets"

Memorize it. Details. Survey Acts...Paul, first, apostle...Barnabus, an apostle.....then prophets....


Confirmed-order-apostles, then prophets:

Ephesians 2:20 KJV

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;


Ephesians 3:5 KJV

Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Indeed, Danoh, many "anti-dispy/MAD/mystery" members of the boc use Ephesians 3:5 KJV, to assert, "See!!!!The 12 knew about the mystery of which Paul spoke-Ephesians 3:5 KJV-revealed unto his holy apostles........the 12!!!!!!"


No, the "his holy apostles and prophets" is not referencing OT prophets and the 12 apostles(notice the chron. order), but the apostles and prophets from Paul, going forward(again, notice chronological order).


Accept it.

But then, again-you are always right.

 

[DAN P]

Is future Israel depicted as set aside in Eph. 1:10; 3:15; etc.?

You amatuer, you

Rom. 14:5; 5:6-8.

Hi and IF you can not explain 2 Cor 3:13-15 you are not even a GOOD HYBRID AMATEUR with no GOOD HYBRID COMPREHENSION and pray that the Holy Spirit will do a rewrite for your level !!

Otherwise Eph 3:9 and the AGES !!

dan p