A Reply to Dave Miller

[Mateo]

Not that I know of. His whole life was rather .... shifted... at one point. So I seriously doubt TOL was the reason he chose to become apostate.

Interesting concept though. How much do other people play a role in your relationship with Christ?

When asked by someone if TOL played any part in his descision Granite replied...

If it did contribute to this, the influence was minimal.

I certainly got a broader idea about what else was out there, how others outside the church thought, what have you. And I certainly saw a side to Christianity--a certain bitterness, anger, intolerance; whatever--that I wasn't used to.

Maybe it took seeing it in print, in front of me, to really start looking at things differently.

As to your question don't you think it a bit overbroad? Could you give me some idea of where you're trying to go with this?

 

[Mateo]

Not so:

"those who do have any real interest"

You made a judgment as to the intention, which is a heart issue.

Once again you duck the point and shift focus. You do it every....single....time....

 

[Nineveh]

Perhaps I learned the technique from you then.

 

[Nineveh]

While we're on the subject... didn't Granite say this website played a direct role in his rejection of Christianity?

"If it did contribute to this, the influence was minimal."

Guess that sums it all up.

As to your question don't you think it a bit overbroad? Could you give me some idea of where you're trying to go with this?

Not really.

You seemed to want to elude to TOL ( or rather the people of ) driving someone else away from their Faith in Christ. I was interested in knowing how much other people play a role in your Faith.

 

[Ecumenicist]

Nin,

You advocate occasional harsh rebukes, which I don't disagree with completely. But
again, I believe this hilites the absolute value and necessity of a "fruits of the Spirit"
based evaluation standard.

Planting a seed and seeing what fruit it will bear is a long term view of things. I will harshly rebuke a person who is intent on hurting another person, as I hope that the fruits from
that effort will be peace, love, kindness.

Bottom line, if a harsh rebuke has a long term effect of driving someone from Christ,
then its no good!!!

 

[Nineveh]

You advocate occasional harsh rebukes, which I don't disagree with completely. But again, I believe this hilites the absolute value and necessity of a "fruits of the Spirit" based evaluation standard.

I've never said discernment wasn't part of judgement or rebuke. In fact, I advocate judging rightly.

Planting a seed and seeing what fruit it will bear is a long term view of things. I will harshly rebuke a person who is intent on hurting another person, as I hope that the fruits from
that effort will be peace, love, kindness.

Bottom line, if a harsh rebuke has a long term effect of driving someone from Christ,
then its no good!!!

But you don't get to make that call now do you? What the Spirit does is beyond your control.

Would you please answer my question now?

 

[Mateo]

Perhaps I learned the technique from you then.

Why does every attempt at communication with you have to be a game of counting coup?

 

[Nineveh]

Do you ever address a reply or just spam?

 

[Mateo]

Do you ever address a reply or just spam?

You want a "reply addressed"? You got it. You and your friends have repeately justified your ugliness to others buy pointing out that Jesus was a little less than amiable to some during His career. What you and your friends deliberately ignore is who He aimed His verbal missles at. It was a very select group. Can you name them?....




.... You can but you won't for two reasons.


1) You think that this is some sort of game of intellectual ping pong in which you are simply required to get the ball back over the net and what the other person is actually trying to say is irrelevant.

2) You are one of "them".

 

[Nineveh]

You want a "reply addressed"? You got it.

Thank you

You and your friends have repeately justified your ugliness to others buy pointing out that Jesus was a little less than amiable to some during His career. What you and your friends deliberately ignore is who He aimed His verbal missles at. It was a very select group. Can you name them?....

Pharisees and money changers.

.... You can but you won't for two reasons.

Oh, ok. Guess I should have read a little further before I replied so I would know what you expected of me.

1) You think that this is some sort of game of intellectual ping pong in which you are simply required to get the ball back over the net and what the other person is actually trying to say is irrelevant.

No, not now. The thread served most of it's purpose on post 158. So it's basically a dead thread now as far as topic goes.

2) You are one of "them".

Which, a legalist that worships ( and makes up ) rules rather than Christ, or one who defiles the temple?

 

[Mateo]

Dear heart, any and all non-Enyartians must be rebutted regardless of what they say in your world... doesn't this get the least bit... boring after a while?...



BTW, Your list of those Jesus took umbrage with is a little shy of complete....





.... I rekin' that's not without reason as well...

 

[The Edge]

Mateo, it's useless. It seems as though Nineveh only knows how to point fingers at others. Notice how any time you accuse her of something she did, and even though you are able to prove it and provide quotes, she just accuses you of something? Notice in the Enyartian thread and here, she and I have been discussing forgiveness and repentance, and she believes that after salvation there's no need to be humble and pray to God for forgiveness because she thinks she doesn't sin after salvation. She won't back down, she won't give in, and she won't ever admit she's wrong. That's one of the trademarks of a hardcore Enyartite. Continue to discuss, for it'll just sharpen your own beliefs. That's why I continue to discuss with people I disagree with; it forces me to do research and reinforce what I believe. And that is how this site touches my life. As for whether I would like to hang out with people here in person, well, I can only think of 4 or 5 people here that I would actually love to meet face to face. The others, I can do without.

 

[Mateo]

Mateo, it's useless. It seems as though Nineveh only knows how to point fingers at others. Notice how any time you accuse her of something she did, and even though you are able to prove it and provide quotes, she just accuses you of something? Notice in the Enyartian thread and here, she and I have been discussing forgiveness and repentance, and she believes that after salvation there's no need to be humble and pray to God for forgiveness because she thinks she doesn't sin after salvation. She won't back down, she won't give in, and she won't ever admit she's wrong. That's one of the trademarks of a hardcore Enyartite. Continue to discuss, for it'll just sharpen your own beliefs. That's why I continue to discuss with people I disagree with; it forces me to do research and reinforce what I believe. And that is how this site touches my life. As for whether I would like to hang out with people here in person, well, I can only think of 4 or 5 people here that I would actually love to meet face to face. The others, I can do without.

One gets their edification when and where they can, I supose. I used to get some edification from these little back and forths as they do tend to send you back to the scriptures but anymore it's more of a responsibility for me. I can't find the time or inclination to do it all the time but every so often I'm compelled to poke my head in here and do what I can to stem the tide of the errosion of the gospel that not only finds this bunch preaching a Christ of contention but now, sadly, a Christ of hate. It's exactly this sort of thing that wouldbe athiests point to as the reason they reject Christianity and if it were truly christianity I couldn't blame them.





Come Lord.

 

[Nineveh]

Dear heart, any and all non-Enyartians must be rebutted regardless of what they say in your world... doesn't this get the least bit... boring after a while?...

What I don't understand is how you feel justified being rude to those who advocatre being rude ( in context ) and judgemental to those who advocate judging rightly without being a hypocrite.

BTW, Your list of those Jesus took umbrage with is a little shy of complete....


.... I rekin' that's not without reason as well...

Oh, well that was edifying LOL

 

[Big Finn]

Nineveh,

I was going to answer you but I don't think I'll waste my time.


Mateo and Edge,

This thread and the ensuing discussion with Nineveh is the proof that harshness just doesn't work. If harshness actually worked Nineveh would listen to us when we've been harsh with her, those of us who disagree with her would listen to her because she harsh 90% of the time, etc.... Obviously neither side listens to harshness so our point is proven.

The Enyart method is a total failure because there is absolutely no evidence that it works. There is, however, lots of evidence that it doesn't work. This entire site is evidence that it doesn't work because the harsher the Enyartian (I no longer call them Christian for they follow a man other than Jesus Christ) disciples get with athiests, homosexuals, any Christian that doesn't agree with Enyartian theology, etc... the less any of us seriously consider what they have to say. So, the evidence points to one thing and one thing only. Enyartianity (I just coined that one ) closes minds rather than opening them. But then, that ought to be self-evident as atheists and homosexuals have been using Enyartian tactics against them for years and the Enyartians never listen to them. I guess there are none so blind as they who will not see. They are surrounded by their own total failure and can't see it.

 

[Nineveh]

Mateo, it's useless. It seems as though Nineveh only knows how to point fingers at others. Notice how any time you accuse her of something she did, and even though you are able to prove it and provide quotes, she just accuses you of something? Notice in the Enyartian thread and here, she and I have been discussing forgiveness and repentance, and she believes that after salvation there's no need to be humble and pray to God for forgiveness because she thinks she doesn't sin after salvation. She won't back down, she won't give in, and she won't ever admit she's wrong. That's one of the trademarks of a hardcore Enyartite. Continue to discuss, for it'll just sharpen your own beliefs. That's why I continue to discuss with people I disagree with; it forces me to do research and reinforce what I believe. And that is how this site touches my life. As for whether I would like to hang out with people here in person, well, I can only think of 4 or 5 people here that I would actually love to meet face to face. The others, I can do without.

And it's only been 8 days since "between us"?

Remember the last line? "None on my end, I simply do not trust your judgement any longer." Thank you for proving my point

 

[Nineveh]

This thread and the ensuing discussion with Nineveh is the proof that harshness just doesn't work.

Firstly, what is this thread about?

Secondly, you must have missed post 158.

 

[Big Finn]

Firstly, what is this thread about?

Secondly, you must have missed post 158.

ROTFL!!!

So, that somebody chooses to not deal the same way with you that you deal with them is evidence to you that you are correct???? Just where is the evidence that you changed his mind on anything important???? Just how did you convince him that harshness is good??? Just how did you convince him that Christian's don't have to ask for forgiveness from God for their sins after their initial conversion???? Those are the root of the problem he has with your thinking. I don't see that Dave Miller changed his mind on anything of importance. All he did was show he is honest. He is still just as opposed to Enyartianity as he ever was.

.... and you call that post "evidence" of a "victory".... ROTFL You're hilarious....

 

[Caille]

The Enyart method is a total failure because there is absolutely no evidence that it works.

Of course it works. He's still broadcasting, isn't he? The money's still rolling in, right?




The key is to remember that Bob works in the entertainment industry. Controversy boosts sales (or donations). That's why I view KGOV as just another freak show little different than Howard Stern. They're not really meant to be taken seriously.

 

[Mateo]

Nineveh,

I was going to answer you but I don't think I'll waste my time.


Mateo and Edge,

This thread and the ensuing discussion with Nineveh is the proof that harshness just doesn't work. If harshness actually worked Nineveh would listen to us when we've been harsh with her, those of us who disagree with her would listen to her because she harsh 90% of the time, etc.... Obviously neither side listens to harshness so our point is proven.

The Enyart method is a total failure because there is absolutely no evidence that it works. There is, however, lots of evidence that it doesn't work. This entire site is evidence that it doesn't work because the harsher the Enyartian (I no longer call them Christian for they follow a man other than Jesus Christ) disciples get with athiests, homosexuals, any Christian that doesn't agree with Enyartian theology, etc... the less any of us seriously consider what they have to say. So, the evidence points to one thing and one thing only. Enyartianity (I just coined that one ) closes minds rather than opening them. But then, that ought to be self-evident as atheists and homosexuals have been using Enyartian tactics against them for years and the Enyartians never listen to them. I guess there are none so blind as they who will not see. They are surrounded by their own total failure and can't see it.

Enyartianity.... he he... that's a keeper.


I'm starting to see some paralells between this phenomenon (Enyartianity) and some of what I've seen of the responses concerning the "victim mentality" on another forum. Abuse begets abuse as is evidenced by the fact that most abusers were themselves abused as well. Breaking this cycle can be very difficult. It's for sure more abuse is not the answer.
In like manner verbally abusing someone to get them to turn to Christ is the equivalent of fighting for peace. The only peace achieved is the peace of the grave.

What developes in this atmosphere is a bunker mentality where no one is willing to give an inch or show contrition or vulnerablity for fear of being seen as weak or being publically savaged and/or ridiculed. Hense a thread on the "victimhood mentality" died a quick death here but flourished at another forum where a certain level of decorum and civility are required of one and all or they are shown the door.

As a vehicle for winning souls to Christ, Enyartianity and the website it has spawned are a miserable failure. As lowest common denomiator entertainment and a tool of self justification for those inclined toward ugliness it's been a moderate success.



If the fruits are any indicator, the two have succeeded in that for which they were intended....