BrianJOrr
New member
Define 'enable'?
And how is your will not influenced by the Spirit?
What is 'regeneration'?
Theology Club: A Question for Open Theists
- Thread starter BrianJOrr
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Define 'enable'?
And how is your will not influenced by the Spirit?
What is 'regeneration'?
Divine enablement means when God elected me to salvation from eternity past I was required to believe the plan of salvation - the gospel but because of total depravity I could not believe God or come to God on my own, he had to draw me and enable me to carry out that which he elected me to do which was to accept the gospel message. Influenced is another way of looking at this but I think the better term is divine enabling. God provided the ability for the elect to come to the Son by faith and when we do we are regenerated. What Adam lost was spiritual life, he became spiritually dead but when he believed God his spirit was made alive within him and he once again could fellowship with God.
Lon
Well-known member
By gift? Was the 'ability' to choose sin God's design? Matthew 6:24 Luke 16:13
It is true you chose and that God directs.
John 15:16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last--and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you.
And without him I could not do anything.
1 John 4:10
Yes, not sure how 'enabled' is different from 'influenced' though :idunno: Guided vs. forced?
Acts 8:26 God can force me wherever he likes. There is no sanctity of my will, only His.
If you and I disagree on something and I show you something that convinces you that I am right then I have influenced you, but I have not violated your will.
Now you're making assumptions about the will of man and what it wants.
This thread was opened to ask a question of open theists, not Calvinists.
It looks more like it was opened so that Bore could have a link to go with his straw men.
That too.
BrianJOrr
New member
Your assumption is faulty. The Scripture does not say that man can if his will is convinced to follow God's law; rather, man apart from the Spirit cannot submit. Carnal man lives by the flesh.
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard his spots? Then also you can do good who are accustomed to do evil" (Jeremiah 13:23).
"Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God" (Romans 8:7-8).
One is only persuaded to choose when God has given him a new heart, spiritual regeneration of his heart of stone, to obey and submit to his law. Only then can he see clearly which path leads to righteousness (the kingdom) and which path leads to damnation.
Jesus explains how one can see the kingdom:
"Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Nicodemus said to him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit" (John 3:3-8).
Where in this passage do you see one who is born of the flesh having his carnal mind persuaded to see the kingdom, so he can choose to enter it? You don't. He cannot see it. That's the point! That's why Nicodemus was baffled; he was theteacher of Israel and you would think of all people he would have been able to see it.
He had to be born again, which is up to the will of the Spirit, not man.
"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit."
However, its important that you understand that it is not the Spirit forcing man to choose (I see that is a misconception among OTs). Man has already made his choice (Romans 1), so God gave him over to the consequence of their folly. But when the Spirit comes and penetrates man's heart, through the preaching of the gospel, it gives him a new heart of flesh, which freely sees, desires, and chooses Christ, turning from sin, and freely submitting to God's law.
No forcing or coercion of man's will in any way; rather, God extends his grace by doing a supernatural work in the dead heart, which only desires to serve idols, to serve the living God.
That is amazing grace.
technically, how can "open theism" be "true" ? IT can't and isn't -atrol
Did someone say it was? :idunno:
He did not when He would return.
Something wrong?
Suit yourself. :idunno:
But the carnal mind can be transformed.
What version are you quoting? That phrasing is grammatically atrocious.
You're not telling me anything I don't already know.
Do you have Scripture that states that?
Forget trying to debate; you're going to present nothing but circular logic.
How about you explain why God, according to you, chooses not to regenerate some people.
It is your fault you answered the question from the POV of a Calvinist.
Of course. There are things He doesn't want to know, and things that hae yet to happen.
That is not what he said.