2P2P owes everyone one clear NT paragraph saying the land promise stands

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Interplanner

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Hi and where is the NEW COVENANT mentioned in 2 Cor 5 ??

Do you mean Heb 8:8 or Jer 31:31 OR Ezek 36:24 where God will bring them BACK into your LAND , how about that IP , BACK TO NTHEIR LAND !!

Ezek 36: 24 DROWNS YOUR SHIP !!

dan p



Instead of drifting off miles away from 2 Cor 5, how about looking at expression he just used 1 chapter earlier, or 2? That's where he said what kind of minister he was in the new covenant, and continued on.

How is it that with all that time (3 chapters) he NEVER once says: now remember all this is around and beside the land promise, which is God's "other" program in which every rule, ethic, phrase, term has a completely different meaning, because that's OK because God is bi-polar, or schitzophrenic, and wants the Bible to be confusing.
 

Danoh

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Instead of drifting off miles away from 2 Cor 5, how about looking at expression he just used 1 chapter earlier, or 2? That's where he said what kind of minister he was in the new covenant, and continued on.

How is it that with all that time (3 chapters) he NEVER once says: now remember all this is around and beside the land promise, which is God's "other" program in which every rule, ethic, phrase, term has a completely different meaning, because that's OK because God is bi-polar, or schitzophrenic, and wants the Bible to be confusing.

Don't blame the MADist for you having run off to the bookstore when you could have just stuck it out in Scripture; as we are each supposed to.

In 2 Cor. 3, and elsewhere, in his writings, Paul is talking about that aspect or "sufficiency" in Christ promised in Israel's New Testament to Israel that Christ's blood made possible, and that the Spirit of God will enable the Israelite's spirit to walk in one day, but that the Spirit of God was now making the Gentiles' spirit "able" to walk in.

Its the same God; the same Christ; the same Spirit; the same enabling - but - it is neither by Covenant, nor unto the same purpose.

Israel; saved according to God's Covenant with Abraham; will be enabled to keep the Law (the Law is what identifies them as the people of God on the earth in the sight of the nations, Dt. 4:5-8; Rm. 2:17-20; 3:1-3, etc.).

In contrast, those lost Jews and Gentiles saved this side of Israel's temporary fall, and raising up of the Apostle of the Gentiles, are BOTH saved AS GENTILES - by Grace; absent of Covenant, Rm. 3-5; Eph. 2, etc.).

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. 2:15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 3:6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 3:7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. 3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

In fact, much of the issues described in 2 Cor. 3, are the same enablement issues described, say, in Romans 6-8.

The latter part of 2 Cor. 3 matching issues (concerning Israel's yet future spiritual liberating, described also, in Romans 9-11, and so on).
 

Nick M

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MAD is based on the finer details within one thing or another, is it not?

My beliefs are what the Bible says. Six days means six days. Analogies are sometimes used, as are figures of speech. That is taken into account. Israel stood to inherit land forever, that isn't a figure of speech. The 12 apostles will judge the 12 tribes. That is not a figure of speech.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
My beliefs are what the Bible says. Six days means six days. Analogies are sometimes used, as are figures of speech. That is taken into account. Israel stood to inherit land forever, that isn't a figure of speech. The 12 apostles will judge the 12 tribes. That is not a figure of speech.



But advanced study of the NT shows there are other things to consider. The main thing is how all previous 'types/images/themes' are fulfilled in Christ. Ie, the new David, the new exodus, the new passover, etc. The city that hovers in Rev 21 has a foundation of apostles but gatenames (not gates) of tribes. Why would this not be a picture of the new Israel?

David's throne 'will not lack a man' yet David saw the resurrection as the enthronement of Christ in Acts 2:30, specifically stated by Peter who had just been taught for 40 days by Christ. And no land promise.

More literal problems: if the land is forever, it must be somewhere else than the earth because this earth will be destroyed/melted down and the NHNE will take its place. The "land" is life with Christ on the NHNE. that's the only reasonable outcome. There are many places where 'forever' in the OT is simply beyond 4 generations, which has some kind of significance as it was mentioned in the 10 commands. So a blessing or curse might be given 'forever' (for ex a curse on a city) but several hundred years later, there's the city back at it.

As you know, we now have the 2P2P streetgang saying Hebrews' 'Christ tasted death for every man' no longer means every Gentile man. It only means Jews. Literalism is actually a subdivision of 2P2P which is a distant relation of Judaism.

Literalism further says the 6 days in Genesis are just that, but in Mt 24, when he explains in detail some awful things that will happen in Judea for which the listeners should be careful, he doesn't mean them. "you" (here now) does not mean you here now. It means people X000 years in the future. All to please 2P2P as a god.

We now have the 2P2P streetgang also saying the new covenant is not now. I don't think some of them think 2 Cor 3 is even in the Bible.

They even fight me about the biological meaning of Lk 23's babies-become-adults. That's 20, maybe 30 years in that context. No, says 2P2P, it's about X000 years in the future, because of the expression about the mountains falling on us, which has to be in the future because 2P2P tells them the Rev is in the future. In fact, 2P2P thinks everyone in the NT is pretty much obsessed with and operates daily thinking about things X000 years in the future. Because then it's about us.

So things are not as simple as you might think.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
But advanced study of the NT shows there are other things to consider. The main thing is how all previous 'types/images/themes' are fulfilled in Christ. Ie, the new David, the new exodus, the new passover, etc. The city that hovers in Rev 21 has a foundation of apostles but gatenames (not gates) of tribes. Why would this not be a picture of the new Israel?

David's throne 'will not lack a man' yet David saw the resurrection as the enthronement of Christ in Acts 2:30, specifically stated by Peter who had just been taught for 40 days by Christ. And no land promise.

More literal problems: if the land is forever, it must be somewhere else than the earth because this earth will be destroyed/melted down and the NHNE will take its place. The "land" is life with Christ on the NHNE. that's the only reasonable outcome. There are many places where 'forever' in the OT is simply beyond 4 generations, which has some kind of significance as it was mentioned in the 10 commands. So a blessing or curse might be given 'forever' (for ex a curse on a city) but several hundred years later, there's the city back at it.

As you know, we now have the 2P2P streetgang saying Hebrews' 'Christ tasted death for every man' no longer means every Gentile man. It only means Jews. Literalism is actually a subdivision of 2P2P which is a distant relation of Judaism.

Literalism further says the 6 days in Genesis are just that, but in Mt 24, when he explains in detail some awful things that will happen in Judea for which the listeners should be careful, he doesn't mean them. "you" (here now) does not mean you here now. It means people X000 years in the future. All to please 2P2P as a god.

We now have the 2P2P streetgang also saying the new covenant is not now. I don't think some of them think 2 Cor 3 is even in the Bible.

They even fight me about the biological meaning of Lk 23's babies-become-adults. That's 20, maybe 30 years in that context. No, says 2P2P, it's about X000 years in the future, because of the expression about the mountains falling on us, which has to be in the future because 2P2P tells them the Rev is in the future. In fact, 2P2P thinks everyone in the NT is pretty much obsessed with and operates daily thinking about things X000 years in the future. Because then it's about us.

So things are not as simple as you might think.

:chuckle:
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
IP's goal is to figure out the Bible without actually believing it.
If he were to believe it first, it would open up for him.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
How is it that with all that time (3 chapters) he NEVER once says: now remember all this is around and beside the land promise, which is God's "other" program in which every rule, ethic, phrase, term has a completely different meaning, because that's OK because God is bi-polar, or schitzophrenic, and wants the Bible to be confusing.

Why is your entire belief system built upon what the Bible does not say?
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
As a further example of how 2P2P is off by one era, JerryS has been trying to make Acts 15's 'After this...' refer to the millenium. The truly odd thing about this is that it is not in a 'doctrinal' paragraph section like Eph 1. It is found instead in the middle of a fairly tense exchange of the apostles that had the potential to be quite disruptive. The answers were things going on right before them.

the upshot is that 2P2P is obsessed with X000 years in the future, and unable to assess the drama on the stage at the time. Where do these people come from?
 

Tambora

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We do not need one. We have hundreds of references to the land in the prophets. We believe them.
You need to show us the land cancellation in the NT. Can you do that?
Nope, he cannot.

But we can affirm that it has not been cancelled out of the NT.

Romans 11:29 KJV
(29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


We are assured of it.


Acts 1:6-7 KJV
(6) When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
(7) And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.




They ask about the restoration because they believed in the promises of GOD (as we all should).
Since the Father does know the time it will happen, there will be a time it happens.

There is no cancellation.
 

Tambora

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We just don't have the right commentaries and the intellectual capacity to understand how God's promises are fulfilled in the exact opposite way they were promised. Maybe one day we can attain to IP's level.
He just hasn't read all the commentaries there are.
He ignores what scripture says just like he ignores all those commentaries that say the land will be restored as GOD promised.
 

Tambora

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Perhaps he, like Satan, does not really want the LORD to rule over the earth.
That's why the word of GOD should be trusted by all, instead of the false accusations of Satan.


Luke 24:44 KJV
(44) And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.


Acts 3:21 KJV
(21) Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


Romans 11:29 KJV
(29) For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
 
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