$1M Alligator Shoes Please

[Granite]

Wait a second: one minute Jefferson's saying "the masses" want to lie around, drink beer, and essentially be lazy--the next minute he says he'd rather have one of these Joe Blows in the White House as opposed to a batch of professional politicians?

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by granite1010
Wait a second: one minute Jefferson's saying "the masses" want to lie around, drink beer, and essentially be lazy--the next minute he says he'd rather have one of these Joe Blows in the White House as opposed to a batch of professional politicians?

Well, if they're lying around drinking beer then they're not persecuting him.

Ingenious, ain't it?

:chuckle:

 

[Granite]

"There should be a test oath in order to qualify as a candidate for the lottery."

So would the oath prohibit anyone but a professing Christian (in all shapes, sizes, colors, and flavors; in other words, whatever "Christian" happens to mean to a handful of people) from taking office?

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Jukia
Is the constitution based on the Old Testament or New Testament?

Both.

And perhaps you are on the way to getting what you want with George II in the White House.

That was a joke, right? Please tell me that was a joke.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by Gerald

China takes Taiwan and steps up its persecution of Christians, and tells America that if it intervenes in any way, overt or covert, it will be hit by nuclear bombs.

Get out of that one, bright boy; Fortress America™ doesn't work in the nuclear age...

If it would not be in our national interest to intervene, we stay out of it.

Gee, that was a tough one "bright boy."

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010
Wait a second: one minute Jefferson's saying "the masses" want to lie around, drink beer, and essentially be lazy--the next minute he says he'd rather have one of these Joe Blows in the White House as opposed to a batch of professional politicians?

Joe Blow has not had a life-long power hungry obsession with "lording it over" his neighbor. Sounds just like the guy I want to put in charge.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Jefferson

Joe Blow has not had a life-long power hungry obsession with "lording it over" his neighbor. Sounds just like the guy I want to put in charge.

No, he might just happen to be a drunk, a sociopath, or even gay. Himmler was a chicken farmer. It doesn't matter how simple or humble someone seems: put them in power and see how quickly they get drunk with it.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010
So would the oath prohibit anyone but a professing Christian (in all shapes, sizes, colors, and flavors; in other words, whatever "Christian" happens to mean to a handful of people) from taking office?

The Christian oath would contain the following:

"There is one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven: by the Holy Spirit He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried.

On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory. With His saints He will judge the living and the dead.

And His kingdom will have no end. There is one Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped. He has spoken through the prophets and through the Scriptures.

God established the Body of Christ into which the Holy Spirit baptizes every new believer. God offers salvation by grace through faith alone in the resurrected Christ.

The Bible records the true history of man including that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six literal days; only eight people survived a global flood; through great wonders God delivered Israel from Egypt; the prophets, Christ, and the apostles performed many supernatural miracles.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God.

God legislated morality out of love for His creation.

Men who reject God will suffer eternal damnation.

Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent.

One day God will resurrect the dead, punish the unbelievers, and reward those whom He has justified with the life of the world to come.

Amen."

 

[Gerald]

Abandoning the brethren to their fate, are you...?

Abandoning the brethren to their fate, are you...?

Originally posted by Jefferson
If it would not be in our national interest to intervene, we stay out of it.

Now there is an interesting question: is it in the national interest to come to the aid of those brethren suffering under the Heel of Oppression™?

To all appearances, if you were king, you would make no moves to aid those brethren; it is not profitable to expend blood and treasure to help them.

One supposes that they could take comfort in the notion that being, say, tortured to death is a small price to pay for eternity in heaven...

You've made vague noises about using trade sanctions to deal with this sort of thing; problem is, sanctions don't work on countries with fully developed industrial infrastructure.

 

[Granite]

Jefferson, Lincoln, and other admirable presidents would all refuse to take such an oath.

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Jefferson

The Christian oath would contain the following:

"There is one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. There is one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father.

Through Him all things were made. For us and for our salvation He came down from heaven: by the Holy Spirit He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man.

For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried.

On the third day He rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father.

He will come again in glory. With His saints He will judge the living and the dead.

And His kingdom will have no end. There is one Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped. He has spoken through the prophets and through the Scriptures.

God established the Body of Christ into which the Holy Spirit baptizes every new believer. God offers salvation by grace through faith alone in the resurrected Christ.

The Bible records the true history of man including that God created the heavens and the earth and everything in them in six literal days; only eight people survived a global flood; through great wonders God delivered Israel from Egypt; the prophets, Christ, and the apostles performed many supernatural miracles.

The Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments, in their original state, are the inspired Word of God.

God legislated morality out of love for His creation.

Men who reject God will suffer eternal damnation.

Christ commands His followers to rebuke and to judge with righteous judgment and to forgive those who repent.

One day God will resurrect the dead, punish the unbelievers, and reward those whom He has justified with the life of the world to come.

Amen."

A variant on the Nicene Creed.

:ha:

I can say that standing on my head!

Looks like I'm eligible for the lottery...

:chuckle:

 

[Granite]

Taking an oath means and proves absolutely nothing, as far as politics are concerned. Taking an oath to the constitution has done nothing to detract certain presidents from ignoring or harming it.

Again: since many of our greatest presidents were by no stretch of the imagination cookie cutter, church-going Christians, would we potentially sacrifice a good leader based on his (orher) reluctance to take this oath?

 

[Jefferson]

Re: Abandoning the brethren to their fate, are you...?

Re: Abandoning the brethren to their fate, are you...?

Originally posted by Gerald

Now there is an interesting question: is it in the national interest to come to the aid of those brethren suffering under the Heel of Oppression™?

To all appearances, if you were king, you would make no moves to aid those brethren; it is not profitable to expend blood and treasure to help them.

Who said anything about "profit?"

It would be in our national interest to free our neighbors living undery tryanny (ex. Iraq under Saddam). Messing with China would be a different story. These are EASY Gerald. Give me something hard.

 

[Jefferson]

Originally posted by granite1010
Taking an oath to the constitution has done nothing to detract certain presidents from ignoring or harming it.

So then, since you admit the U.S. constitution is so easily ignored, why do you have so much faith in our system?

 

[Yorzhik]

That's the nice thing about living in a democracy. If you want the politicians to do something differently all you have to do is convince enough of their constituents to agree with you and vote accordingly.

That's the nice thing about living in a democracy. If you want the wolves, who are the majority, to do something differently (like eat grass instead of mutton) all you have to do is convince enough of them to agree with you sheep (who are the minority) and vote accordingly.

 

[Granite]

Originally posted by Jefferson

So then, since you admit the U.S. constitution is so easily ignored, why do you have so much faith in our system?

I didn't say that I did. I'm opposed to your alternative. And to the ramifications of imposing the requirement of an oath.

 

[Flipper]

Jefferson:

That's what people have been doing in this country. And look at the result: Social conflict between various groups of people. Which, by the way, is exactly what power hungry people like to see.

Riiiight. Of course, everyone opposed to theocracies will take this blatant overthrow of the Constitution lying down. Come to think of it, isn't it a US citizen's duty to violently oppose such attempts?

Of course, as there will be no ballot box to go to register our displeasure, the gun is the only alternative left.

Such a stable and safe system, we will have, racked by civil guerrilla war.

I don't suppose you'll also be legalizing automatic weapons as well, will you?

 

[Gerald]

Re: Re: Abandoning the brethren to their fate, are you...?

Re: Re: Abandoning the brethren to their fate, are you...?

Originally posted by Jefferson

Who said anything about "profit?"

It would be in our national interest to free our neighbors living undery tryanny (ex. Iraq under Saddam). Messing with China would be a different story. These are EASY Gerald. Give me something hard.

How is messing with China a "different story"? Tyranny is tyranny, no matter who is doing it.

What "neighbors" did we free from Saddam's tyranny? There are hardly any Christians in Iraq. Perhaps the "neighbors" you refer to are petroleum deposits...? :chuckle:

Saddam is no different than the communists running the PRC.

Would mayhap that "different story" be the fact that the PRC could and would mete out devastating retaliation if attacked...?

 

[Flipper]

So you don't really have an issue with the PRC with its forced abortions, anti-american rhetoric, and non-state Christian persecution (not to mention communism), however you'll stand up to Iraq?

That, my friend, is moral relativism. Welcome to the club.

 

[Gerald]

Originally posted by Flipper
Riiiight. Of course, everyone opposed to theocracies will take this blatant overthrow of the Constitution lying down. Come to think of it, isn't it a US citizen's duty to violently oppose such attempts?

Of course, as there will be no ballot box to go to register our displeasure, the gun is the only alternative left.

Such a stable and safe system, we will have, racked by civil guerrilla war.

I don't suppose you'll also be legalizing automatic weapons as well, will you?

Funny you should mention that, Flip. The ACM Constitution appears to place no restrictions on what arms a citizen may own or carry...

Draw from that what you will...