11-year-old Gang-Rape Victim: Should She Be Able To Legally Abort?

[WizardofOz]

i said yes, for the life of the mother reason - which should not require a clinic visit, but a doctor visit, like it was before abortion was legal.

I consider this medical reason, not rape reason. An 11 year olds body is not developed enough for childbirth.

EXACTLY. :thumb:

What if she is 12? 13? 14?

How old must she be before you feel both lives should be protected? :think:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

I wouldn't gamble with the life of the child the Lord has already blessed us with....

And so you would play God with a secret place you don't understand, even though it's God who opens and shuts the womb, even though God forms us in the womb, even though God gave you that blessed living unborn baby, too?

You speak as though you think nothing of laying your hand on the apple of God's eye, and plucking it right out.

Where is your faith?

FYI, you should revisit the posts by doormat addressing those medical concerns.

Assuming you faced similar risks as a ten year old and you found yourself pregnant today, would you really be willing to abort over increased health risks to yourself if God blessed your womb, or would you take every precaution possible to ensure your health and the baby's survival instead?

 

[glorydaz]

And so you would play God with a secret place you don't understand, even though it's God who opens and shuts the womb, even though God forms us in the womb, even though God gave you that blessed living unborn baby, too?

It's only a "maybe baby" until it is successfully born into this world, and then the chance of it dying before it's 1st birthday is a very real possibility considering the mother's age. You would have the child go through a pregancy that would affect her own growth, put her life in danger, and then possibly deal with the death of the baby up to a year later. That is cruel and unusual punishment for the innocent victim of a horrible crime. :nono:

You people have gone too far... worshipping the unborn to the exculsion of the already born. The pendulum has swung too far and you are riding it all the way. Unborn babies die all the time...it's very common. Read these statistics instead of the ones that support your own cold heart....and factor in this is a pre-teen we're talking about.

Miscarriage Statistics Sadly, miscarriages are a very common occurrence. Sources vary, but many estimate that approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; and some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss. Although statistics can vary slightly from one source to the next, here is a general account (based primarily on information provided by the March of Dimes) of the frequency of miscarriages in the United States: There are about 4.4 million confirmed pregnancies in the U.S. every year. 900,000 to 1 million of those end in pregnancy losses EVERY year. More than 500,000 pregnancies each year end in miscarriage (occurring during the first 20 weeks). Approximately 26,000 end in stillbirth (considered stillbirth after 20 weeks) Approximately 19,000 end in infant death during the first month. Approximately 39,000 end in infant death during the first year. Approximately 1 in 4 pregnancies end in miscarriage; some estimates are as high as 1 in 3. If you include loss that occurs before a positive pregnancy test, some estimate that 40% of all conceptions result in loss. Approximately 75% of all miscarriages occur in the first trimester. An estimated 80% of all miscarriages are single miscarriages. The vast majority of women suffering one miscarriage can expect to have a normal pregnancy next time. http://www.hopexchange.com/Statistics.htm​

You speak as though you think nothing of laying your hand on the apple of God's eye, and plucking it right out.

I speak as a true mother who doesn't want the child she holds in her arms cut in half by someone who isn't the true mother. You are the one who wants to cut my child in half...putting her life, as well as the unborn's, in danger so you can claim to be "pro-life." I believe you are the child stealer, and you can't have mine. My child is LIVING.

1 Kings 3:23-26
Then said the king, The one saith, This is my son that liveth, and thy son is the dead: and the other saith, Nay; but thy son is the dead, and my son is the living. And the king said, Bring me a sword. And they brought a sword before the king. And the king said, Divide the living child in two, and give half to the one, and half to the other. Then spake the woman whose the living child was unto the king, for her bowels yearned upon her son, and she said, O my lord, give her the living child, and in no wise slay it. But the other said, Let it be neither mine nor thine, but divide it.​

Where is your faith?

Right where it should be in Jesus Christ who has given me the Comforter and the discernment to judge all things. You can dress up a little girl to look like a hooker and put her on the stage, but it's revolting to the eye. She's clearly still a child.

FYI, you should revisit the posts by doormat addressing those medical concerns.

I can google just as well as doormat. Doormat has a bias, just as you do. I can see the child standing in front of me, and I can see she is not physically prepared for pregnancy. She would be appalled at the suggestion she have a baby. Even at her age, she knows mommies are supposed to have babies...not kids. That shows a child has more brains than many of you adults.

Assuming you faced similar risks as a ten year old and you found yourself pregnant today, would you really be willing to abort over increased health risks to yourself if God blessed your womb, or would you take every precaution possible to ensure your health and the baby's survival instead?

Are you out of your mind? I would go running and crying to my mama begging her to save me. It certainly isn't a decision a child should be making or even be asked to make. :down:

 

[glorydaz]

What if she is 12? 13? 14?

How old must she be before you feel both lives should be protected? :think:

It would depend on the child and the circumstances. Raped before she even has hips or breasts should be a clue for anyone with half a brain. A girl that has willingly had sex is undoubtedly more physically mature, and that is another story entirely.

 

[Rusha]

It would depend on the child and the circumstances. Raped before she even has hips or breasts should be a clue for anyone with half a brain. A girl that has willingly had sex is undoubtedly more physically mature, and that is another story entirely.

IF you consider the unborn to be innocent and deserving of life, then the circumstance of how the mother became pregnant is not an issue.

IF you are using the exception of "threat to a mother's health" then ALL anti-abortion/prolife arguments are obsolete because all pregnancies carry risks.

 

[1PeaceMaker]

It's only a "maybe baby" until it is successfully born into this world

What is your evidence of this?

If you've ever miscarried, was that a maybe baby or a baby?

I've actually had an natural-health friendly Christian OB play God with me and condemned my wedding night conceived baby to die with a goldenseal tincture in order to rid me of a UTI when I was 18 years old. (without my informed consent - I expressly demanded baby-friendly help) She thought she was all merciful and loving and didn't care about my "maybe baby."

And I'm telling you, it didn't matter to me that it was a 5 week pregnancy when lost. I know that was a blessing from God I will see in heaven... no "maybe" about it.

You people have gone too far... worshipping the unborn to the exculsion of the already born.

False accusation, we worship the God who opens the womb and forms the unborn. We acknowledge that all children are his heritage. No ifs ands or buts, and... no worshipping of statistics and incomplete theories about human anatomy.

The pendulum has swung too far and you are riding it all the way.

This is about submission to God and honoring his heritage. That's pretty much an all or nothing proposition.

Unborn babies die all the time...it's very common.

That doesn't give you the right to shed innocent blood.

Read these statistics instead of the ones that support your own cold heart....and factor in this is a pre-teen we're talking about.

For one thing, some of those miscarriages were misdiagnosed, leading to the death of healthy unborn children. That's what happens when men disregard God's word about secret places.

Second, natural death is not unnatural violent death at the hands of worrying, faithless humans who only believe in medical intervention.

I speak as a true mother who doesn't want the child she holds in her arms cut in half by someone who isn't the true mother.

You are the one fighting for violent medical intervention.

My child is LIVING.

But not your grandchild. He would die at your own hand if you were worried about the health of his mother.

You would have raised your hand to touch the ark carried by priests and would have died due to your lack of faith.

I can google just as well as doormat. Doormat has a bias, just as you do. I can see the child standing in front of me, and I can see she is not physically prepared for pregnancy. She would be appalled at the suggestion she have a baby. Even at her age, she knows mommies are supposed to have babies...not kids. That shows a child has more brains than many of you adults.

You are delusional. My oldest girls, 11 and 13, are appalled at the ideas you and your team are spouting.

Are you out of your mind?

Cop out.

As an older adult woman, if you were facing similar odds of survival that a ten year old would with your own pregnancy, possibly conceived in rape, if that helps you, would you risk your life for your unborn child or not?

A simple yes or no will do nicely.

 

[glorydaz]

IF you consider the unborn to be innocent and deserving of life, then the circumstance of how the mother became pregnant is not an issue.

The difference between a child being raped and a teenager having consensual sex is the issue. It's not my problem that you don't know that.

IF you are using the exception of "threat to a mother's health" then ALL anti-abortion/prolife arguments are obsolete because all pregnancies carry risks.

Bull. Little girls should not be forced do what their body is not ready to do....which is provide a safe environment for a developing child.

It seems you'd rather two suffered than just one. That speaks volumes. :nono:

 

[1PeaceMaker]

It seems you'd rather two suffered than just one. That speaks volumes. :nono:

If you had two starving children, would you kill and cook the smaller, weaker one to feed the older one?

 

[Rusha]

The difference between a child being raped and a teenager having consensual sex is the issue.

NO, it's not. It's rather telling that you *believe* the right for unborn babies to live rests on how they were conceived. THAT is a pro-abortion stance.

It's not my problem that you don't know that.

It is EVERYONE'S problem who cares about the lives of the unborn that *you* pretend to be prolife but, when pressed on the issue, show yourself as only valuing the lives of those unborn whose father's are not rapist.

Bull. Little girls should not be forced do what their body is not ready to do....

That's what ALL pro-aborts accuse us of ... FORCING females to use their body against their will. Try to be a bit more original. lain:

which is provide a safe environment for a developing child.

Not when people such as yourself are advocating that rape victims should be encouraged to intentionally kill their unborn babies.

It seems you'd rather two suffered than just one.

It seems that you think so little of the unborn that you are willingly to disregard them AGAINST the *choice* of the mother. Why else would you encourage abortion?

That speaks volumes. :nono:

Yes, the fact that a few individuals have pretended to be advocates for the unborn and are just now truly showing how little regard they actually have for them DOES speak volumes. Also, your defensiveness on this thread has been duly noted.

 

[Rusha]

It seems you'd rather two suffered than just one. That speaks volumes. :nono:

If you had two starving children, would you kill and cook the smaller, weaker one to feed the older one?

Well, Glory ... would you?

 

[glorydaz]

What is your evidence of this?

Gave it.

If you've ever miscarried, was that a maybe baby or a baby?

I have, and more times than I even know about probably....as is true of all women. Yes, it was proven to be a "maybe baby" because it was never born.

I've actually had an natural-health friendly Christian OB play God with me and condemned my wedding night conceived baby to die with a goldenseal tincture in order to rid me of a UTI when I was 18 years old. (without my informed consent - I expressly demanded baby-friendly help) She thought she was all merciful and loving and didn't care about my "maybe baby."

And I'm telling you, it didn't matter to me that it was a 5 week pregnancy when lost. I know that was a blessing from God I will see in heaven... no "maybe" about it.

And I know all unborn babies will be in heaven. They're better off there than they could ever be were they born into this world.

False accusation, we worship the God who opens the womb and forms the unborn. We acknowledge that all children are his heritage. No ifs ands or buts, and... no worshipping of statistics and incomplete theories about human anatomy.

You are playing God by putting the life of the unborn over the life of the child who got raped. Pat yourself on the back all you want to over that one.

This is about submission to God and honoring his heritage. That's pretty much an all or nothing proposition.

I'm honoring His heritage by protecting my child from harm. You want to put her life in jeopardy, and make her suffer more than she already has. Law over mercy is never a pretty sight.

That doesn't give you the right to shed innocent blood.

Taking care of my child is the ultimate act of love. I'm doing it for her self-defense. The child the Lord has already given me is my first priority. She is just as innocent as an uborn baby that may never even come into this world.

For one thing, some of those miscarriages were misdiagnosed, leading to the death of healthy unborn children. That's what happens when men disregard God's word about secret places.

Second, natural death is not unnatural violent death at the hands of worrying, faithless humans who only believe in medical intervention.

I'm certainly grateful YOU aren't in charge of MY children. Unborn babies die all the time and you don't even know it. Women and babies die all the time during childbirth. The US is one of the worst developing countries in which to have a baby. Every single birth holds great risk.

You are the one fighting for violent medical intervention.

You're simply ignorant of the facts. A D&C during the RECONSTRUCTIVE surgery that would be required after the gang rape of a child is easy and safe AND the best course in such an event.

But not your grandchild. He would die at your own hand if you were worried about the health of his mother.

You would have raised your hand to touch the ark carried by priests and would have died due to your lack of faith.

No, I would be doing what mothers should do. Protect their children from every danger they may face. I have faith that the mercy of the Lord endures forever, and your ranting and raving like some zealot with a cause only proves you live according to your cause instead of mercy and grace.

You are delusional. My oldest girls, 11 and 13, are appalled at the ideas you and your team are spouting.

They have you for a mother, I'm not surprised. My granddaughter must have more brains than your girls. :chuckle:

Cop out.

As an older adult woman, if you were facing similar odds of survival that a ten year old would with your own pregnancy, possibly conceived in rape, if that helps you, would you risk your life for your unborn child or not?

A simple yes or no will do nicely.

I would take any risk for any child I ever had or would have. I don't value my own life, I value the children I have been given....those already alive and well. Break into my house, and I wouldn't defend myself, but I would fight tooth and nail for my kids.

That said, I can tell you are not a loving person, and you're a hypocrite to boot. It's amazing what one can see from reading these posts. :ha:

 

[glorydaz]

If you had two starving children, would you kill and cook the smaller, weaker one to feed the older one?

If you had two children, and a Nazi guard said you had to choose one and send the other to be exterminated, which would you choose? If you refused to choose, he grabs both. Which would you choose? Neither and let them both die? Saving both is not an option.

Yeah we can play all kinds of what ifs. An already living breathing child is not worth losing for the sake of one with very little chance to even take it's first breath. We're talking a child having a baby...not a teenager who is engaging in sex.

 

[glorydaz]

Well, Glory ... would you?

Impatient little thang, aren't ya? :chuckle:

 

[WizardofOz]

It would depend on the child and the circumstances.

What if a 12-year-old is raped and becomes pregnant? 13? 14? 15? Where do you become "pro-life" in regard to the unborn of rape victims?

Raped before she even has hips or breasts

Why did God create bodies that can become pregnant at such a young age to begin with? Did he make a mistake? :think:

If the girl's body isn't ready, she will miscarry. If her body is ready, she will give birth. It's really that simple.

should be a clue for anyone with half a brain.

:down:

A girl that has willingly had sex is undoubtedly more physically mature, and that is another story entirely.

I disagree. Her physical maturity has nothing to do with an ability to give consent. Either she is able to become pregnant or she isn't. Consent cannot be legally given until 18.

 

[Rusha]

Impatient little thang, aren't ya? :chuckle:

Not at all. What I, and several of the others on this thread who you are *personally* attacking are ... is ANTI-ABORTION ... aka protector of our future generations.

It was these very type of *arguments* that you are making that caused me to reevaluate my position on abortion over a decade ago. Ironically enough, it was pro-abortion advocate who pointed out that IF it's okay to abort unborn babies who are conceived out of rape, then we are inconsistent in the value and concern we have for unborn babies.

You are a pro-abortion advocate's perfect example of wishy-washy-only-prolife-to-punish-women thinkers.

You have not even considered the possibility that it is possible to care for both the mother and her unborn baby.

 

[Silent Hunter]

It's funny how many pro-lifers there are who want to be first in line to pull the switch to execute a criminal . . . :kookoo:

 

[WizardofOz]

It's funny how many pro-lifers there are who want to be first in line to pull the switch to execute a criminal . . . :kookoo:

:doh:
Unborn = innocent
Criminal = _________

Want to play?

 

[glorydaz]

NO, it's not. It's rather telling that you *believe* the right for unborn babies to live rests on how they were conceived. THAT is a pro-abortion stance.

I'm not pro-stupidity like you are. I wouldn't force a child to do what her body is not prepared for. That would be penalizing the victim and the unborn child.

It is EVERYONE'S problem who cares about the lives of the unborn that *you* pretend to be prolife but, when pressed on the issue, show yourself as only valuing the lives of those unborn whose father's are not rapist.

I could give a rip about the "father". My concern is for the child who is the victim....refusing to victimize her further, as you are quite willing to do.

That's what ALL pro-aborts accuse us of ... FORCING females to use their body against their will. Try to be a bit more original. lain:

Your "cause" comes before the safety and welfare of my child. So, your "cause" is evil.

Not when people such as yourself are advocating that rape victims should be encouraged to intentionally kill their unborn babies.

Self defense should always be an option. No matter what people like you say, you'd become an animal to defend your own hide.

It seems that you think so little of the unborn that you are willingly to disregard them AGAINST the *choice* of the mother. Why else would you encourage abortion?

I love all unborn babies, and I can see the Lord is getting quite a collection of them up there in heaven. I thank Him daily for sparing the babies of crankers and perverts and drunks by taking them home before they have to suffer at the hands of this wicked and perverse generation.

Yes, the fact that a few individuals have pretended to be advocates for the unborn and are just now truly showing how little regard they actually have for them DOES speak volumes. Also, your defensiveness on this thread has been duly noted.

I'm PROLIFE. The LIFE of my granddaughter first and foremost. Your "CAUSE" is producing a bunch of legalistic uncaring monsters who worship the unborn over the born. Duly note THAT.

 

[illusionray]

It's funny how many pro-lifers there are who want to be first in line to pull the switch to execute a criminal . . . :kookoo:

That's a good point except that the argument for being pro-life isn't based upon logic alone. It's based upon scripture, and so is the argument for the death penalty so there is consistency there. Having your morals based only upon human rational can yield and does yield terrible havoc in the world. In fact, logically speaking, you can justify any act of what we consider to be evil.

 

[glorydaz]

What if a 12-year-old is raped and becomes pregnant? 13? 14? 15? Where do you become "pro-life" in regard to the unborn of rape victims?

Unlike some here, I don't want to make the decisions for others. Each child is different...some mature faster than others.

Why did God create bodies that can become pregnant at such a young age to begin with? Did he make a mistake? :think:

Shall we blame Him for the growth hormones in our food? Shall we blame Him for birth defects? Shall we blame Him for sin in this world?

If the girl's body isn't ready, she will miscarry. If her body is ready, she will give birth. It's really that simple.

The five year old girl in India didn't miscarry. It is NOT that simple. When a child has a baby....if she lives through it, her cardiovascular system is attacked because of the blood flow required. Her growth is stopped because the baby is stealing her nutrients, and she will never grow to her proper stature. Her bones are not even fully developed, and she can be left with deformities she carries with her forever. Hypertension and hormonal deficiencies do not just go away when the baby is born....if it's born, it is at great of death and abnormalities. Children are not meant to have children.

I disagree. Her physical maturity has nothing to do with an ability to give consent. Either she is able to become pregnant or she isn't. Consent cannot be legally given until 18.

Most parents don't allow their children to consent to the TV shows they watch. They care enough to make important decisions for them.