ECT 10 Principles of NT eschatology

[Interplanner]

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

OK, and are you therefore trying to drive a wedge between Christ and the Spirit and the Gospel? Isn't it clear that neither are about a Judaistic theocracy, past or future? The Spirit propelled the mission of the Gospel from Pentecost forward, so...

 

[Interplanner]

There is no way to have a Judaistic theocracy unless the whole worship system is operating in that place, and there is nothing about that, past or future, in the NT.

 

[Interplanner]

At least not the NT that has the letter to Hebrews. Did I mention that it was to the HEBREWS? So if your NT does not have the letter to the Hebrews, let me know, and we'll talk about that.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

OK, and are you therefore trying to drive a wedge between Christ and the Spirit and the Gospel? Isn't it clear that neither are about a Judaistic theocracy, past or future? The Spirit propelled the mission of the Gospel from Pentecost forward, so...

Nope, just quoted a scripture from the exact same chapter you referenced, that defined the promise for you.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

At least not the NT that has the letter to Hebrews. Did I mention that it was to the HEBREWS? So if your NT does not have the letter to the Hebrews, let me know, and we'll talk about that.

Hebrews is about those who inherit the Holy City, which comes down from heaven.
It is one inheritance within the Kingdom of God.
Why would Hebrews, therefore, talk about Land and a theocracy?

Let things be what they are, and where they are, and you will not have problems.

 

[Danoh]

As expected, your response is not reasons but just insults for the simple sin of differing with you--and your books.

Which was what you did as well, o duplicitous one.

That right there confirms once more it is your double standard that stands in your way of seeing Mid-Acts.

A double-standard is the norm in your theology - you take the literal when it suits your view just as you "spiritualize" it when that fits your view.

 

[Interplanner]

Hebrews is about those who inherit the Holy City, which comes down from heaven.
It is one inheritance within the Kingdom of God.
Why would Hebrews, therefore, talk about Land and a theocracy?

Let things be what they are, and where they are, and you will not have problems.

either you are right and WE AGREE but you need to bomb Danoh with it or you do not understand a theocracy.

 

[Interplanner]

Nope, just quoted a scripture from the exact same chapter you referenced, that defined the promise for you.

Right, so it is not what they (Judaism) were expecting (Jn 11:34). They were not expecting an age in which the Gospel was taken to the ends of the earth by the Spirit using humans. That was the promised blessing. btw, you have to refer to Christ because he also says in ch 3 that it was the Seed that was promised.

 

[Interplanner]

Which was what you did as well, o duplicitous one.

That right there confirms once more it is your double standard that stands in your way of seeing Mid-Acts.

A double-standard is the norm in your theology - you take the literal when it suits your view just as you "spiritualize" it when that fits your view.

No, I mentioned 4 passages. You are the one having trouble with the Gentile outreach in Mt 4 because of your books. I am not.

 

[Interplanner]

Hebrews is about those who inherit the Holy City, which comes down from heaven.
It is one inheritance within the Kingdom of God.
Why would Hebrews, therefore, talk about Land and a theocracy?

Let things be what they are, and where they are, and you will not have problems.

Hebrews is about the end of the Old Covenant and replacing it with the reformation of the New. That theological reason is why there will never be a Judaistic theocracy again, why there does not need to be. Believers no longer have anything to do with the land. Our city is above, as in Gal 4.

 

[Interplanner]

Best to stick to interaction with these 10 propositions rather than comments on persona and style etc.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

Hebrews is about the end of the Old Covenant and replacing it with the reformation of the New. That theological reason is why there will never be a Judaistic theocracy again, why there does not need to be. Believers no longer have anything to do with the land. Our city is above, as in Gal 4.

I agree, Hebrews is about a city.
Those who lived before Christ were promised land, and they will get land, however.

 

[Danoh]

Best to stick to interaction with these 10 propositions rather than comments on persona and style etc.

Yeah, try that sometime yourself :chuckle:

 

[Interplanner]

I agree, Hebrews is about a city.
Those who lived before Christ were promised land, and they will get land, however.

that's all the "old" arrangement, my friend. None of it survives through Hebrews 7-10. To mention just one place. Try 2 Peter 3. Here is the most complete statement about the 2nd coming and there is nothing Judaic coming. Because there does not need to be. Not if Heb 7-10 or 2 cor 3-5 is true.

 

[Interplanner]

Yeah, try that sometime yourself :chuckle:

I will provided you trot out some exegesis, instead of insults.

I did try your Isaiah passages, and it's hard to believe that there are people who nit pick through the Bible and think their job is to divvy.

 

[Danoh]

that's all the "old" arrangement, my friend. None of it survives through Hebrews 7-10. To mention just one place. Try 2 Peter 3. Here is the most complete statement about the 2nd coming and there is nothing Judaic coming. Because there does not need to be. Not if Heb 7-10 or 2 cor 3-5 is true.

No - 2 Peter 3 is dealing with what happened to the following promise of His coming...

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

And what happened to it is this...

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

 

[Interplanner]

No - 2 Peter 3 is dealing with what happened to the following promise of His coming...

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

And what happened to it is this...

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

The times of refreshing did come--through the Spirit. The restoration of all things is future to be sure, but not the moment for Israel to see and participate in its true purpose, destiny, mission. That was to be missionaries to the whole world in the Gospel.

In any case, the question of what happened to the coming is not the only thing dealt with by 2 Pet 3. And, it is true that there is nothing Judaic in it. There are other things described in it than the topic of 'why the delay?'

 

[Danoh]

I am fully aware of those other things, parts of Matt. 24, which is part of the fullness that both a part of 1 Cor. 15 and Eph. 1 are summing up.

 

[Interplanner]

I am fully aware of those other things, parts of Matt. 24, which is part of the fullness that both a part of 1 Cor. 15 and Eph. 1 are summing up.

I said what I did because STP was saying 2P2P-ish things--that believers before Christ now dead would get the land at the 2nd coming, while us others would get heaven.

I don't think the scoffers of 2 Pet 3 were scoffing about Acts 3's time of refreshment, although I don't know why they would not see it, but rather about the 2nd coming. They must have missed how many times Christ said their generation was going to have to answer for it all (Mt 23:34); they must not have thought in terms of the 40 years custom.


btw for all Gospel fans, what Peter is saying in Acts 3:21 is very significant for the whole Bible. He says that the reception of Christ by heaven on behalf of sinful man has been expressed by all the prophets since the world began. There it is; it's a lot to swallow. It is what the Bible had been saying since Genesis 3, blurred by the tutorial stage of Judaism.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

that's all the "old" arrangement, my friend. None of it survives through Hebrews 7-10.

Sure it does, Christ did not annul the land promises, he introduced a new inheritance.